Business Day (Johannesburg)
30 July 2008
BARRING last-minute changes, President Thabo Mbeki will visit Zimbabwe today for crucial meetings with that country's main political parties and their leaders involved in power-sharing talks, in a bid to clear hurdles to a final agreement.
[ See Article ]
Hey its a pity some people want the crisis in Zim to continue. People are sufering and the best way is the talks. there is no winner takes all in politics, in anything. The talks are a great opportunity to get Zimbabwe on track. And the words like you have just said are inconsiderate to the people who are facing problems on the ground. Be sure of one thing, if talks stall, Mugabe and Tsvangirai will be the last to feel the effects. dont be ignorant....politricks is just that tricks...
The majority of Zimbabweans have voted for MDC to assume power.
If Mbeki is going to Harare to squeeze Mugabe to accept the symbolic post of non-exec President to make room for MDC to occupy the executive post of PM, so far so good. Mbeki's help will thus be immensely invaluable in implementing the respect of the will of the majority in Zimbabwe.
Can he circumvent the tricks of the shrewd and cumming Mugabe? It is indeed in Mugabe's interest to bow down. But can this hardheaded tyrant see the writings on the wall? His cronies surrounding him in their last battle to save their own skin are perhaps overshadowing his view to the extent that he cannot see beyond the tip of his nose!!
A nose that may soon start to bleed under the imminent accession of Zuma to the helm in SA.
One can understand Mbeki's frenetic efforts to save the situation in Zimbabwe. But should he not have acted years earlier, which would have saved millions of Zimbabweans from roaming the streets in Jo'burg?
Mbeki's efforts to save Al-Bashir is not comprehensible to commoners in Southern Africa. His comments that there was no crisis in Harare stuuned the world and allowed murderous Mugabe to steal the run off elections. In return for the Chinese backing him at the UN against sanctions against Mugabe, he gives the impression that he is now thanking the Chinese in the Al-Bashir case of genocide!
Will Mugabe now come to the rescue of Mbeki's flawed image? has Mugabe ever been magnanimous with anybody except his cronies?
Will Mugabe come to the rescue of Mbeki by sacrificing his thirst for clinging to illegitimate power?
May be not! Like millions of Zimbabweans, I wish Mugabe rescues Mbeki by giving credibility to Mbeki's various statements that talks were in progress; that Mugabe steps down from holding executive power.
Anything less will put back the wheel of progress not only in Zimbabwe but across Africa. instead of struggling to promote development and prosperity on the continent, we will continue to spend precious times defending criminals like the lot of Mugabe, Al-Bashir, etc.
Our sons and daughters are already restless. There is a limit to patience. Let's all hope Mbeki will succeed to salvage the situation in Zimbabwe the way the majority has already pronounced itself.
Mbeki is as corrupt as the rest of them. Can the world not see that he is favour of the Zanu-PF regime. We all know the history of him and Mugabe and the family ties that bind them together. Surely the right thing for him to have done was to make sure that the Dictator in Zimbabwe (Mugabe) was removed from power due to the highly illegal and contraversial elections that took place. We are all going on about that crazy Karadzic going to the Hague for the atrocious war crimes he committed. Surely Mugabe should also go on trial for the blood he has shed in order to stay in power. He is nothing but a thug and a villain, but with people like Mbeki on side, praising him, what are the chances of that ever happenning. We all wonder why Africa is like it is? Well, we have the answer right before us...
Mugabe continues to be one of Africa's greatest embarrassments and shames. This entire process (of renegotiating a stolen election) can be summed up in one phrase; "I want to continue stealing". Anything or anyone that gets in the way will be steamrollered, killed, dispatched, fudged, lied about, lied to, negotiated to death, dismissed or just ignored. What a complete waste of an opportunity. The best (or worst) part of the situation is that Zim's money, with bills now into the hundreds of billions, are used as a joke on international television. All the world can laugh at the desperation of the Mugabe regime to keep up the ring of theft, yet no one, absolutely no one, including the increasingly-complicit Mbeki, will actually do anything forceful about it.
This post was deleted because it contravenes AllAfrica's commenting guidelines.
Please wake up cde Akafunde1! Join us in denouncing the rottens of today who want at all cost to cling to power illegally.
Don't wait for freedom loving people to come to your rescue until after you witness Mugabe and thugs kill, maim or rape your wife, daughter or sister. Sorry, it's a very blunt way put it. 5 million Zimbabweans like you had to seek refuge in SA just because they do not want to get crushed under the terror of murderer Mugabe.
You concede he has murdered and butchered. Join us and be by the side of those whose hearts are bleeding.
Mugabe has innumerable tricks and schemes to fool people around, even Mbeki. So I am not surprised that you too has fallen prey of his crocodile charm!!
Just wait and see how he is going to unleash his thugs should Tsvangirai rejects his offer for the position of 3rd VP. Today, Mugabe has already guven a glimpse of his intention to introduce s state of emergency should retailers overcharge customers.
Cunning he is indeed! The emergency is not against retailers, it is just to terrorise MDCs into accepting his offer. Mbeki is being circumvented in his efforts to squeeze Mugabe.
How naive were Mugabe and his currency manager when they introduced billion Dollar notes? Didn't they know then that even some sophisticated calculators cannot handly figures in billion??
God-annoited Mugabe has perhaps lately become senile. Don't you think the Central Bank governor Gono knew about the limits of calculators! He executes diligently whatever Mugabe dictates and he was no fool to bring Mugabe to reality until the reality caught everybody.
Don't wait until you get drowned with Mugabe's blunders to call for solidarity. We are there already and we want to accompany all freedom and justice loving Zimbabweans in their quest to get rid of tyrants and murderers in the hope that the country could be put back to genuine recovery.
In that case STOP forthwith denouncing Bush and Blair for all the kids and women they have killed in iraq etc...because in your twisted little murderous mind...they are GREAT men!!! you are a disgrace to africans...I hope you are not in daily contact with foreigners for they will all and one walk away convinced that Africans are THICK murdering thugs!!!!
Matin in Canada...a great post...please keep your common sense posts flowing and ignore these boneheads on here who will justify rape to make RGM(as they laughingly call the little thug) look saintly!!!!
Sooooooooooo, what you are saying is that because it is politics that it is ok to murder and torture your own people ..... and judging by the wording of your post thatv is exactly what you have said ..... How lucky we are not to live in Zimbabwe if your thoughts on the world are so narrow and cold.
I think it is you who ought to grow up and realise that governments ought to be in place to serve their countries, not the other way round (and yes I am part of groups in my own country trying to get the same idea passed as law)
I think that the political situation is less like your description of water and more like the true description of fire politics ..... No matter what you do as an individual, we'll burn your fingers'
There is nothing to be ashamed of in statesmanship, but Mugabe is no statesman, he is a Mugabeite, thinking of nothing but what he perceives to be 'The Great' Mugabe and his nests abroad.
Talks talks and talks. How about this new angle of things. Mbeki has mining interest in Zim acquired through dubious deals with Bob. So the coming in of MDC means reversal of these deals and he loses out, but if Bob stays another 5 or so years Meki benefits. So is Mbeki a facilitator or Mugabe's emissary? Otherwise how dou you explain the eventual offloading of arms and transportation to Zim assisted by Mbeki? Just check with guys with inside knowledge of Zimbabwe's armoury and they will tell you there are new stocks available!
tricks... They say empty vessels....Shut up if you have nothing to say. If Mbeki rightly has mining interest in Zimbabwe is that a crime? Why would the MDC reverse that if he is legally registered to operate in Zim? By the way did you transport the amoury to Zimbabwe how could they have missed the ever catching eye of prem? be serious. And for prem my friend the MDCT had 100 seats, ZANU PF 99 and MDC 10 seats with one seat going to an idependent. Please for your record treat the MDC-T and MDC Mutambara led as different entities thats why they are both represented seperatley on the talks. So where ever you are getting the idea that the people of Zim voted MDC into power l do not get it. Zimbabwe has 2 chambers(the lower and the upper)For the record ZANU PF leads the upper house by 6 seats. We want talks to continue this divide and rule that the west is using in our country should be put to shame. Where the hell do you get your figures from? 5million people is SA? If you can come up with more than a million Zimbos in SA l will respect you.
Chiki,
What tricks is saying is that Mbeki has a conflict of interest in these negiations which should rule him out of mediation. Same reason why auditors cant audit accounts which they have a vested interest in.
I'm sorry I have to explain this to you. You clearly arent all that smart.
I have been taking note of whatever you have been saying and what I have discovered is that some of you guys are not at easy to give in to facts. Please try to just ignore your political afiliations and follow the reasoning of your fellow countrymen. This is important because it will help us to dig the root cause of our predicament. this response is however directed mostly to Zanu-afiliated ones.
What conflict of interest? Zimbabwe will still be Zimbabwe even if another president takes over. Will that change ownership of a company? only unless it operates behind gvnt's set guide lines. Anyway can he substatiate his claims? Our country has been hit by such kind of false reporting with the aim of demonising our severeign nation. Maybe because Bush had interests in Iraq and had an influence in lying to the whole world about weapons of mass destructions, you think every other humain being is like him. Mbeki is a man of intergrity he needs all the support we can give him to make a break through.
Chiki wrote "Zimbabwe will still be Zimbabwe even if another president takes over. ". Nonsense. The entire country will be available for sale soon, Chiki, to foreign interests with the most money. One may have a load of territory, but if one does not control it because the government has allowed it to be sold off, its riches transferred to foreign interests, its future diminished, its obligations multiplied onto great-grandchildren, its citizens only given starvations foods and the plight of desperation for their future, exactly what will it mean to be there in Zim, to be called "citizen"? It won't be worth squat, Chiki, and that will be a tragic shame. Mugabe and his tribe will be to blame, because Zim used to be a net exporter of food, and provisioner of hope to millions. Now ... well now, Chiki, it is neither of the above. Mugabe has ruined it, and got rich off your future, and the futures of your grand-children. And no one, to be very blunt, no one has the courage to get rid of him. He's playing with you, and you're falling for it.
Martin in Canada, you are full of white anglo shit. Africa has moved away from anglo Britain, nor do most of us care about your kind. Zimbabwe will survive and move on without you Peter the "Southern Rhodesia boy". Say what ever you want to say....I know you are prejudiced, biased and absolutely not wanted in Zimbabwe.
The Western world is not a player in African politics now. Even the G-8 deferred the talks to President Mbeki. Especially the British, they are absolutely not welcome anymore.
China will invest $80 Billion in building power plants in Nigeria, Ethiopia, Ghana and DRC, it is not the British doing it! Britain cannot afford any real development aid anymore, it is China that has the money and has won the hearts of Africans.
What is left of the British now is increasingly miss using the veto-power at the UN and being a Lap dog for the USA! Seriously, what is left of the UK? It is projected that within 10 - 15 years the UK will drop out of the 20 largest economies of the world... Africa also sensenses THAT the momentum away from the UK is already taking place. SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT AND WHO THE HELL CARES!!!!!
up on the wrong side of the bed thismorning Phiri?
Ah, Ah , Ah Phiri, I look forward along with you to the next Chimarenga when you must fight your new Chinese master for Kwacha , Uhuru or what ever you call it ! Where will you get the the barrel of the gun ? This time it will be pointed at you by you old friends and new masters. They will scoop up Zimbabwe , dust bowl that it is , take control of what little is left and Ah Ah Ah , poor Phiri, again you will be a slave but not to easy people like the foolish Rhodesians but to what you see in Tibet and Tianemen square. Hambe Gashle Mr. Phiri and good luck with the next chimarenga !
Chiki, let me think. If someone gives me £1 million and then asks me to mediate between him and another person over the ownership of a car, do you think that is a conflict of interest or not? The car is still going to be there...
and whether it is 5 million or 1 million or 10 Zimbabweans seeking refuge from Mugabe it doesnt matter, the point is that Zimbo's ARE seeking refuge from a brutal regime. You cant deny this.
believe what ever you want to believe, the fact on the ground is those illegal sanctions imposed by the chaotic US president are hurting us and those seeking refuge in neighbouring countries are running away from them.and whether it is 5 million or 1 million or 10 Zimbabweans the fact still remains the same...illegal sanctions talking of being smart? you are all the same
So no zimbabweans have left due to the violence imposed by Mugabe and his thugs on the MDC supporters during the "election"?
As for the 'illegal sanctions' by the US. The US has only refused to lend money to Zimbabwe. Just like China has, just like South Africa has. So either you blame China and South Africa as well, or you start to realise the truth of the matter, which is the economy of Zimbabwe has been destroyed by Mugabe. Great freedom fighter. Poor mananger of an economy.
Well, well, Chiki - come back to your senses!
You admit that Mugabe's reckless regime has driven one million of your countryfolks to neighbouring countries. And you do not express any distress about this tragedy? Kindly soften your human side a bit to express horror that so many had to leave their motherland for their safety when their government was entrusted with effectively protecting their life. And at the same time people would appreciate it if you would pledge henceforth to show solidarity with victims of undemocratic regimes.
As regards the weight of the political parties, your figures are correct to the extent that you disregard the votes of those who ran away abroad and who would have voted one or the other MDC. In short, under free and fair conditions and in the effective presence of the million refugees, Mugabe would have been wiped off the political scene.
You now understand why Mugabe unleashed his thugs, the Army and the Police.
Mugabe is today talking about having recourse to a state of emergency! Against retailers? Who will believe that?
From another angle, how on earth people can re-vote for a party in power that has engineered inflation of 2.2 million per cent this year? What people argue is that many voters were terrorised to vote for Mugabe.
You may deny it today, but it will form part of the history to be taught in Zimbabwe schools tomorrow. I would rather rely on the children of today to act decisively tomorrow to ensure people like Mugabe and cronies could only be found in wax meusums across cities in a prosperous Zimbabwe.
Hurry up, change your heart and join us in supporting those brave Zimbabweans who are relentlessly struggling to make the country a pleasant place in which to live and prosper without walking on the toes of others.
Why do you read in between the lines? what l said was all those people who run into neighbouring countries are running away from the illegal sanctions imposed by the chaotic US president. And all this time l have been trying to tell you the west have interest in our country and by imposing their chosen president to the Zimbabweans they will achieve their goal. Thanx alot martin in canada read this "The entire country will be available for sale soon, Chiki, to foreign interests with the most money. One may have a load of territory, but if one does not control it because the government has allowed it to be sold off, its riches transferred to foreign interests, its future diminished, its obligations multiplied onto great-grandchildren, its citizens only given starvations foods and the plight of desperation for their future, exactly what will it mean to be there in Zim, to be called "citizen"? It won't be worth squat, Chiki, and that will be a tragic shame" l like this paragraph it says it all. Now who has a mortive to cause economic hardships in our country. The real truth is slowly coming out
Chiki, the person who has the most to lose is YOU. And the person who has the most to gain is Mugabe. Your inflation is not his inflation ... your money is his money, but not vice-versa. Wake up, friend, and see that you're being sold down the river by a former inspiration who has become dangerous dictator. Zim is screwed whilst he is around. The world's sanctions are entirely legal, Chiki ... Canada, the US, the Europeans, China, none has to lend the gov't. of Zim any money ... why willingly feed the alligator? those governments know that thier actions will hurt you, but it is the only way, short of invasion, that the world can encourage normal Zim citizens to finally toss this SOB out on his ear. Zim will not be free until it is, at minimum, free of Mugabe and anyone who thinks like him. Tribalism and cabalism is dangerous for the entire country, Chiki. And, frankly, the continuation of this sordid, tasteless drama makes ALL Africans look bad, including SA.
Chiki,
You poor soul. You really have been brainwashed havent you. People are running away from Zim because they fear for their lives because of Mugabe beating and murdering MDC supporters to keep power. And also because the economy has been led to ruin by your hero mugabe. As I say above, the illegal sanctions you talk of is purely the US refusing to lend Zim money, just like China and South Africa also refused. So blame China and South AFrica too. OR realise that Mugabe has destroyed the economy by destroying the productivity of farms by giving them to ministers who cant farm. Give them to the farmers who can farm!
And I think you'll find that Tsvangarai is chosen by Zimbabeans as well as the west... remember the result of the first election? The one where intimidation wasnt an issue?
"the illegal sanctions you talk of is purely the US refusing to lend Zim money, just like China and South ..." lndie are you crazy? Are you telling me that ZISCO,MMCZ,and Even Fidelity who are the newest members of the so called US sanctions have been looking for money from the US. Why would they block these companies from trading with whomever they want to? Read the US Zimbabwe democracy bill. Just look at the irony of it MDC supporters running away from President Mugabe travel all the way to our borders and have their passports stamped by the imigration officials. If our President really was after those people would he then sit and watch? Don't spread the western propaganda use logic if your brains won't work.
Chiko, I'll try and keep this simple so you can follow.
You said "what l said was all those people who run into neighbouring countries are running away from the illegal sanctions imposed by the chaotic US president."
And I said that you need to include China and South Africa in these sanctions as these countries also have refused to lend Zim money. The more recent sanctions on Zim businesses have not caused people to run into neighbouring countries as you assume. The real reason is due to the intimidation of the MDC voters forcing them to leav the country as its not safe there for them.
You really need to consider your logic carefully, becuase clearly its lacking. Let me explain why.
Mugabe wanted as many MDC people as he could to not vote for the MDC. Hence intimidating them to vote for ZANU PF. From his point of view, the more people from the MDC that flee into neighbouring countries the better for him and the less votes he has to try and turn around. So hence stamping passports happily as they leave.
This really is quite basic chiko, I'm surprised its confusing you.
so why then does he earn the name Murderous Mugabe if he smiles to see people leave the country. They are our brothers and sisters not our enermies and are free to leave within and any other part of the world they choose to live in.
Why Murderous Mugabe? Well... it could be because he ordered the genocide of approx 20,000 Ndebele people to crush an uprising in the 1980's. But hey... "They are our brothers and sisters not our enermies"
Or it could be the becuase of the massive levels of violence that led to over 100 MDC supporters being murdered during the last election. But hey... "They are our brothers and sisters not our enermies"
And people arent always free to live in any part of the world they choose. Can you go live in russia or the US? I doubt it. And some people dont have the money it takes to leave 1 country and set up in another...
Oh, the best one is that any Zimbabwean coming to certain western countries will be set up automatically as a refugee ..... enjoying the best that the host country has to offer.
Sounds like a real disgusting situation to me chiki, putting up your enemies as friends ..... or if you look at it more closely and drop the anti-west crap ..... putting up HUMAN BEINGS because they are on the run from HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.
But of course you won't see this will you Chiki, because your view has been blinkered to anything that shows the west to be anything but 'EVIL'
Get a life, and think about what you're 'saying' before you actually 'speak'
Chiki, You're doing a good job against this one-note gang. Their alleged great concern for the welfare of Zimbabweans is as phony as a $3.00 bill. I've noticed that they don't answer your questions but simply repeat the same tired old propaganda line that they have learned to repeat ad nauseam. Only a liar or fool would keep trying to pass off the line that there are no sanctions against Zimbabwe that are devastating to the economy of the country.
djoser35 please do not act like lunatic Mugabe, a national dis-grace!!
Ask yourself why the monster invited the sanctions if he had the higher interest of his country folks at heart? Indeed he was busy filling his own pockets and those of his cronies and ensuring he holds to power with their monstrous collusion and acts against innocent Zimbabweans.
Lunatic Mugabe thought until very recently that he was the centre of the world, and that targetted sanctions against his regime would boomerang against the WEST itself! Mbeki seems to have brought him to some senses in that he is discovering his own wealth, amassed illegally on the back of the widespread sufferings of Zimbabweans, would soon be the subject of confiscation should he not exit honourably!
If sanctions are hitting people like you, you better ask lunatic Mugabe explain why he did not do anything to protect folks like you. Can't you recall that South Africans under apartheid had resolved to bear with sanctions for a short time and thereafter enjoy the fruits of freedom.
Are you so coward not to bear with the sanctions for a while in order to guarantee that NEVER EVER individuals like monstrous Mugabe could assume power? Bring out your bravour in honour of the millions of your country folks Mugabe has caused to seek refuge elsewhere so that tomorrow your own sons and daughters could live in peace.
djoser35 please do not act like lunatic Mugabe, a national dis-grace!! Ask yourself why the monster invited the sanctions if he had the higher interest of his country folks at heart? Indeed he was busy filling his own pockets and those of his cronies and ensuring he holds to power with their monstrous collusion and acts against innocent Zimbabweans. Lunatic Mugabe thought until very recently ..."
prem, I promise, if you'll promise not to act like lunatics Bush/Blair! If you'll recall the whole conflict escalated when monster Blair reneged on the Lancaster Agreements which involved who was monetarily responsible for the redistribution of land to the rightful owners, i.e., the indigenous African people of Zimbabwe. After nearly twenty years of little change in the land ratio and with the "natives getting restless", Mr. Mugabe and his government were forced to do what any responsible leader would do, act in the interest of the country's past exploited majority. This lead to 300,000+ of Mr. Mugabe's landless cronies becoming owners of part of the land taken from them when the colonists ruled. Of course, as one would expect, the former colonist would elicit their friends and come up with all kinds of plans to reverse this action for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is the feared "domino effect" which caused former colonists in Asia to attempt to hold on to, at the cost of many lives, what they formerly controlled there to no avail. Thus, in Zimbabwe we have the sanctions which were designed to "make the economy scream" and the resulting voting out of off ZANU-PF for a more compliant "leader" who would be heralded as "a good African leader" (one who serves the interest of foreigners over his own people). However, since this did not occur as scripted, more sanctions and propaganda along with the solicitation of other "good Africans" are in order. If this doesn't work, the next stage will probably be an attempt to cause unrest in the country. All this in the name of "spreading democracy". When you think about it all this really makes you question who the real monsters/lunatics are here, doesn't it? Is it the tiny country with only a few visible friends, fighting hard not to be dominated by foreign super powers or those same foreign super powers with unlimited economic and military resources trying to force their will on anyone who is too weak to stand up to them?
dLoser, you really are a poor deluded fool arent you...
Not nearly to the degree that you are, aWorthless.
As opposed to coming from a racist in denial like you, huh?
yeah... I'm racist for caring that the people of Zimbabwe have been beaten, murdered, raped and tortured by people like you. You really need to take a good look at yourself eh. You're a disgrace to humanity. You're happy to see Mugabe and his thugs beat maim and kill your brothers and sisters to keep power. How do you condone that sort of behavior? Seriously, racist pigs like you are the scum of the earth.
Yeah right, you care about as much for the people of Zimbabwe as I care about your phony lying douche bag ass. What you care about is trying to steal from others while claiming to be concerned about their welfare. What a pathetic pos you are. Where's your concern about the people around the world who are suffering because of greed by people like you. There are thousands being maimed and killed every day all in the name of "democracy" and "human rights" by fraudulent, lying assholes like yourself and the only thing you can do is post inane lies about Zimbabwe. The sooner the world is rid of lying, greedy garbage like you the sooner there will be harmony in Zimbabwe and elsewhere.
you mean the sooner you get rid of people like me, the sooner you can rape beat and murder the rest of your populaton into submission.
Seriously, why do you condone and support a leader who has blatantly beaten, murdered and raped your brothers and sisters to keep power? Can you answer me this?
So you deny that MDC Supporters were murdered by Zanu PF supporters during a campaign of intense intimidation by Mugabe? Well, I guess that speaks for itself. This just shows that you have zero credibility.
"So you deny that MDC Supporters were murdered by Zanu PF supporters during a campaign of intense intimidation by Mugabe? Well, I guess that speaks for itself. This just shows that you have zero credibility."
What I'm saying, and what you seem to be too thick or dishonest to accept is that "Mugabe" had no more to do with these alleged murders than Bush, Brown, and western sanctioned "good African" leaders have do with murders and intimidation committed in their own countries. The fact that you and others keep pumping this lie shows that you, not me, have zero credibility. To give you a prime example, when the Zimbabwean Olympic team came on field Friday night the western media (lying propagandist) could not resist putting out a total lie about Mugabe and his non-attendance at the opening. This lie, as read by a NBC TV (US) announcer, claimed that Mugabe had attempted to attend the opening ceremony but got only as far as Hong Kong where he was stopped by Chinese officials. Notwithstanding the fact that credible news sources in southern Africa were reporting that Mr. Mugabe was due to be meeting with Mr. Mbeki regarding the negotiations that were going on trying to resolve the political and economic problems caused primarily by western interference and sanctions. In fact, it had already been reported earlier in the week that Mugabe would not attend the opening ceremony because of the negotiations. This is just one small example of who really has zero credibility, western media and their acolytes.
Well if there were free and fair elections and people werent murdering people to keep power, and people werent so arrogant to think that only God could remove them, then there wouldnt be a need for sanctions now would there. Mugabe only has himself to blame.
For God so Loved Zimbabwe that he gave his only Begotten Mugabe that who ever votes for him shallnot perish,but have everlasting poverty.
Mugabe leave Zimbabwe you are old my dear
You may want to look through these threads dj, because it seems your selective vision is as poor on here as it is to the situation in Zimbabwe.
Most of the posts that go unanswered are directed at a few certain people (mainly you, aka, chiki and others on, as you seem to perceive it' your 'side of the fence'), so if you're going to complain about perceived non answering of questions and repeating of a one line argument, look to yourself first.
djoser and chiki, it is a real pleasure to witness the gradual sea change on these and many other boards that no longer allows and accepts the wholesale condemnation of Mugabe and Zanu-PF without question.
What Zimbabwe's detractors now find, on message boards, in foreign media, and most importantly in international political arenas, is that they are being questioned as to their motives and goals at every turn. The world is beginning to focus on Zimbabwe and the more they do so with critical eyes, the stronger Mugabe's, Zanu-PF's and SADC's case becomes as the truth behind non-African attempts at intervention becomes increasingly apparent.
Keep it up, Britain and the US! You're doing a great job in educating the world as to your real motives and malicious intentions.
Selector, why do you so conveniently forget the violence and intimidation unleashed on your Zimbabwean brothers and sisters leading to the murder of over 100 MDC supports, the beatings of thousands more, the displacement of 10's of thousands more? Does it not mean anything to you that Mugabe has beaten his own people, your brothers and sisters, into submission? How can you condone and support this sort of behaviour?
Selector you are certainly a major part of causing that change with the great posts that you make. Unfortunately I don't have the time that I would like to try to counter their massive lying campaign on these boards against the strong leadership of Zimbabwe fighting to govern themselves without interference from Empire West.
good come back dLoser. Think of that yourself? your wit astounds me. Should you be out beating and murdering Zimbabweans?
Actually aWorthless, I should out looking for people like you to take out since it's your kind who create about 90% of the problems in the world with your insatiable greed.
I'd rather you try and take people like me out. I dont at all feel threatened by a little scum bag like you. Its the poor people of Zimbabwe that thugs like you beat, torture, rape and kill that need the help.
Selector, I have to ask this, and if it offends you, I apologise.
Why on one hand do you open up to a reasonable and constructive discussion on the current situation on Zimbabwe, yet on the other you praise the ones that keep the destructive and race related arguments going?
You have shown that you have a high intelligence, and that you are willing to look at ways forward, but you also show the traits of these people who are trapped in a time long gone ..... I know that forgetting the past is not an option, as that would erase the lessons learned, but surely you can see that the people on here who actually want to make a difference are being stifled to an extent by the racists and warmongers (on both sides of the fence), and this can only lead to stalemates and escalations ..... hopefully never progressing past the boards and onto the ground (however likely that is by reading some of the posts on here).
Surely getting a group of people together who can discuss the ways forward without resorting to attributing blame would be better than arguing ad infinitum.
Don't be asking for free handouts from the rest of us in the world as you lot always do, stopping blaming everyone but yourselves and that devious bunch in Harare. You critisise the rest of the world but what have you done for anyone ? Why must others always be to blame for you being useless yet you use westerners media and medium , go get your tight skin drum and pound out a message. I am sick of paying extra taxes to feed 'poor africa". You had your Uhuru for 28 years and still you have nothing. Nyerere told Bob he was inheriting a jewel in Africa, what did he do ? Sell it to the highest bidder and now you morons blame hardworking people in the western world for you self inflicted woes ? So suck an egg and "Hang" on your hardly fought for land ! Chiki , I want to congratulate you on being very Chiki but are you peeping again ?
This is not going to solve Zimbabwe's problems, just postpone them to the next election. Have we not learnt anything from the ZANU-PF/PF-ZAPU saga. Mugabe silences the opposition by killing them, then making a peace offering until he is threatened with loss of power. The MDC should pull out of the talks, the rot will take care of Mugabe as he runs out of money and options.