The wily Mr. Mugaba continues with his plans.

I understand that, constitutionally, if a member of parliament is not sworn in within 21 days of his/her election, the seat will be filled by a Presidential appointee.

That would eliminate the last electoral bone in the ZANU-PF's throat.

Blood-stained illegitimate President Mugabe under whose bankrupt and brutal rule thousands got killed, maimed or raped will one day be dragged to the International Criminal Court!

The article refers to "talks breakthrough" concerning a memo on talks about talk for peace keeps silent about the monstrous role og Mugabe in the politically motivated atrocities. History will nevertheless catch on with Mugabe and his cronies.

Remember the fate of the former Argentinian dictator??

To Stupid prem Go to hell, you stupid, shameless Fool.. Whilst progressive Zimbabweans and level headed people around the world are relieved about this all you Western puppets think of is how to scuttle the talks.... lEAVE OUR LEADER CDE MUGABE ALONE!!! TALKS ARE GOIN ON WELL..whether u like it or not!!!

DestinyK. Stop being an idiot. There is no progresion whatsover in what Mugabe regime is doing. All they are trying to do is to cover themselves against possibly trial against the killing of innocent people first during the gukurahondo and now against the MDC supporters. We all want peace in Zim but NOT with MUGABE in the picture. Unfortunately people like you are either arrogant or ignorant. You are obviously not level headed, continue barking and let the display how naive you are.

Kwacha !!! AMEN AMEN AMEN !!! Great Zimbabwe is for ever and may GOD give our president fortitude and determination to see the fight to the end and pass the stick of the relay race to ONLY a member of his team ... not one who may run in the opposite direction or do some other dastard thing . PAMBERI na va MUGABE !!

Akafunboy, it has come to my, and others on these boards attention that you seem to be very selective in your posts. I.e when faced with a question you dont like, or are backed into a corner, you simply ignore it. So when you have time, please answer the following 2 questions:

1)How can you support and condone Mugabe after he is blatantly willing to murder, beat and torture his own people to keep power, evidenced by the many murders of MDC supporters over the election period?

2)Why is Mugabe negotiating with the MDC? Why do they even care? They have a 'landslide' victory in what they perceive to be a fair poll, so what do they care what the MDC wants? Particular that they see the MDC is simply a puppet of the west, why do they feel the need to negotiate, as they see it, with the west? I thought they didnt want to be colonised again? So why negotiate?

Myself and others await your response.

Indepedent ... President MUGABE is not carrying out murders ,beatings and torture in Gt Zim no more than Mrs Thatcher was murdering any one in Northern Ireland or the Falklands or was Mr Blair killing babies and mothers in Iraq. Of course not. You are being unfair to his excellence RGM.l love and respect my president. He is my leader. You may not like him but, At the moment, he is all l have....dont you take him away.Please. Tsvangi is a full blood Zimbabwean. He may have allowed himself to make friends with devils but all hope is not lost that he will see light. Tsvangi is still learning the ropes of governance and the politic of give and take. He shoul know when to take more than give or vice versa. Thats why the government of Zimbabwe is talking to him. It is talking to its son, mwana we vu.President RGM wants to pass on the button to one who will continue running in the direction of the winning line. The American Congress ensures that the button is handed to a patriot by passing all prospective members of an administration through a third degree of GRILLING. We do the same eg we know there is a debate in the MDC and Tsvangi Re going to permit SAME SEX marriages like it is in the RSA

So what you are saying is that Mugabe is as bad as Blair for murdering babies in Iraq? Thats pretty bad. Sounds like you love Mugabe for this. What sort of person are you? That sick! You love a mass murdering genocidal maniac!

Indepedent ... President MUGABE is not carrying out murders ,beatings and torture in Gt Zim no more than Mrs Thatcher was murdering any one in Northern Ireland or the Falklands or was Mr Blair killing babies and mothers in Iraq. Of course not. You are being unfair to his excellence RGM.l love and respect my president. He is my leader. You may not like him but, At the moment, he is all l have....dont you take him away.Please. Tsvangi is a full blood Zimbabwean. He may have allowed himself to make friends with devils but all hope is not lost that he will see light. Tsvangi is still learning the ropes of governance and the politic of give and take. He shoul know when to take more than give or vice versa. Thats why the government of Zimbabwe is talking to him. It is talking to its son, mwana we vu.President RGM wants to pass on the button to one who will continue running in the direction of the winning line. The American Congress ensures that the button is handed to a patriot by passing all prospective members of an administration through a third degree of GRILLING. We do the same eg we know there is a debate in the MDC and Tsvangi Re going to permit SAME SEX marriages like it is in the RSA

Indepedent ... President MUGABE is not carrying out murders ,beatings and torture in Gt Zim no more than Mrs Thatcher was murdering any one in Northern Ireland or the Falklands or was Mr Blair killing babies and mothers in Iraq. Of course not. You are being unfair to his excellence RGM.l love and respect my president. He is my leader. You may not like him but, At the moment, he is all l have....dont you take him away.Please. Tsvangi is a full blood Zimbabwean. He may have allowed himself to make friends with devils but all hope is not lost that he will see light. Tsvangi is still learning the ropes of governance and the politic of give and take. He shoul know when to take more than give or vice versa. Thats why the government of Zimbabwe is talking to him. It is talking to its son, mwana we vu.President RGM wants to pass on the button to one who will continue running in the direction of the winning line. The American Congress ensures that the button is handed to a patriot by passing all prospective members of an administration through a third degree of GRILLING. We do the same eg we know there is a debate in the MDC and Tsvangi Re going to permit SAME SEX marriages like it is in the RSA

Indepedent ... President MUGABE is not carrying out murders ,beatings and torture in Gt Zim no more than Mrs Thatcher was murdering any one in Northern Ireland or the Falklands or was Mr Blair killing babies and mothers in Iraq. Of course not. You are being unfair to his excellence RGM.l love and respect my president. He is my leader. You may not like him but, At the moment, he is all l have....dont you take him away.Please. Tsvangi is a full blood Zimbabwean. He may have allowed himself to make friends with devils but all hope is not lost that he will see light. Tsvangi is still learning the ropes of governance and the politic of give and take. He shoul know when to take more than give or vice versa. Thats why the government of Zimbabwe is talking to him. It is talking to its son, mwana we vu.President RGM wants to pass on the button to one who will continue running in the direction of the winning line. The American Congress ensures that the button is handed to a patriot by passing all prospective members of an administration through a third degree of GRILLING. We do the same eg we know there is a debate in the MDC and Tsvangi Re going to permit SAME SEX marriages like it is in the RSA

mbeki permits same sex marriage...and he is best chums with gabbygabby?? what say ye now..and please do answer the questions posed to you by others on here. we answer your questions. What the heck are you doing in nz..a place run by colonialists??? you should be back in zimboland...not nz..dont tell us you were confused by the spelling and you thought you were in zimboland...LOL

I assume then that you are too young to remember what happened to the ZANU/ZAPU GNU, where Mugabe and ZANU managed to steal power back within a year to 18 months and relegate Joshua Nkomo to the position of a powerless 'showpiece'? I'd love nothing more than to see the talks succeed and put a true and legitimate GNU in place without Mugabe repeating his treachery against ZAPU, but do you really think he's going to do that? Probably not.

And again I see you blaming everything on the west, what you want to do is take a good look at what your precious 'cde' mugabe has done in his time in charge and start getting him to take responsibility for his own mismanagement of the country instead of 'distracting' the public with his western boogeyman stories.

i think thats were we are all getting it wrong, its not about power. its supposed to be about whats good for zimbabwe so the parliamentarians must meaningfuuly contribute when in session to issues that benefit the country and not boycott like students.to me whoever leads is acceptable as long as he/she doesnt sell our nationhood and our LAND. we want peace and prosperity in this country not a civil over leadership positions for a few people.

Thank you Rambo, at last a reasonable voice.

The problem with the Mugabe regime is that he has sold the nationhood and the land simply by not taking a long term view of the problems faced by the country itself ..... and then compounded that problem by holding onto the reins of power for too long by reverting to the tactics he used against people of all colours and creeds in the Bush War, yet when these problems are noted, he always claims them to be someone elses fault.

Just to elaborate on a few points there before the usual crew start flaming me for saying that Mugabe has sold the country:

1: He has sold the nationhood by using policies which have turned Zimbabwe from being a self sufficient and self reliant country into being a state that is now dependent on aid, charity and importation from other nations. Further to this the polices which have oppressed the population have resulted in an almost exodus level of people leaving the country by any means possible.

2: As a complimentary note to point 1, and also to your comment about power for the few, he has sold the land not for money to external sources, but to his party faithful for loyalty and power ..... these are the two things in this sort of situation that cannot realistically be bought, yet he has attempted to do so at the cost to Zimbabwe of self sufficiency.

THE WEST ! THE WEST ! WEST ! WEST ! Of course the west has its fingers in the Zimbabwean pie. Why the west would NOT leave Great Zimbabwe alone and not meddle in our affairs? For example, you always have an opinion on African countries and you force it down our throats. In 1980, you made a new flag for Zimbabwe but you forgot to take your Rhodies with you. How can you people think Rhodies would accept an African administration who they have spent twenty years slaughtering, 1960-1980. You should have had a clean break like you did in India and Egypt ... should have removed all colonising tools and baggages, including so called white farmers, and allowed the zimbabweans, of all colours, start anew in a new country. Once a Rhodie always a Rhodie lest we forgot it. Why is the west threatened by little Zimbabwe???

Now I would ask which point in here is true to what you believe, because there is a contradiction in here ..... and a small view of quite a large event.

You claim that in 1980 the whites should have left, but you also say that Zimbabweans of all colours should have been able to start anew. This does not compute, as there would be no 'all colours' if the whites had left (Whites who I hasten to add had been in country all their lives, effectively making them Zimbabweans on country name change).

I agree that the west has going concerns in Zimbabwe, Anglo American is one of the prime examples, but your aggression, as I said to aka lower down, is misdirected in two ways. You are directing it against the 'faceless west' when it should be more focussed on the governments ..... they often do not reflect the will of the people they govern. And you do not seem to acknowledge that the ZANU regime has made critical mistakes in their land reforms among plenty of other things, which have led to compound problems further down the road ..... problems which ZANU and Mugabe conveniently blame on the west to avoid having to take responsibility for them.

Also most of the old Rhodies that I have spoken to have no interest in Zimbabwe now, and the ones who would like to go back are not covered by the picture you paint, they do not expect to go back into a minority white rule system, they want to go back as equal, as people and as citizens. The other thing that is surprising about your insinuations is that hints keep getting passed around that Rhodesia was still a colony at independence in 1980, this is an untruth, Rhodesia declared UDI in 1965, splitting from Britain ..... hence the UK backed assistance that the freedom fighters received during the Bush War in the form of sanctions and trade embargos etc.

People who love Zimbabwe should not have to worry about their tribe, colour or what the country was called when they were born, and if you continue looking at how things were, you'll never be able to look ahead ..... never forget the lessons of the past, but don't let them hinder your way forward.

"White farmers" l said and not "whites per se". Most of my best friends are white ... believe me. Of course, the Zim future is yeloow. The future is bright. And no one can change that. By the way, Anlo-American is a company that is using its Capital and know-how to generate employment in southern Africa. l see nothing wrong with that !!!You are right aboutyour assertion on th FACELESS west. Point taken. Why a son or daughter of Rhodie be a PRESIDENT of Zimbabwe? Why cant the cabinet of Zimbabwe be 100% white provided they are doing good for the country. WHY NOT??? You guys should come out of the woodworks and claim your rightfull place in your land of birth. l, for one would vote for one if l agree with his politics. His or her colour is irrelevat. Rhodesia has always been u colony of the UK up to and untill 1980 ... speeches delivered by eminent people to international forums confirm this position, eg the UN. There are no tribes in Great Zimbabwe. There are SHONAs, NGUNIs and European tribes eg Italians

"White farmers" l said and not "whites per se". Most of my best friends are white ... believe me. Of course, the Zim future is yeloow. The future is bright. And no one can change that. By the way, Anlo-American is a company that is using its Capital and know-how to generate employment in southern Africa. l see nothing wrong with that !!!You are right aboutyour assertion on th FACELESS west. Point taken. Why a son or daughter of Rhodie be a PRESIDENT of Zimbabwe? Why cant the cabinet of Zimbabwe be 100% white provided they are doing good for the country. WHY NOT??? You guys should come out of the woodworks and claim your rightfull place in your land of birth. l, for one would vote for one if l agree with his politics. His or her colour is irrelevat. Rhodesia has always been u colony of the UK up to and untill 1980 ... speeches delivered by eminent people to international forums confirm this position, eg the UN. There are no tribes in Great Zimbabwe. There are SHONAs, NGUNIs and European tribes eg Italians

We'll have to agree to disagree on the colony part of that, as I see UDI from 1965 as Rhodesian Independence from Britain, just as I see the end of the Bush War in 1980 as Zimbabwean Independence from Rhodesia.

With the White farmers comment I will reassert that I believe they and their workers would have been instrumental in a sane land reallocation, and in this instance the white farmers would have still been in place, but taking an ever more minor role in the running of the farms as the next generation of owners became capable of not only running the farms, but also training others to do so. This would have mirrored what also should have happened with the industrial sector, a gradual changeover that would be eased into place without affecting the economy rather than the sudden 'shock' that has collapsed it.

I'll also state that I am not a birth Rhodie or Zimbabwean but English, I moved there with my parents in the 1970s and left in the 1980s (just after the 5th Brigade started their actions in Matabeleland, where we lived), and I can tell you that I would love nothing more than to bring my children up in a Zimbabwe that was safe for them and where they would be treated, as MLK said not "on the colour of their skin, but on the content of their character". It broke my heart to see the country I loved, and still love, descending into turmoil and government sponsored anarchy, and to have to leave because it was no longer safe (and thats quite a statement from someone who saw 3 years of a full blown Bush War living in a bush facing house outside Bulawayo).

So hopefully that gives you a little insight into why I actually care what goes on in Zimbabwe, and the reasons that I would love to see peace and freedom for the people there in my lifetime.

There is one other comment I will make to this:

Can you imagine how short a time a white presidential candidate would last in the present political climate? If ZANU are quite willing to suppress a black Zimbabwean opposition by violence, how much worse for a white Zimbabwean opposition?

Most of my friends are white aka...hahaha...that is the most commonest line trotted out by racists...timberwolf caught you out there boyo. you could not grow a pea to save your life and yet you want all the white farmers to leave the country...??? which white people get to stay then..I take it the owners of businesses would have to go as well since in your twisted little mind they would have to have stolen riches from the great zimbabwe to be that rich?? what a total prat you are...I am surprised NZ ever allowed you in to their great country!!! The day you leave NZ the national IQ level will rise significantly!

The usual boycott boy will again buck on top of an ant hill for as long as UK/US is out of picture. Wait until he is painfully pricked by his backers.

Why negotiate with someone that continues to beat and murder your own people?

Indie, get a life man! You are not even a Zimbabwean and you talk of this murder like you know it all. Zimbabweans sort out their problems without DICKHEAD know it all's like you.

Thats all well and good to say Kuba, but when you weigh up the problems that have been caused by the Mugabe/ZANU regime against the problems it has solved it doesn't look good.

Zimbabwe, compared to what it was 28 years ago when Mugabe took power is a complete wreck, and this is not the fault of the 'faceless evil western boogeyman', thats just a smokescreen to take attention away from Mugabe himself, who just won't face up to the fact that his actions have to be taken responsibility for by no one else but him.

How doyou know,bab? You were not born 26 years ago. Maybe a mere toddler.

On that point you are wrong, I saw the effects of the bush war first hand on both Rhodesian and Zimbabwean soil, and can make comments based on that. I saw the efforts of both freedom fighters who believed in their cause and were fighting for a better future for a new Zimbabwe, and Mugabe's inner circle , who were fighting for a better future for themselves without concern for the ordinary people of Zimbabwe (and look which one finally got their way, the poor state of the country should tell you that immediately).

Face the fact that Mugabe is only concerned about Mugabe, not Zimbabwe (apart from as a source of personal income, and a way to massage his ego).

Now, I've answered your point, so maybe you could state your qualification for being able to comment.

I was born and raised up in Highfield. My first taste of colonial politics was the 1958/9 bus boycotts ran by the Rhodesian Youth league ( led by George Nyandoro). I too have seen a lot.

Qualification noted and accepted, as I hope mine is :)

Now at least we both know where each other stands and can talk to each other like the adults we are

And I also have a question to raise here for both kuba and aka:

Why is it that as soon as valid points and questions are raised concerning Mugabe and ZANU PF's treatment of the Zimbabwean people and the country itself, you descend into posting attempted personal insults in posts with little to no relevant substance to the subject matter?

Its typical bullying behavior... once beaten on the intellectual front, one resorts to name calling and violence....

Kuba will never give up on the personal attacks. We have tried and tried to ask him to make valid points but its the same answer over and over again.

Thats fine by me, if he doesn't have anything beyond personal attacks to add to the conversation, it simply shows hi lack of knowledge and pure bias in the Zimbabwe political arena ..... energy and time would be better spent in that case discussing the issues with the people on the boards who have something to contribute to the issue.

INSULTING WORDS !!! No sir, l have never used such words. Actually l have questioned why people resort to such verbiage. Yes sir, l support the government of Zimbabwe and the sovereignty of Great Zimbabwe. Any self respecting people would not stand insults and an attempt to manipulate or control their affairs of State. Everything boils down to ... whose zimbabwe?, whose democracy?, whose human rights?, whose free press?, whose voting and votes?, whose country?, whose peace?. Only Zimbabweans and our neighbours eg Zambia and Mozambique can get involved .... provided they have the interests of Zimbabwe at heart. For example, his excellence President Mwanawasa was clearly NOT serving the interests of his people by his theatricals and showmanship. He may have been saying the truth but doing it the wrong way. Why did he allow himself to become the UK's puppet? Mwanawasa lost his leadership direction by sucking to Bronwn and the Anglos-international ...England, Australia, USA, New Zealand, Canada and the Rhodies wherever they are. l for one still accept Dr Mwanawasa as my leader too, for he is one of those destined to carry the banner of leadership in the SADC. I pray for his recovery.

ok, I can accept that as a personal opinion, but I would bring a couple of points to the table on this.

Firstly the comment about the Anglos, what you have to understand here is that the targets of your aggression on these points are not the countries themselves, the same as the target of my ire is not Zimbabwe, the targets are the governments, who often do not reflect the will of their people ..... and also you have to realise that the reason for the people of these countries being incensed at the situation in Zimbabwe (and the ones I'm talking about here are the Zimbabwean asylum cases and ex-Zim residents, this includes the ex-Rhodesians who want to go back out of love for the country and not the regime) is that seeing the oppression and destruction within Zimbabwe since independence (and most of the legitimate commentors still get news from first hand sources rather than biased press on either side) brings them together in much the same way as UDI in 1965 brought the freedom fighters out, and brought them together with the good of Zimbabwe at heart.

While I support the government of Zimbabwe, I do not support the ruling party or their leader because they have proved that they only have their own interests and not the interests of the country at heart. Dr Mwanawasa was not only courageous, but also, I believe, correct in his condemnation of RGM ..... for the simple fact that RGM has come to believe his own hype as a hero of the liberation struggle, yet refuses to (and has done for a long time) act like the hero he is perceived to be, or take responsibility for his own actions, preferring to lay a smokescreen of hatred against the people of the west to cover up his mistakes.

As a final point, I will answer your question of 'Whose Zimbabwe?', and you will probably not like my answer ..... Zimbabwe belongs to no-one but Zimbabwe, and anyone who has the country in their heart should have a place there without expectation of favour or fear of persecution ..... Black, White, Ndebele, Shona, Rhodesia born or Zimbabwe born should not matter ..... Look to the future, not to the past.

And just to put a subnote on this I am going to quote one of history's great men, and as a white, it will probably surprise some people that I think this because the quotes are from Martin Luther King.

"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.""

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Words that should have been spoken a long time before they were in the US are now fully relevant in Zimbabwe

Indeed l am beginning to like your thinking. Yes sir L too do not support ZANUpf per se but l love my country and l support the effort RGM has put into Zimbabwe. He is my president and l have respect for his leadership just Zambians or Tswanas love their heads of government. That said ... a lot of mistakes have been done by his government. For goodness sake, these guys were RAW and NEW to management of a complex country like Great Zim. Some of them could not even run their own families let alone a country. It was a mess from the word go ... there is no doubt.To a large extend, l blame the Rhodies for abandoning ship at time they should have stayed on board and made sure that the new crew does not run the ship aground I have a very very big admiration for the Boers in South Africa for staying put. I can see a day, in the very near future, when a White south African can become the State President of RSA. The masses are already beginning to realise that the current gvt lack the "kick" to deliver economic governance as distinguished to political slogans eg umshini wame of Zuma. In the case of Harare, for example, one weekend a senior minister would tell a gathering of supporters, "you are going to get 15% pay increase at the end of the month". How could companies be ordered to pay more than their income allowed?? This would mess up the fiscal plans of any viable firm or organisation.RGM was surrounded by hyenas, criminals and dog-eat-dog TSOTSIs. Most of these rats have jumped ship and claiming asylum status and blaming it on RGM. I feel sorry for Tsvangi, for though misguided, he is a well meaning person, l think. Tsvangi is going to meet his Waterloo when faced by these same Zim foxes, hyenas and criminals who have swelled his organisation. As for RGM, as person he is very considerate but,naturally, as a politician RGM is ruthless. Show me a politician who is not.

ok, now I can see this going somewhere, we've finally found some common ground.

As you say, ZANU and RGM were indeed raw, but the problem wasn't that the Rhodies jumped ship (as someone who was there at the time I can say this as a certainty) although a lot of them did head out because of Mugabe's actions during the bush war ..... perceived from a Rhodesian point of view, Mugabe had been the enemy for that long that they could not consider staying in a country where they literally hated the man who was in charge, not because his regime was non white, but because they hated the man himself.

The real problem was that RGM would not take advice from the people who were experienced in the management of the country ..... he always had to have his own way at whatever cost.

In the 1980s he placed his own people into the industrial management sector, displacing the people who could have trained the next generation of industrial leaders up into those positions, and the result was the collapse of quite a large portion of the industrial base.

In the 1990s he did exactly the same with the farm reallocations with the result that the food production of Zimbabwe collapsed.

But instead of reviewing these mistakes and saying 'ok, this has turned out bad, what can we do to solve it?' he maintains that it's always someone elses fault, and while he carries on blindly doing this there can never be an improvement. What needs to happen is for RGM and the ZANU leadership to take responsibility for the mistakes that have been made, to say 'this is the fault of our policies, let's change the policies', or alternatively step aside and let someone in who is going to at least try to help Zimbabwe without trying to blame everything on the mysterious western demons, someone who is willing to take the blame and then look for a way to solve the problems that their decisions cause.

oops, posted that before I'd put a little addition into it:

Quote from previous post

"In the 1980s he placed his own people into the industrial management sector, displacing the people who could have trained the next generation of industrial leaders up into those positions, and the result was the collapse of quite a large portion of the industrial base.

In the 1990s he did exactly the same with the farm reallocations with the result that the food production of Zimbabwe collapsed."

Addition:

So over the space of 15 to 20 years, he near enough completed a system which should have taken around double that time to put into place, and had he taken the advice he was given at the beginning this could have been done without anything but the odd minor ripple in the economy ..... rather than the complete economic meltdown we see today.

Kube... you sound a bit grumpy thismorning. Did your electric blanket not work for you last night? I hear its a cold winter in NZ this year. I hope you'll be ok.

He can always do the Kiwi thing and sleep with a sheep!haha

stop it...you guys are killing me..ha ha. i have just stopped laughing at the laughable akafunny and now you are having a chortle at his expense...ha ha ha. see how mwanasa is now his hero..a few weeks ago he was a puppet of the west for condemning mugarbage...it is futile engaging with akafunny..for all we know he is a patient in a nuthouse with access to the net and we are tying up our valuable time arguing with him. I will leave him to this lunacy now. he cant answer a single question, but is ready to call names when anyone disagrees with him. I will forever wonder why he is living an unhappy life in nz when he could be sharing the economic success that zim is today under his beloved RGM and being policed by the CIO.