Lunatic Mugabe has dug his own grave by causing millions of his country folks to seek refuge in countries across the world! One can come across Zimbabwean refugees in such diverse countries as Belize and Bermuda (The Caribbean), Japan and Tonga (Asia-Pacific), Austria and Poland (Europe), Argentina and Peru (Latin America) - not to speak about countries with well known ties to Zimbabwe.

The danger for Mugabe comes from these "aggrieved" refugess who may sue the murderer in local courts in many of these countries that have legalised “universal jurisdiction”. hence Pinochet's trial in the UK.

Lunatic Mugabe and cronies must be mortified at the grim prospects of being dragged to courts in innumerable! May be they realise that they should just become "forced refugees" in their own country by not daring to undertake travels. Kenya, Botswana, Liberia, Tanzania may jump into the moving bandwagon in order to send a strong signal to fellow African leaders not to imitate the Mugabe, Déby, Mobutu, Taylor and co.

The recourse to the ICC would rather be an initiative by countries than aggrieved individuals. In both instances, Mugabe and cronies are trapped!

Are they sleeping well or are they going through nightmares already? The speculation that MUgabe is continuing to cling to power suggests that his nightmares are dictating his lunatic tendencies to entertain chaos. "Let me rule or else you all sink with me" must be his current motto!

Fortunately, there is the collective voice of CSOs exerting maximum pressure on the MDCs to live up to their stated objectives to bring freedom, justice and a democratically elected regime. Indirectly, that means without lunatic Mugabe and cronies!

let's be vigilant!

Enslavement of Afrakans by the same people calling for the prosecution of the one and only one Afrakan voice of conscience and re-awakening are leading the way. Millions of the enslaved afrakans are mathing on clapping hands, dancing, and singing the slave master's stale songs out of sheer ignorance! And slavery of Afrakans continental and abroad is supposed to have ended some two hundred years ago? Wake up people, this is the twenty-first century!!!!!!

Yarik Turianskyi is an intern in the Governance and APRM Programme at the South African Institute of International Affairs in Johannesburg.

Give us a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like activists for meaningful change in society, I am terribly upset by the twisting of truth by admirers of murderous Mugabe, anti-west bashers and dubious africanists!

The author of the article referred to existing pieces of legislation under which perpetrators of crime against humanity can be prosecuted outside one's own country. He then speculated as to lunatic Mugabe's possible status under the two existing legislations. He did not invent anything!

Admirers of Mugabe should know that Hitler also had admirers. Even today! But sanity prevails and laws are around to tackle them in a firm but fair manner.

Dubious Africanists! So many crimes have been committed under the disguise of this slogan. How on earth can an Africanist condone killings, maiming and rape of fellow citizens in a so-called liberated country?

Talking about the land issue, how Western sanctions prevent owners of large tracks of land from planting maize in sufficient quantity in Zimbabwe to feed its people? Instead of bashing the West, Mugabe cronies have just to put to good use the recovered land. Once a country can feed its citizens with the basic neccessities, sanctions or no sanctions the country is set to accumulate wealth throught the broadening of its industrial sector. Sanctions do not prevent Zimbabwe to export to the SADC region!

Stacking together all Mugabe opponents and branding them colonizers, pro-West, white racists does not help move forward the ideas in debate.

Let us not immitate lunatic Mugabe who has sikfully whipped up emotions around the land issue and colonialism in order to divert attention from his own dismal failure to improve the quality of life in the once prosperous country.

The silent majority of Zimbabweans know the naked facts about murderer Mugabe and cronies. The civil society organisations will have to continue to be vigilant even under Tsvangirai. It's not one person that can deliver! Constant pressure and vigilance are required on politicians, be they in West or East or Africa and what not.

The fundamental point still to be attended to is about whether somebody who has committed crimes against humanity and who wants to continue to cling to illegitimate power can be pardoned? Will the pardon granted in Zimbabwe be legal outside Zimbabwe? The author says there are 2 pieces of legislation that will guide future action.

A pardon in Zimbabwe does not prevent an aggrieved Zimbabwean now settled in Canada, after running away from vampire Mugabe, to drag him to court there. The ICC also may disregard such a pardon under a UN request to prosecute the lunatic.

Mugabe is in hot soup anyway, like his cronies!

Now, may I plead with Mugabe admirers to go back to their promised land and start planting maize. It's more valuable an action than branding people, not thinking like you, pro-West, racists, colonialists!! These empty slogans won't feed a hungry child.

This article is way off Zimbabwe’s discourse. Some so-called intellectuals are lunatic in their attempts to find lime light. Apologies for being dishonorable to sane thinking by commenting on this ignominious pathetic article.

This post was deleted because it contravenes AllAfrica's commenting guidelines.

Yes Baasi ... how come you have such a selective mind? You would not dare apply the same rules to the catholic IRA in Northern Ireland because they are wazungu. The same explanatioin would go to explain non of the leaders of apartheid were tried for the sufferings of millions of unborn and living bantu. Actually one of the apartheid rulers was awarded a NOBEL prize ...what a wonkie sense of justice. Australia is overpopulated by rhodies with blood on their hands and yet the Ozzie political leadership goes on and on about RMG ad nauseam. Tell me what you intend to do with Adams and McGuiness who are now in the Stormont government? Do you realise that you used "lunatic" so many times. Believe it or not, my friend, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO OUR PRESIDENT, His Excellence RGM. We love him in the same way the English loved Queen Elizabeth I and winston Churchill.

Here's the difference in this example aka, and please listen carefully, Adams and McGuinness were elected by the Irish electorate under their own free will ..... Sinn Fein is a political party, and though their members may have had IRA affiliations (or even been IRA) in the past, that is no longer the case. Sinn Fein has never taken up arms, they have tried to solve the problems through legal and political channels.

Mugabe on the other hand has (albeit indirectly) murdered, tortured, raped and displaced hundreds of thousands of Zimbabweans. You seem to forget that, like the situation in this article, one of the conditions that was obtained to gain the ceasefire was (in effect) immunity from prosecution for the IRA members that came forward.

Please do your research before posting this grade of junk, because some people here DO actually know the history of the troubles in both Ireland and Zimbabwe ..... Don't make the mistake of making yourself look a fool any more than you have because people will eventually catch on and treat you as comic relief.

Sinn Fein was set up to physically fight the English occupation of Ireland. They actually placed bombs and participated in other nefarious activities against her Majesty's gvt. Remember 'General Haw Haw' !! How about the death of thousands innocent protestants since the sart of the 20th century?? You should NOT sanitise terrorists just because you are Irish and they are Vazungu. The IRA tried to wipe out leadership of the TORY party in Brighton and one of the victims is still an invalid. I voted Tory because they call a spade a spade. They do not patronise one and interfere incessantly like your type. STILL are you going to see the IRA terrorists on trial in the HAGUE? Tell us Baasi!!! How about all those Selous Scouts in Perth, Australia. Your so called Gt Zim friends are awaiting for your answer ...

aka... I suggest you read peoples posts before you keep on with the same continuous tripe. I'll repeat this for you Sinn Fein was a political party that never took up arms. Got it? You have no idea. Ever since your comments that the world wars involved England and Germany, you have no credibility. Get an education fool.

No ..... Sinn Fein was the political arm of the IRA that used other routes to try to secure a British army withdrawal from Northern Ireland. The Irish Republican Army were the ones who planted the bombs and took a physical role in the troubles.

And you have shown your lack of knowledge in the situation yet again with your assumptions about the protestants and catholics in Ireland ..... Like I said, do some research and the findings will certainly, judging by your evident ignorance of the facts, surprise you.

Going back to Sinn Fein, they are in Stormont because they were elected into it politically ..... without resorting to the terrorist tactics that ZANU PF have shown themselves so adept at using on the general public for a hell of a long time. Sinn Fein made a difference for the betterment of Ireland, all RGM and ZANU have done is destroyed most of Zimbabwe.

When you've done your research, using sources from all 3 sides of the troubles of course (both sides of the Irish and the British views), please come back and we can have an adult discussion on this matter.

Just as a subnote, there is one thing that remains very similar about ZANU (ZANLA) and the IRA in their fight for liberation ..... they considered themselves freedom fighters while they were almost universally denounced as terrorists because of their tactics. The difference comes in that not long after their 'liberation victory', the IRA called an end to their armed struggle, moving everything into the political arena ..... Mugabe and his cronies merely changed targets and carried on killing innocents.

I am still awaiting your reply on this matter aka, I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on the points raised there.

you'll be waiting a while mate, these people, aka, dLoser, Kube, they seem to resort to ignoring posts that have painted them into a corner.

Yes Baasi ... how come you have such a selective mind? You would not dare apply the same rules to the catholic IRA in Northern Ireland because they are wazungu. The same explanatioin would go to explain non of the leaders of apartheid were tried for the sufferings of millions of unborn and living bantu. Actually one of the apartheid rulers was awarded a NOBEL prize ...what a wonkie sense of justice. Australia is overpopulated by rhodies with blood on their hands and yet the Ozzie political leadership goes on and on about RMG ad nauseam. Tell me what you intend to do with Adams and McGuiness who are now in the Stormont government? Do you realise that you used "lunatic" so many times. Believe it or not, my friend, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO OUR PRESIDENT, His Excellence RGM. We love him in the same way the English loved Queen Elizabeth I and winston Churchill.

Yes Baasi ... how come you have a selective mind. Tell me ... what do you think what s going on in Northern Ireland? The Catholic IRA terrorists and holy protestant Scotish settlers have found PEACE and are inthe same GVT? Do you see anything wrong with that??? Do you propose that Jerry Adams and that chap McGuiness be send to the Haigue? If not, why not?? Of corse they are vazungu.

Aka, what are you complaining about? I thought you were all for murderous thugs being allowed to keep power?

Baasi, dont change the subject. Answer my quest for iformation from your type and enlighten those who stand by you and believe that you are a man of principles. One more, are you going to take Jerry Adams and McGuiness to the Hague for the many nefarious activities they imposed on the peace loving people of Northern Ireland??? PLEASE ANSWER. While you are at it, are the rhodies like General Walls and Van der Byl already in detention in the Hague. I love you.

But what is your point? That we should allow all criminals to run free because we failed to prosecute other criminals historically? Why not add Stalin to your list or Mao? You are simply dodging the issue. Mugabe has committed criminal acts and should be punished. If others have gone free unfairly, the solution is not to let one more criminal go free, rather to punish every criminal we can. Are you suggesting that we simply imitate colonial and post-colonial western criminals and give Mugabe a pass? How many more injustices will make you happy?

Exactly. Bottom line. Mugabe has committed criminal acts and should be punished.

I didnt see any irishman murder 20,000 fellow irishmen to keep power. Did you? Whats your definition of genocide?

General walls prosecuted a just war against invading thugs who maimed, raped, cut off ears and noses and lips off african villagers..all in the name of freedom!! pretty much of what is going on now. the Honorable General Walls deserves all the medals he got and more!!! might not be a bad thing if general walls rounded up the much feared selous scouts and came to kick ass!!! would learn a lot of fools some lessons me thinks!! As for Gerry Adams and Co...what have they got to do with zimbabwe?? sweet FA!!!!

Forgot to add Van der Byl was a decent honest peace loving man and we could do with more men like him..note I said men..these days the country is being run by animals!!!

got him there awt...it is he with the selective mind!! but back to the article...the THUG mugabe should not face trial...he should be put in front of a wall facing 6 men with high powered rifles and the command should be given to fire!! if he survives then it is only fair that he be allowed to stand trial!!!

Hey boy....baasi was a corruption of english by kitchen and garden boys who failed to pronounce Boss....LOL. Just thought I'd let you in on the little secret..seems you are fond of the word...guess old habits die hard mate...now go cut the grass..with the bemba!!!LOL

You know what some of comments are just offensive. Lets remember that if one is to go to places as far as New Zealand, Australia, Cook Islands, Brazil and Bermuda, you will find the English men. They are running away from their own country becuase of poverty. Its amazing that the white men thinks he alone has the right to settle anywhere in the world as their entitlement. Just 2 African Kingdom History which was completely destroyed and moved to Europe. The facts can not remain hidden.

1)The Lochner Concession with King Lewanika in 1890.

2) ANGOLA A vast region lying to the south of the Congo basin, in western Central Africa. CONGO In northern Angola, and encompassing the estuary of the lower Congo River. An independent Black African state by times supported or attacked by the Portuguese... Ntinu Nimi a Lukeni.............................fl. c. 1400 ? 4 Kings, names unknown John Nzinga Nkunu..............................1482-1506 Alphonse I Mvemba-Nzinga.......................1506-c. 1543 Peter I Nkanga Mvemba.......................c. 1543-1545 Francis.............................................1545 James..........................................1545-1561 Alphonse II.........................................1561 Bernard I......................................1561-1567/8 Henry........................................1567/8-1568 To Portugal....................................1575-1641 Alvares...................................1568-1587 Alvares II Mpanzu a Nimi..................1587-1614 Bernard II................................1614-1615 Alvares III...............................1615-1622 Peter II..................................1622-1624 Garcia I Alphonse.........................1624-1626 d. 1626 Ambrose...................................1626-1631 Alvares III...............................1631-1636 Alvares V......................................1636 Alvares VI Alphonse.......................1636-1641 To the Netherlands.............................1641-1665 opposed by... Garcia II Alphonse........................1641-1661 Anthony...................................1661-1665 Most to Portugal...............................1648-1975 NIMI na MPANGU Alvares VII...............................1665-1666 Alvares VIII...................................1666 Alphonse III..............................1666-1667 Peter III.................................1667-1683 opposed by... NTINU a NIMI Raphael...................................1669-1674 and... KINIMI a MBEMBA Alvares IX................................1669- ? and... NTINU a NIMI Daniel ne Miyala Mpangu...................1674-1678 John II ne Nsuki a Ntamba.................1683-1717 opposed by... NSANU MBEMBA Peter IV..................................1709-1718 Peter V...................................1718- ? ? Henry III Alphonse Nlengi.................1793-1802 Alvares XI Alphonse Kafvasa....................1802 Garcia V Alphonse Ne Nkanga a Nvembi......1802-1830 ? Andrew II Alphonse Andrew III Alphonse Ndondele Beya.......... ? -1842 Henry IV Alphonse Lunga...................1842-1858 Alvaro XII Alphonse.......................1858-1859 Peter V Alphonse..........................1859-1891 Alvares XIII Alphonse Mfutila.............1891-1896 vacant Peter VI Alphonse Mvemba..................1912-1915 with... Manuel III Alphonse Kiditu................1912-1915 Alvares XIV Alphonse Nzinga...............1915-1923 Peter VII Alphonse........................1923-1955 Anthony III Alphonse......................1955-1957 Peter VIII Alphonse Mansala...............1957-1962 Isabel Maria da Gama (fem.)................1962-1975 ANGOLA Portuguese Colonies on the coast from 1575. The interior penetrated and annexed during the second half of the 19th century. To Portugal....................................1575-1641 Portugal to Spain, 1580-1640 To the Netherlands.............................1641-1665 To Portugal....................................1648-1975 Republic.......................................1975- The government which took control after the withdrawal of Portuguese authority was an avowedly Marxist regime, which had the effect of plunging the nation into chronic civil war, as Western backed forces contested the government. This war continued until April of 2002. We know the truth that the barbarians are not Africans. Will give another lesson, as that of naked blacks running the bush was designed to make those that wanted to make themselves feel superior.

"Universal jurisdiction"? What a porous legal construct? Pinochet's case is arguably the execption that proves the rule of the unadministrability of juridical doctrine of jurisdiction universal.

Arguendo, assume that the construct is sound. Two issues pop up: what would be standard proof in such jurisdictions? Second, what would count as a crime in the courts that susbcribe to the doctrine. For example, could Iragi refugees "sue" President Bush in such Courts? If Bush cannot be sued, nor can Mugabe, assuming that your argument is exclusively grounded on the refugee problematic.

Many rivers to cross, my friend.

"Universal jurisdiction," is a pipe dream, corroborated herein by your grounding of the same in a special case, Pinochet's. En passant, yes or not: does your construct apply to George Bush and the Iragi refugees?

Yes Mugabe should face the Law to teach others that killing and touchering innocent people is un acceptable.Noone is above the law Mugabe and his war veterent should be prose cuted immidietly.They killed so many people .

Only after Bush,Blair,Howard and other great criminals of the west first face trial for their adventures in Iraq, Afghanistan , Pakistan where hundreds of thousands of innocents have been killed because of their lies and lawlessness.They should first clean up their house before coming to tell us how to clean ours.Hypocrites.

and how many of those innocents in Iraq and Afganistan were killed by suicide bombers and Sunni v Shiite factions? When has Bush/Blair deliberately targeted 20,000 men woman and children in a genocide to rival that of Mugabes?

awt_independant you re funny yo!you talk of bombings by the shiite and what have you but the question stands, were these bombings there or even that frequent before the lunatic venture into iraq. how many lives were lost as a result of America`s so called messianic act with regards to democracy. they dictate and define what is best for everyone in the world on what grounds. you say Bob should be tried for redistributing the land to its rightful owners. You people can go hang about the LAND ISSUE. who is going to try your leaders for the atrocities they commit in Abu Ghraib, guantanamo, iraq, afghanistan and all these other nations.Operation Murambatsvina was done within the armbits of Zimbabwean law.Whether you like it or not some people broke local by laws and ignorance is no defence when you commit a crime.At least give Bob the benefit of the doubt for the housing system that Zimbabwe has. For your own information, those who have very little knowledge about the progress in terms of development.According to statistics compiled by UN habitat in 2001,against Africa`s average of 74% only 3,4% of Zimbabwe`s urban population live in slums a figure lower than that of industrialised nations that have 6,4% of its population living in slum like dwellings. Who will try Raila Odinga for using the back door into power. More than a thousand people were killed within a month. Mwai Kibaki rigged elections and nothing was said. MDC claims that its people have been killed by Zanu pf. how come its only MDC people who are killed and tortured. send bush and blair to hague and then maybe you can make those demands to Africa

Trying to reason with ignorance is a waste of time ! Mugabe always was a terrorist , he even hurt those who allied with him (Nkomo) against the whites who tried to establish law and order in a place like Africa, what a waste of time and energy ! Please ! You people could break a piece of steel 12"x 12"x 12 " and expect everyone to help you put it back together ! You can't govern yourselves and yes the west should leave you to your own devices , kill one another off over stupid tribalism , starve and die of disease. Maybe your new Chinese masters will be nicer to you than the foolish whites who tried to help you. "GO HANG " on the land you destroyed , you own it, do as you please , but don't expect food from us Western Demons when you inhabit a desert. It is just a shame some of the really good people in Zimbabwe have to be influenced by morons that write some of the rubbish on these pages. UP WITH BOB , from a gallows !

Makasa we do not hero worship America.We only have one God and that god is in Heaven Not America.you have created a dependant state in Africa.Every nation economic policies are dictated and approved by the world bank. what shit is that. our people are literally starving and some are even riddened into the shacks of poverty. You have people who are as old as 50 who have never even seen or used a phone let alone been driven in a car. All this is because of the historical anormalies due to the partitioning and parceling of Africa. Zimbabwe is free and we shall never be a colony again.That you can be rest assured. I have a hero in the old man. Long live BOB.

Nobody wants you to hero worship America , I know I don't , your point is well taken about native people being slower in progress , but when the Rhodesian whites still allowed for their tribal customs, which I respect and started bringing education slowly , you morons at the bidding of your Russian and Chinese masters , shouted UHURU, Kwacha etc, well the Americans and British gave it to you. You rejected moderate African leaders who were at least trying to help your people , not rape , loot and plunder for their own needs. Now you want to blame , that is all you people know how to do, if it is not one group ie the Rhodesians , it is the World bank or America or Britain or someone else. For once in your lives , wake up , you are to blame |!| What you got is a slimeball terrorist who should hang for his crimes. Now I suppose you will try and drag Bush into it in your usual ignorant way , well don't , your validity as a debater is questionable at best. For once you blacks need to realise that you are to blame for the mess in Africa , not whites or anyone else. If it wasn't for whites and others you would still be butchering one another with assegais , pangas and knobkerries, just look at Bob's boys ? Instead of educating them , hell I don't care if it is even in the medevial tribal ways , it would be better than the destructive way dear old Bob is doing it ! Mugabe needs to go on trial and hang for the misery and embarassment he has caused not only Africa , but the whole world ! Yes there is one Nkosi and He will root out scum like Mugabe. God bless the poor descent folk of Zim who have endured Mugabe and worse yet the half baked ideas of people like you ! ISHE KOMBERRA AFRIKA !

Makasa lest we not forget the way America`s cousin states partitioned and parceled Africa. your motive being to PLUNDER the resources of Africa and teach us humanity. The title that you and your fellow brothers claim to have been God annointed with. America`s pieties of democracy and subverting us from our traditional and cultural beliefs. Enslaving us in our own mother land.Afica having been endowed with natural resources which are next to none in the world and probably the best weather patterns a fact Universally acknowledged. THE ONLY CRADDLE OF MANKIND on Earth Makasa. You made us mere chattels in our land. your cousin states looted and plundered our resources. You created artificical boundariess which did not exist before then.YOUR MANTRA BEING-DIVIDE AND RULE. whose ramifications are clearly being felt in Africa at the moment. Then you looked for more subtle ways to colonise Africa after having disdainfully affiliated yourselves to the league of nations and championing human rights. To avert resistance from other states you schemed and manipulated to create an all inclusive globe with greed at the forefront of everything. from Imperialism to Neo liberalsim/ free market economy. What you people termed as independence in Africa was just feeding Africans with poison on running the perfect organisation to promote Western Interests. Our governments in Africa merely being pro western promoters because they are running our states like corporate entities disguised in the name of democracy and development. The subtle way being your transnational corporations looting our resources in the name of FDI. This is so because the same companies have not even shown any willingness to MEANINGULLY USE THE GAINS FROM OUR MOTHERLAND TO DEVELOP/ENHANCE THE LIVES OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

Zimbabwe`s independence came with a sacrifice-THROUGH THE BARREL OF THE GUN.The struggle started in earnest 1893 and that battle was won a hundred years later. WE fought and triumphed then we were humane enough to even consider talking to your people to reach a consensus in the spirit of humanity.We gave and taught you humanity.We were passionate about our freedom and that collectivism was the panacea to AFRICA`s emancipation from the bloody savages who tortured and maimed our people. Needless to say, we negotiated in good faith and offered an olive branch to your kith and kin. Point of correction, Bob is the engine behind many Zimbabweans success that you see the world over. Our people are quite an educated bunch and they are driving the economy of most of our fellow African brothers.Go to Botswana, go to South Africa, go to kenya and even as far as Tanzania you will see what I am talking about. The institutions in our neighbouring states are being driven by Zimbabwean professors. bob made it possible and the literacy Rate in Zimbabwe cannot be compared to any other and better still according to United Nations Habitat Report. Zimbabwe has been accorded the status of being the best African country to provide decent accommodation for its people or having the least number of slums which is far far much better than the so called industrialised states. We have the highest number of dams IN THE WORLD AND AFRICA, the second highest deposits of platinum in the world.The highest education rate in Southern Africa and third Best in Africa. All these are the brains of the so called african Despotic.Very cunning and principled indeed is BOB. The most educated African President despite his age and the best spoken African President.By the way Zimbabwe was and is the only African country to have had a GDP that grew by more than 8% per annum according to the world Bank.The best that South Africa has done is 5%.This was during Bob`s tenure.The biggest mistake maybe we made was too much dependence on the west and their ill virtued cousin states. You practically drove our economy and for the past 9yrs Zimbabwe has been a cash economy with no balance of payment support and you have denied it funding for AIDS/HIV under the united nations based on a political vendetta through ZEDERA(Zimbabwe Economic and Democractic...).

No matter how many times you shout the only advice i can give you is to go and kill yourself with armed struggles in the toilet rather than trying to lecture us on human rights because you have negated and ridden roughshod on our African beliefs and that white supremacy stands challenged and defeated in Zimbabwe. As the pseudoynm says it Greenbomber- As a born free I am willing to stand and fight against being made mere chattels on my birthright(ZIMBABWE)I stand ready to defend Zimbabwe`s sovereignity just like the men and women of yesterday who fought to liberate OUR ZIMBABWE so that people like me and those others who have gained directiy and indirectly from Zimbabwe could lead a free life.the difference between you and me is that I am so prepared to trade my Academic and economic life to defend what i believe in.

Zimbabwe is Free and mark my words-WE OWN OUR RESOURCES AND ONCE AGAIN, WE SHALL RISE LIKE A PHOENIX.LONG LIVE THE AFRICAN DREAM.

top man makasa..top man..sometimes we need someone like you to tell it as it is...but dont hold your breath..the bozos on here got pretty thick skulls and it wont sink in at all!!!

So the late Honorable Ian Douglas Smith should have been put on trial for letting the murderer mugabe take over and kill his own people??? Your reasoning defies belief and common sense! You blame bush and blair and howard for the suicide murderers...so we might as well blame smith for giving in to the murderer of his own people mugabe!! did you really go to school???

"you say Bob should be tried for redistributing the land to its rightful owners."

That is actually incorrect, what has been said many times in these threads is that Bob should be tried for his crimes against the Zimbabwean people ..... 5th Brigade, the 'slum' clearances, the stolen elections since 1980 through intimidation and violence ..... so please at least get your forum facts straight before you post, otherwise you will be taken purely as comic relief, which shouldn't be the case because every opinion is important.

Timberwood you are the one who should get his/her facts straight.Im sure yours is a sign of the next in line effect or maybe even a serious disorder like Amnesia. The author of the article cleary states the issue of the violent seizure of farms by the war veterans as one of the charges.Your Great uncle Ian smith Did not let us rule, we butchered your kith and kin to win our sovereignity and we could still do it again need be.Continue masterbating in your blissful ignorance.honky tonky

As we're in the mood to try to cause offence by misspelling names, Greenbummer, I'm quite happy to bring myself down to the childish level you have displayed in that last post.

"we butchered your kith and kin to win our sovereignity"

That is actually only partially correct, the so called war veterans also butchered YOUR kith and kin, both during and after the bush war.

I didn't once say that the violent seizures of farms shouldn't be an issue, I merely said that the idea of land redistribution isn't the thing that should be punished ..... and as you can't be trusted to read between the lines, I'll spell it out for you - IT IS THE METHOD THAT WAS USED FOR THE LAND DISTRIBUTION WHICH IS A CRIME, NOT THE LAND DISTRIBUTION ITSELF. Is that clear enough for your simple mind, or do you need me to work it down into words of less than one syllable?

What you seem to have is a selective understanding caused by being trapped in the 1970s, you don't look at NOW, you are stuck looking at THEN. Grow up and bring yourself into the 21st century, you might not feel as safe as you do in your 1970s comfort zone, but at least it'll strip you of your delusions.

timberwood it hit you were it hurts the most it seems. considering that you say we are in the mood to cause offence and because of that you have decided to bring yourself to my so called puerile/childish level.It did get to you because you have brought yourself to that level.Let me correct you once again timberwood.Its seems you are definitely thick headed considering that you are thick as your name implies-TIMBERWOOD. you say..."IT IS THE METHOD THAT WAS USED FOR THE LAND DISTRIBUTION WHICH IS A CRIME, NOT THE LAND DISTRIBUTION ITSELF"the land redstribution in zimbabwe was a program carried out under the constitution of zimbabwe.The whole exercise was and is enshrined the constitution of Zimbabwe the highest legal framework in the former British colony-MY BIRTHRIGHT (ZIMBABWE).Zimbabwe being a sovereign state and a recognised under the vienna convention as so it therefore stands.you cannot term it a crime.A crime under which law.BUSH`S LAW definitely, definitely not in Zimbabwe and what I can safely tell you right now is that as the sun rises from the east and sets in the west, MDC OR WHATEVER GVT Comes after that will never reverse the land redistribution program.Advice Timberwood:

"What you seem to have is a selective understanding caused by being trapped in the 1970s, you don't look at NOW, you are stuck looking at THEN. Grow up and bring yourself into the 21st century, you might not feel as safe as you do in your 1970s comfort zone, but at least it'll strip you of your delusions." "Can a doctor cure a disease if he refuses to acknowledge the symptoms? The same goes for Zimbabwe ..... how can the economy be healed until the root cause of what has made it collapse is acknowledged and addressed?"

those are chunks of paragraphs from two separate contributions from you.Now i have to teach you critical appreciation.its sad.in the latter passage you gave a hypothetical situation of a doctor curing a disease if he did not have a background/knowledge of the symptoms?????then in the first paragraph you mention that i am transfixed to the 1970s and i do not look at NOW.According to you, how can you look at a disease without looking at the symptoms???Thats you not me.In Zimbabwe`s case the symptoms stretch as far as the 1970s and even earlier than that Timberwood unless you do not acknolwedge this.The land problem dates back to the 19th century.1890 to be specific timberwood.We thought we were finally solving the problem of our birthright through the lancaster agreement in 1979 after a protracted struggle which by the way we triumphed.1997 is the turning point in Zimbabwe timberwood.your kith and kin renerged on their promise.We would have kicked you out simple but we sympathised and reasoned with your people and that in Africa we call the spirit of UBUNTU or UJAMAA in kiswahili the pan african fashion-"I AM BECAUSE WE ARE AND SINCE WE ARE THEREFORE I AM.".We taught you humanity.You thought you were clever but we still had the last laugh over our land.

You also claim that I am biased, well the same goes to you because you have taken the perspective of the Blair toilet and Brown gvt.Did you ever consider to take the position of the Zimbabwe GVT into consideration about the land issue.NO!!!!By the way the same Rajan Soni that i mentioned did work under the two parties tenure in gvt.His duties in Zimbabwe ended just soon after Blair toilet came into power.He tried reasoning with the Department of international affairs under the SHORT lady-MADAM CLAIRE.in this case he carried over his perspective to the next gvt.so it is safe to say he did have an assesment of both gvt`s perception towards Harare.I cant be educating a person old enough to be my father. please!Overt racist-i love that title.You are quick to give me a title.overt that is rather frank and that in its own makes you a subtle racist dont you think?you have an element of im big in you as evident in your endeavour to label me thick simple minded blatant racist.That is subtle racism.Should i give you a psychological explanation to that timberwood.im sure you can check out scholarly articles on overt and subtle racism on the net.quite a number of them.it takes two to tango and in this case you are doing so with me.it seems you have a disciple in turnex.you are definitely a lucky chap. he would vote for you.

I'll take this point by point, just to make it easier for you to follow:

"Timberwood it hit you were it hurts the most it seems. considering that you say we are in the mood to cause offence and because of that you have decided to bring yourself to my so called puerile/childish level."

I actually said 'try' to cause offence, I actually found the deliberate misspelling quite amusing.

"Let me correct you once again timberwood.Its seems you are definitely thick headed considering that you are thick as your name implies-TIMBERWOOD."

Ah, but that is mere presumption, you see, because I have presented both sides ..... you merely stick to a one track argument.

"you say..."IT IS THE METHOD THAT WAS USED FOR THE LAND DISTRIBUTION WHICH IS A CRIME, NOT THE LAND DISTRIBUTION ITSELF"the land redstribution in zimbabwe was a program carried out under the constitution of zimbabwe.The whole exercise was and is enshrined the constitution of Zimbabwe the highest legal framework in the former British colony-MY BIRTHRIGHT (ZIMBABWE).Zimbabwe being a sovereign state and a recognised under the vienna convention as so it therefore stands.you cannot term it a crime.A crime under which law."

With the methods that were used (i.e. violence, intimidation, etc.) we would be talking about basic human rights, also covered by the Vienna convention, as well as most other international laws, so theres your easy answer on that one.

"BUSH`S LAW definitely, definitely not in Zimbabwe and what I can safely tell you right now is that as the sun rises from the east and sets in the west, MDC OR WHATEVER GVT Comes after that will never reverse the land redistribution program."

I honestly couldn't give a monkeys tail about Bush's law, the guy is an imbecile and a fool, and reversing the land distribution program would certainly be a mistake ..... reviewing it to place people who can actually work farms on the land would be essential though.

"Advice Timberwood:

"What you seem to have is a selective understanding caused by being trapped in the 1970s, you don't look at NOW, you are stuck looking at THEN. Grow up and bring yourself into the 21st century, you might not feel as safe as you do in your 1970s comfort zone, but at least it'll strip you of your delusions." "Can a doctor cure a disease if he refuses to acknowledge the symptoms? The same goes for Zimbabwe ..... how can the economy be healed until the root cause of what has made it collapse is acknowledged and addressed?"

those are chunks of paragraphs from two separate contributions from you.Now i have to teach you critical appreciation.its sad.in the latter passage you gave a hypothetical situation of a doctor curing a disease if he did not have a background/knowledge of the symptoms?????then in the first paragraph you mention that i am transfixed to the 1970s and i do not look at NOW.According to you, how can you look at a disease without looking at the symptoms???Thats you not me.In Zimbabwe`s case the symptoms stretch as far as the 1970s and even earlier than that Timberwood unless you do not acknolwedge this."

Oh I acknowledge that the country's symptoms go back that far, but not only that far, because most of the damage has been done since 1980 ..... A self reliant and self sufficient country (which was made that way by the fact that it had to be so because of the sanctions against it, a fact which kind of ridicules the current claims that it is the lighter sanctions which have crippled Zimbabwe) was turned into an economic and humanitarian disaster through mismanagement and greed ..... so to look at the symptoms of the current disease, one doesn't need to look back that far, because the previous disease was supposedly cured in 1980. Also, as a subnote, if you are stuck in the 1970s looking at what you perceive to be the symptoms, how can you cure the disease without bringing yourself right up to date? Most people can look at the past without getting stuck there like you seem to have done.

"The land problem dates back to the 19th century.1890 to be specific timberwood.We thought we were finally solving the problem of our birthright through the lancaster agreement in 1979 after a protracted struggle which by the way we triumphed.1997 is the turning point in Zimbabwe timberwood.your kith and kin renerged on their promise.We would have kicked you out simple but we sympathised and reasoned with your people and that in Africa we call the spirit of UBUNTU or UJAMAA in kiswahili the pan african fashion-"I AM BECAUSE WE ARE AND SINCE WE ARE THEREFORE I AM.".We taught you humanity.You thought you were clever but we still had the last laugh over our land."

This one is particularly amusing (not the land part, which I agree with, but the part about humanity) ..... Billy Connolly couldn't have made me laugh more ..... So the 5th brigade were there on a humanitarian mission in the 1980s were they? ZANU-PF humanely intimidated the people at election time did they? If that is teaching us humanity, then someone ought to nuke the Earth to stop anyone else getting off it and infecting the rest of the universe. Most of the general populace of Zimbabwe are good people, as are most of the general populaces elsewhere, but the ones with the power wouldn't know humanity if it bit them on the rear.

"You also claim that I am biased, well the same goes to you because you have taken the perspective of the Blair toilet and Brown gvt."

Thats where you're wrong, because the sooner Brown and Labour are out of office the better ..... as far as I'm concerned. And yes I am biased, everyone is to a certain extent, but I'm biased towards getting Zimbabwe back to its former glory (and no, I don't mean the Rhodesia era), where Zimbabweans of all races, religions, etc can live without fear or favour ..... something that you have proved that you don't subscribe to.

"Did you ever consider to take the position of the Zimbabwe GVT into consideration about the land issue.NO!!!!"

You're right, I didn't ..... I took the position of Zimbabwe and its people into consideration ..... something far more important than the ruling elite. It's that sort of comment that reinforces their delusions that they are something more than normal humans, that they can get away with anything just because they are in charge. A lot of other leaders have been felled by exactly the same assumption.

"By the way the same Rajan Soni that i mentioned did work under the two parties tenure in gvt.His duties in Zimbabwe ended just soon after Blair toilet came into power.He tried reasoning with the Department of international affairs under the SHORT lady-MADAM CLAIRE.in this case he carried over his perspective to the next gvt.so it is safe to say he did have an assesment of both gvt`s perception towards Harare."

I wonder why he was muscled out then ..... could it be the same reason that Tony 'incompetent' Blair muscled a lot of people out, because their position or ideals did not fit in with his government ..... But then again Mr Soni is still alive and welcome in England, something that would have been slightly different in Zimbabwe.

"I cant be educating a person old enough to be my father."

That depends on how old you are, and as far as it goes, this is not educational material ..... quite a bit of good stuff in there for stand up comedy though.

"please!Overt racist-i love that title.You are quick to give me a title.overt that is rather frank and that in its own makes you a subtle racist dont you think?"

I would disagree with that as I'm working from a standpoint of cooperative action, whereas you are working (or so it seems from your posts) from a standpoint of 'all whites are evil, racist demons who shouldn't be afforded the same human rights as anyone else' ..... and again I will state that I am not talking about it from a Rhodesian view, I am talking about the state of play now.

"you have an element of im big in you as evident in your endeavour to label me thick simple minded blatant racist.That is subtle racism."

Again you are mistaking the approach I am taking with a minority of people for my view of all ..... Yes I notice black and white, there are some out there that don't see it, and believe me when I say I'd love to be like that, and yes I do lean slightly more favourably to one than the other when I'm not thinking. But the difference between us comes in that I try to be unbiased by race, therefore trying to be a better person by knowing my faults, whereas you simply carry on spouting racist diatribe in every post you write .... on various sites.

"Should i give you a psychological explanation to that timberwood.im sure you can check out scholarly articles on overt and subtle racism on the net.quite a number of them.it takes two to tango and in this case you are doing so with me."

That is true, but you're taking the 'whites are evil' stance, whereas I'm taking the 'good and bad on both sides' line, look at that logically and tell me where the racism REALLY lies.

My man, the cantankerous timber boy, have you ever heard anything about plagiarism and showing clarity in your work. Refer to the APA guide for referencing.You just took chunks and chunks from my work to come up with something which is quite lukewarm.Now you are attacking your own masters/heroes of democracy, Bush and Brown.You seem to be of lost cause. How can you bite the hand that feeds you.in your past blogs you seem to have been championing their causes with regards to their stance on Zimbabwe.So you are the voice of reasoning for Zimbabweans?how much are these Zimbabweans you talk of pay you to be their mouth piece.Their prophet.YOU PROPHET OF DOOM.the book of Amos in the bible or Hosea.Yes When Bob came into Power in 1980 he offered an olive branch to the white rhodies and ZAPU.Our army was made up of the former Rhodesian Forces, The Zanu guerillas and the Zapu guerillas.He offered an olive branch to everyone.Your brethren Bribed people like muzorewa to form a puppet gvt which they could control.Dennis Norman a white like you was the first minister of Agriculture, Timmothy Stamps came in as the Minister of Health.We had a white Army general at independence.Bob was accommodating.We had our ills with regards to the matebeleland massarces but you know what the 22ND OF DECEMBER 1987 was a turning point in Zimbabwe.Zanu and Zapu put aside their differences and said, we are one, we fought these settlers and defeated them together for a zimbabwe that Shona Ndebele and even our lost white soul brothers would live in peace and harmony.Our leaders forgave each other and formed a gvt of national unity and Zimbabwe was never the same again from that moment.We had one vision and hence our economy grew.WE are the only African nation to have ever got a GDP of 8% per annum.under one voice of reasoning, one purpose as Zimbabweans not Ndebele or Shona.We buried our difference.For your own information.I am shona, but born and raised in Bulawayo.I went to mission schools in matabeland south and I speak BRUTAL eloquent Ndebele.I never was subjected to this issue of Ndebele or shona.Even those i went to school with at that time embraced each other and we had a common purpose and that was to pursue to our scholastic careers.I AM ZIMBABWEAN AND PROUD.I LOVE MY PRESIDENT I LOVE MY COUNTRY AND MARK MY WORDS WHEN ZIMBABWE RISES IT SHALL RISE LIKE A PHOENIX.i WILL MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE WITH MY FELLLOW BROTHERS TO BUILD ZIMBABWE AGAIN.There is no condition that is permanent my friend.In kiswahili they say, "NSIKU HAZIGANDI!" HE WHO HAS NOTHING SHALL ONE DAY LIVE IN PLENTY.in shona we say, "kuseri kwesadza kunewusavi!!!!!!"i am african I am Zimbabwean, i am shona, i am proud to associate with my fellow brothers and to engage on issues that affect us and not to be fed with the big brother strangulation that the West has been feeding Africa.We are old, Africa has come of age and we are saying to you people treat us like equals not your children.You throw food on the floor and expect us to eat it.We shall not eat poison for the sake of pleasing., in shona we say,"usadye huroyi nenyadzi!!!!"I am Truly african my friend.Thats what makes me unique.I have assumed the pan african stance and all that we want is our freedom to be respected.I have gone out of my way to be educated about the african way hence the languages.You have reduced the African issue to a case of simple human rights.How so when we are busy jostling for the little resources that are left and considering that you looted and still are looting through your transnational corporations.

Stop being a caricature.you dare lecture me on rationality.Why should i take your points as the holy truth.the same way you claim that my facts are trash is the same way i will take your posts as arrogant stances.How can i be lectured by someone who does not even know where Africa is and will die without even setting foot in Africa let alone Zimbabwe.Your arguments are based on articles written by other people and the media.That is the difference between you and me.I am from Zimbabwe,I have had the best of both worlds,I have felt the effects of the sanctions,I am Zimbabwean and that should make my words authoritative in this case because i stand as a primary source in historical terms.Im am using the the knowledge that you kith and kin taught us.You are a secondary source and the information you post is mere hearsay my friend.

An interesting point that people like you do not know:read and learn Timberwood: HASLUCK WHO WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE COMMERCIAL FARMERS UNION IN ZIMBABWE FOR 20YRS.1982-2002.SAID IN THE TIME MAGAZINE OF 1990 THAT WE CERTAINLY HAD OUR OWN DECLARATION IN HUMAN RIGHTS AND INDEPENDENCE hereIN HARARE.HE SAID THIS WHEN BOB HAD SENT THE ARMY TO PROTECT THE WHITE FARMS ALONG THE MOZAMBIQUE BORDER AFTER THEY WERE INSURGENCES THAT HAD SURFACED IN OUR NEIGHBOURING COUNTRY.he was and is adamant that the Brits are also to blame for the situation in Zimbabwe because they ignored the history of our country.The same goes for dennis Norman.

You people are arrogant, the same shit you have been giving mbeki about Zimbabwe.What other form of pressure was he supposed to use.he is right.The zimbabwean problem would have never been solved by cherry picking a leader for us.running is not getting there."kumhanya handiko kusvika"We will get there and when we do it will be through unity of purpose and we do not need aid in Africa, we need to trade we need to be educated, we need to be equipped with the tools to drive our economies not have conditions set on us on how to run our affairs.Zimbabwe is not for sale.

Lastly, i said to you sublte racism.I cannot be lecturing you on this.Look it up in academic engines like EBSCOHOST and JSTOR.you have and are displaying subtle racism.

On a lighter note if you want to visit Africa Zimbabwe say so, I would be delighted to have you over and we will assure that we have you go back home in one peace.We do not eat humans.Come learn our culture and not be ethnocentric.I had forgotten that totally.That is in anthropological terms my friend.What is acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me.hence there is what we call cultural relativism which you have you learn about.

So those who are pro BOB are racists.Which Leader in the Africa and probably the world over is given a standing ovation WHEREVER HE GOES-THE LAST TIME I CHECKED IT WAS BOB.Then, which leader is booed and ridiculed wherever he goes, people march against him-BUSHBOY Bush.So all other Africans who respect this man are racists.you are arrogant my friend.What we think and feel also matters.we have a history and that history cannot be ignored.All we are saying is you people should treat us as equals.In africa we have a saying that when a child grows up that child should be able to sit and dine with their father and mother on the same table!!!this is one thing that you people have not afforded us because of SUBTLE RACISM.OUTSIDE YOU TREAT US AS EQUALS BUT INSIDE YOU FEEL SUPERIOR AND ARE QUICK TO JUDGE WITH SO MUCH IGNORANCE.no no NEVER ever.Our history has provided us with a reason to act. Timber i dont hate you my friend but just respect us.By the way I am dating a white woman and she loves me truly madly deeply.I have made her swear by her ancestors not to leave me.

I have to get back to my core businss.enjoy your day.ADIEU

Just a couple of quick points on that, plagiarism is the act of taking someone elses work and passing it off as your own ..... this is not the case, I merely used your previous post as a focus so that the points I was making could be addressed to the correct sections (note the sectionalised format using speech marks for the original comments from your post, and lack of same for the replies) ..... or would you prefer that I use the Harvard Referencing System when addressing your posts, because I am also quite familiar with its use and applications.

Never set foot in Africa or Zimbabwe? ..... again you are making a misinformed presumption on this point, I have had my feet planted firmly on Rhodesian, Zimbabwe Rhodesian and Zimbabwean soil, and spent a few years before, during and after independence around the Bulawayo area (primarily Llewellyn Barracks Married Quarters, but then again that was before I had a choice where to live personally) ..... being from Bulawayo you'll probably know my old school, Milton ..... you know, the one backing up onto Centenary Park at the time. As such, that gives your words no more weight than friends, both black and white, that I still talk to in country, and when talking about the time around Independence, it gives your words no more weight or authority than my own.

Attacking my own masters and heroes? Since when have I claimed Blair, Bush and Brown as my heroes? That, again is a supposition based on the arrogant assumption that everyone in the west is the same ..... and as for biting the hand that feeds, thats simply not the case ..... under the current labour government taxes have gone up along with prices, yet wages have not kept pace ..... not exactly feeding a country is it? But then again you should know all about things like that albeit on a greater scale with Mugabe.

And when did I say that all people who support Bob are racist ..... unlike you I do not make that assumption based on colour of skin, where someone lives, or who they follow ..... I form that opinion on their words and actions ..... which I have done in your case (wasn't really a hard or long process this time round, unusually, because most people create at least a little doubt)

Revisiting Zimbabwe is something I'm intending on doing pretty soon, and I certainly wouldn't be averse to meeting you in the Greys Inn (if it's still going) for a beer and a chat, but my accommodation is already sorted for that trip, thanks for the offer.

I'm rather dubious about your last claim given your previous posts and your apparent stance on the white menace, but then again thats not an issue, because I don't need you to justify your personal life, just as I wouldn't expect to have to justify mine to anyone else.

you said it all. so you are an embattled bitter descendant of a Rhodie. Was your Father a former Rhodesian army soldier. This is obvious because you stayed at Llewelin Barracksalong harare road.the former salsbury road as you guys knew it then.He or whoever you were staying with tortured and killed in the name of Ian Smith.

As you say you stayed at llewelin Barracks and this was before you had a choice of where to stay.So in essence when Bob got into power he afforded you that opportunity to choose where to live.Depending on the time you left, you are probably one of those guys who left because you couldnt stand the new gvt or probably because you joined the bandwagon of mercenaries.I do not blame you my friend.A lot of people did that owing to circumstances beyond their control.If you stayed in Zim long enough after independence you will agree that the economy was brilliant and that meltdown came soon after the land redistribution.20yrs after independence.our education system grew next to none in Africa and University of Zimbabwe became the best varisty in Africa and then things got worse. Definitely,the redistribution was bound to cause havoc because 80% of our agriculture was through FDI. OUR development was funded by the danish gvt and the swedish gvt just2name a few.We got technical assistance and financial aid from the bretton woods institutions and even our own Africa development bank and Africa development fund cut ties with us because of the sanctions.Because of ZIDERA(Zimbabwe economic...act) zimbabwe has been a cash economy for the past nine years.Multi lateral institutions like these stopped giving B.O.P support and lines of credit to Zimbabwe. Your champions of Democracy have even gone an extra mile to sanction a bank the former Rhodesia bank my friend(ZIMBANK) now called ZB., they have even sanctioned journalists from the popular herald.Your people preach about democracy but when you now start sanctioning a journalist because he reports for the state media what shit is that.You are the people who constantly preach about freedom of expression and media freedom but you are not practising what you preach by sanctioning a journalist.Next you sanction a bank.this bank has quite a number of clients and what this means is that any transaction that this bank makes on their behalf cld be frozen or let alone will not be accepted.How desperate can that be.That is so obvious that you people wanted to economically strangulate zimbabwe.

You talk of greys inn that long has its roots in the dustbins of history how interesting.It definitely shows that you havent been to Zimbabwe in quite a while.Quite a while my friend.More than five years.more than seven years and worse still more than 9yrs.That is the time greys inn became defunct.so you cannot talk about being a primary/reliable source when clearly your information is of someone who has never set foot in Zimbabwe for more than nine years and worse still relies on other people to feed him with information about home.SECONDARY EVIDENCE.Im sure you know the ramifications to that end.being biased and worse still considering that you are an ex rhodie descendant.Its cool chap.

im not even interested about what happens in Britian and for now i wld rather worry about my own backyard.so british issues are your problem not mine.The problem is you are of no fixed abode!!what is your origin.Born in Zimbabwe but fled after independence due to reasons known to you.

how can you even tell me about making assumptions based on colour of skin.Its obvious that you would use words and the action part you have to leave that out because we`ve never met and you dont know me.So what you only have are words.The good thing is I have not disputed your claim about this racism issue.All i have done is to simply challenge the stance of your pieties when it comes to issues that affect my country and our people.When we tell you that we do not accept your statements and lectures on democracy and stand against your dormineering act you then call us/me racists.THAT IS HIP RANK HYPOCRISY MY FRIEND.Like i said yours is subtle racism.Why do you see that speck in your brother`s eye and you dont see that log in your eye.The fact that you have friends and probably family back home is a clear sign that Zimbabwe is still a safe destination and even better the fact that you want to travel to Zim is an even better and clear sign that you know it is safe.Nzara chete.Indhlala kuphela mfowethu.issues of food yes are a problem.but life goes on and we know one day all shall be well. Watch and listen this weekend a turning point in the history of Zimbabwe.

Another thing, you do not always need someone to say something to conclude their stance.They have to imply.Which is what i have also done with regards to your statements but at the end of the day we are all guilty of making assumptions.It takes a lot to call someone a blatant racist.Read on it my friend.I advise you to do that hey.You need actions to substantiate that my friend.please stop making that mistake.That is why i have gone only as far as saying you display the traits of a subtle racist.Chete BHURURU>I have to go now shamwari i have too many assignments to take care off.I do not get a degree or paid to do this.But have a pleasant evening.I will send my golbin to pull out your heart in the evening my friend.I practice black magic.

Pulling your leg.I dont want you to start losing sleep over this.Regards, Greenbomber

Greenbomber, I have 2 questions for you. With the risk of wasting my time here, I'm make these really simple.

1) If Mugabe had allowed a free and fair election that was internationally recognised as free and fair, through international observers, with no retribution if people voted for the MDC, no police or military forced to vote for Mugabe, no beatings, torture etc. So a vote that truely reflected the will of the people. My question is, under this scenario, would there be a need to place sanctions on Zimbabwe?

My point is, you complain about sanctions etc, but you dont ask yourself why. If Mugabe respected the outcome of a free and fair election, then the world would accept him as a leader. And people would be happy to trade freely. You cant expect people to work with a leader who has blatantly beaten and murdered his own people to keep power, because by doing so, you are condoning that sort of behaviour. It says to other African leaders, if I'm you're going to rig your election, if you're going to beat your own people, then there are consequences. Now you're probably going to give me some speil about the land reform program, and the west hates mugabe for that. What a load of bollocks. The west does not want to redistribute the land back to whites. Thats just lies your government tells you to create an enemy and thus a need for itself. The point is, you cant expect people to lend you money, to invest in your country, to work with you, when you beat, maim, rape and torture your own people. Because that would be condoning that behaviour. Its not just free money!

awt im sure you`ve heard of something called tautology.That is what you have just done in your two questions.How can you repeat the same thing?That should be a problem.I will respond with rhetorical questions and maybe you may decide to counter which i know you will probably do.You talk of the 20,000 pple that Mugabe had murdered in 1980s.more than 24yrs ago to be precise. im sure u know wht happened after that in 1987.Unity accord.This same person went on to win elections democratically for another 5more terms.Were they rigged then????????These people were being beaten then and now and they still were voting for the same person.That is crap my friend. The hundred and twenty people you talk of (MDC)supporters who were murdered.Its interesting that only MDC supporters were the ones who were victims of violence yet the parties involved recently signed a document with regards to the violence issue saying that they call upon their supporters to desist from the violence that they had been perpetrating.Im sure u do know that on the 29th of march a house belonging to zanu pf candidate was burnt down but once again this was not an issue.Last year after MDC leaders had been beaten your people went on to throw petrol bombs in a freedom train in harare that had innocent women and children.They still went on to blow up three police stations using petrol bombs malbereign, hatfield and the kambuzumba police station.Still your trusted media never said anything about this.The 120 people u claim were killed are MDC supporters and this information comes from the law enforcers called MDC right?Once again if you have been watching S.A.B.C news reporter THULA SIZWE SIMELANE clearly states that according to mdc, they are claims that so and so number of their supporters have been killed.But what if some of these people who are dead have been victims of a crime not related to politics, what if some of them were ZANU.I do not know of ZANU PF supportets being killed.What crap is that?

Then you people have been going on and on about Zim elections not being free and fair and even when we were approaching the 29th of march you were still saying the same thing and all of a sudden you have faith in the same system that you people say was and has not been free and fair.Stop the double standards please. I deny your claims because some of these beatings and tortures that you mention were never reported and proven according to the state police. So whatever the Media from outside say i will not buy considering that right from the onset their agenda has been a regime change.This clearly will never happen for as long as you live my friend.

Did Mugabe not respect the outcome of the elections on the 29th of March??????By the way the same ZEC that you pple go on and on about as being pro government was formulated by the amendment to section 27 of the constitution with regards to our electoral act.three of the commissioners in ZEC were CHERRY PICKED my friend by MDC the SAME way that ZANU did the same with THREE and one was recommended by parliament.

Question when did the west stop accepting Mugabe as a world leader my friend.When did they start their sanction campaign on Harare.Way before the first disputed elections-2002.They sanctioned him first in 1998.this was soon after the land jostlings.Then came ZIDERA which was passed in 2001.Was that a response to elections or to the land issue?????Answer that question my friend.To give me a proper answer look at the act itself and then we can start talking.

How long did the west take to act on Rwanda after the Genocide, how long did it take to act on Sudan and how long did it take them to act on Somalia?But when their kith and kin had been kicked out with a few being murdered thy acted fast.When it was so obvious that elections had been rigged in kenya, did they condemn Mwai Kibaki???No they didn`t. they only expressed concern over the violence and tried mediating.The situation in Kenya does not even come close to the Zimbabwean situation and still people like you go on and on about Zimbabwe.

Like i said to you earlier on there is no conditon that is permanent and whether you like it or not bob is not going anywhere and the most interesting thing is to see how the west will take the new agreement between MDC and ZANU.will you disown your son Morgan????i wonder.The condition you people gave is to have Bob`s head on a silver platter.I wonder if that will ever happen??? I support the principle of ZANU PF and it displays the true pan african fashion.

Sanctions on a bank, on a national company.those are certainly double standards my friend.Think of the implications. Bob will get his forex,he will get his fuel his electricity and his bread.It is the proverbial grass of Zimbabwe that will suffer.Then you call that human rights.That is bull shit. They thought the people will turn against the gvt.Well they did on the 29th of march and were mature enough to do it through the ballot box as they have always done it.MDC called for a strike and people snubbed it and when he pulled out they felt betrayed.Zimbabweans will never take up arms because they know its not worth it.

Laslty how did they force the army and police to vote for them when the same police and army were being accused of having snipers and perpetrating violence.These again are claims from Mdc.hogwash dont you think???

Let it sink in your thick skull my friend that Mugabe is not going anywhere.Live with it.IF you can`t,then go hang.your words or voice of reasoning as you claim is falling on deaf ears.Finish and clara

Greenbomber, I am fully aware of tautology. Pretty basic english really, so you dont impress me. But seeing that my 2 questions were very very different, I am surprised you were dumb enough to think they were the same. Actually, given some of your other posts I'm not surprised.

Here they are for you again. 1) How can you support and condone a man who beats and murders his own people to keep power? 2) If Mugabe had allowed free and fair elections, would there be a need for sanctions?

How you could confuse these 2 very different questions as the same just shows your lack of intellect.

But I'm also not surprised you avoided answering the questions and went off on an unrelated tangent though. So the questions still stand, can you please answer them and not go off on a tangent?

Its interesting to see that you dont deny that Mugabe was responsible for those 20,000 peoples deaths, yet you continue to support him. What kind of person supports a genocidal maniac? I think you need to take a look in the mirror and question your own sense of humanity.

As for violence from both sides, I agree this has happened, but its different when a government unleashes a campaign of violence against its people to intimidate them and force their votes, than one that is purely retaliating against an oppressive force.

Bottom line is that if Mugabe had allowed the run off election to happen freely and fairly and without intimidation, then there would be no violence from MDC supporters. There was no need. When you know you have the numbers of the people behind you (as shown in the first election) then why not just go to the run off, no violence, and let people vote how they want to vote? They had the numbers and should have had the run off election. Mugabe knew this, and knew he had to force people through intimidation to change their votes. You cannot deny any of this logic.

But for Zimbabweans, MDC supporters, to unleash the violence that you speak off, did you ever stop to ask yourself what must drive a person to do these things? People dont do those sort of things, unless they are really pushed. So ask yourself what pushed them. And if you answer this honestly you'll find that retaliation is the number 1 reason.

As for the first election being free and fair, well I actualy doubt it alot. Its funny how it took 4 weeks to release a result isnt it. And its also funny how when you tallied the votes from each polling station released on the day, this gave over 50% to MDC. Strange how it all of a sudden took 4 weeks to release the result. Very clever of Mugabe to not change the result enough to give him the out right win though, that would have been too obvious. Just enough to give him a shot at the run off and then unleash the terror to win it.

And you cant tell me that Mugabe did not expressly say that the bullet is stronger than the pen and therefor implying that if the MDC won the run off their would be a coup. You cant tell me that if the MDC won the run off, that Mugabe would have happily sat down. You dont beat and murder your own people only to sit down if you lose. You beat more people till you get your own way. Mugabe is a petulant child afterall.

Did you see the SADC and the AU both agreed that the run off was neither free not fair due to the intimidation of voters? It makes me laugh how selective your memory is.

As for what is happening in Suday, Rwanda, Kenya etc, are you saying that Mugabe should be allowed to murder and beat his own people because others are doing worse elsewhere?

Dont you think allowing a politician to murder and beat his own people to keep power sets a dangerous precident for the rest of Africa?

And after all that people like you have said about the MDC and Tsvangarai being puppets of the west and all they want to do is redistribute the land back to the whites, how do you feel that Mugabe is now going to give this man the Prime Minister position?

And why is he doing this? I mean, he, and you, believe that he has a clear mandate to rule Zimbabwe, so why does he now choose to share this power with someone he clearly despises so much? Must be hard for you to swollow eh. Mugabe clearly admitting that his presidency is illegimate by giving power to the opposition. If mugabe truely believe he had a clear mandate from the people to lead Zimbabwe then he wouldnt be giving power to someone he has hated for so long now would he? I am actually loving this. Knowing that Mugabe is being forced to give his power to the opposition, the true winners of the election. And I would love to see the look on your face when this gets announced. Because the bottom line is, the MDC has won. And I will have a big smile on my face when this happens.

Lastly, in regards to this piece of shit comment: Laslty how did they force the army and police to vote for them when the same police and army were being accused of having snipers and perpetrating violence.These again are claims from Mdc.hogwash dont you think???

Given the secret video smuggled out of Zim taken by a prison guard showing his boss making sure each employee ticked the correct box, and that the military said that if the soldiers wanted to keep their jobs they should vote Mugabe its quite obvious dont you think? Quite basic for the average person, but clearly difficult for you.

Finish and clara back at you big boy.

scarcity mentality, tunnel vision or condomsized brain,thats what you are displaying.i think i am waisting my time with these triplets here.Your mother had a tough time giving birth to these moving fountains of knowledge(claimed title).The Gods of democracy and intelligence as they claim.I beg Allafrica.com to offer you degrees for this Job well done.At least you deserve a token of appreciation for being champions of democracy. Despite the killings people still went to vote for Bob for five terms my friend.We are all silly right??those who voted for him were foolish.Same goes for the 2,5mil people who voted for him on the 27th.you seem to be in a delusional state.Bob is not relinqushing power to Morgan as you suggest.He is merely bringing them on board for the greater good of zimbabwe.For progress sake if that clarifies the point.Bob will still remain with partial executive powers and obviously as the president and according to the resolution with major power.So deal with that.Then your father Bush and his fagget partner Brown are the ones who should end up in ICC. Bob is here to stay and deal with it.Rational people put aside their differences for the general good of the population which is what Bob and Morgan have done.Violence is violence you condomsized brain.you cannot justify it.Why talk of them retaliating.In this instance you are actually condoning it and hence you are saying the violence that you claim Bob to have unleashed was right because he used it as a tool to cling to power.The MDC supporters used it as a tool to defend themselves. you doubting the election to be free and fair makes no difference in Zimbabwe.U are a tiny dot in the world and your contribution does not even matter in Zimbabwe so you can go hang.A prison guard having a video.Having been given a video to take a clip of all this to feed people with shallow minds like you to buy.How come Tendai Biti was in the Video and where were the superiors when this video was being made.dont be that shallow. You buy whatever shit you are fed with.I dont blame you. Since you say the elections were not free and fair in march so MDC never won.For you own advice you kant, results were only announced after they had been collated and verified by all parties involved.If they didnt agree with them then it would mean back to the drawing board to verify the results.They were only announced after all parties had assented to them.Let that sink in your skull.The composition of ZEC also comes into play here, out of seven commissioners three had been cherry picked by mdc the same way that Zanu chose their three.one came from parliament`s behest and then about the 50% you are talking off.Visit the MDC website and it will show you that your teaboy never got the required majority.he was even asked about it on 3rd degree in South Africa and he was stammering about it.Why would its own website lie about this.Even independent organisations clearly said his votes were not enough to make him president. Awt goodluck.Im tired of this.I call again on allafrica to give you people Doctorates degrees for all this.This is not even productive.Dj,Phiri,Aka and Wales, lets leave these people who are paid to get angry on behalf of America and Britain to go on and on about being intellectuals and champions of democracy.You certainly do a good job of it.in your Resume` you should write this as your hobby.get a life.im out yes i give up i cant keep up with this.i dont get paid for this. LONG LIVE BOB THOUGH AND YOU WILL NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT HIM.LIVE WITH IT.

Once again you jump to your silly assumptions. I'm neither british nor american, so couldnt care less what you think of bush or brown. I realise violence is violence and you cant justify it. I'm just saying that Mugabe is responsible as the ZANU-PF instigated the campaign of violence to murder, beat and maim the MDC into submission. And clearly it worked. But I'm not going to waste my time here anymore. Twice I've asked you 2 quite simple questions, and both times you've gone off on a tangent talking out your bum. So answer the questions and show us you support genocide of Zimbwabwean people, and show us that to be a trusted international partner, you have to respect your own people.

Sorry... my second question for you Greenbomber, how can you condone and support a leader who has blatantly beaten, murdered and raped his own people? I'm talking about the 20,000 Ndebele people that Mugabe had murdered and I'm talking about the 120 MDC supporters that were murdered during the election and the many thousand of others that were beated and tortured. If you deny any of these events happened then you are surely an imbecile, so how and why do you condone and support this kind of behavior?

Bitter? The only bitterness I've seen around here is that with which you continue railing on about the west (even to the point of pigeonholing everyone who happens to live there as the same evil, simplistic and completely unreliable methodology)

As for descendant of a Rhodie .... nope, parents were born out of country as was I, and as I have seen things from both sides of the fence (racist and non/anti-racist) during my life, I think that puts me in a decent position to recognise racist diatribe and behaviour in others, and to consciously remove it from my own daily regime.

Bob didn't afford me the choice of where to live, I was pulled out of Zimbabwe before I hit 18, therefore I didn't have a choice in the matter (ok, yes, there is a little bitterness in that, but that is against the set of circumstances that led to leaving, not against Zimbabwe or the general populace)

The original Zim economy up to the point of the Land Redistributions was, in effect, the same as the Rhodesian economy from before it ..... and before you start blowing a fuse think about it ..... same people technically in the same positions running farms and businesses kept the economy stable, but had to be changed in some major way over time. Unfortunately Mugabe decided to go for the immediate gratification style of redistribution ..... and the 'sudden shock' of having farms go from high to low productivity (in some cases near zero productivity) under their new owners hit the economy about as badly as it could get. It didn't help matters that the redistribution in the main relied on cronyism, and placed non skilled people in charge of running farms which they simply could not handle. A better way to have handled it would have been cooperative ownerships of farms, where the skilled owners were kept on the farms in a minority stakeholder role, which would have produced far less of a ripple in the economy, and Zimbabwe would still be up and running today.

There is only one thing I will say on the sanctioning of the journalist you commented on ..... technically that's sanctioning someone from the state, as the Herald is a government run and pure government biased newspaper (and I would suspect that the Journo also has other strings to his bow if he has been targetted, but I couldn't claim that as fact)

hmmmm .... now heres a good illustration of something I said earlier:

"You are the people who constantly preach about freedom of expression and media freedom but you are not practising what you preach by sanctioning a journalist."

Yes, I do indeed believe in freedom of the media and freedom of speech, but I can guarantee you one thing ..... you find every document dealing with that Journo's sanctioning and I'll bet you a million dollars that you won't find MY name anywhere on the documents, therefore I didn't sanction him ..... You can talk about the government doing it, but I didn't do anything of the sort. Blaming everyone in a country for their governments mistakes and crimes is wrong .... If you're going to do it then you, being a subject of Mugabe's government, would have to take personal responsibility for the killing of 'x' thousand Ndebele in the 1980s, and the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people in the various clearance programs through the years ..... and of course that would be a ridiculous charge to level.

To be quite honest, Greys Inn was just the first drinking establishment that popped to mind, I've never asked anyone about it when I've talked to them and have never been concerned enough about it to research whether it is still there or not, so technically the information I'm working with on that point is way older than you suggest ..... over 20 years old ..... I tend to talk with my friends in country more on important matters than whats still around from when I was there ..... you see, thats the past, and while it is never forgotten theres no use in dredging it up every 2 minutes and surrounding myself with 'what was' I much prefer looking at 'what is' and how to help make it better.

And if you are so uninterested as to what happens in Britain, why do you keep bringing it up?

Next bit I'm going to do the point by point answering bit again, so watch out for the speech marks this time:

"how can you even tell me about making assumptions based on colour of skin.Its obvious that you would use words and the action part you have to leave that out because we`ve never met and you dont know me.So what you only have are words.The good thing is I have not disputed your claim about this racism issue.All i have done is to simply challenge the stance of your pieties when it comes to issues that affect my country and our people.When we tell you that we do not accept your statements and lectures on democracy and stand against your dormineering act you then call us/me racists.THAT IS HIP RANK HYPOCRISY MY FRIEND."

One point in there, you say that I call you racist because you do not accept my statements, I would challenge that and say I call you racist because you are always commenting on the west as one evil entity without differentiating between governments and the people, and you have also classed white as the big evil too without making differentiations ..... as those are the actions of a racist or a fool, then I call you racist because I do not believe you fit the other category

"Like i said yours is subtle racism.Why do you see that speck in your brother`s eye and you dont see that log in your eye."

I would ask you the same, however I would ask it differently ..... Why is it you see the speck in your brothers eye, and also blame him for the log in your eye?

"The fact that you have friends and probably family back home is a clear sign that Zimbabwe is still a safe destination and even better the fact that you want to travel to Zim is an even better and clear sign that you know it is safe."

Not quite correct, My friends have never left, yet a couple of them have sent their families to SA .... does that sound like even they believe it is safe to you? As for me travelling there ..... that'll be when I get the go-ahead from the ground.

"issues of food yes are a problem.but life goes on and we know one day all shall be well."

And the reasons behind the issues of food, until they are accepted and addressed, will continue to prevent things from 'all being well' (hint: stop believing everything RGM tells you and look at what even you put in your post)

"at the end of the day we are all guilty of making assumptions."

True, and I hold my hands up to that, however I try not to make sweeping statements based on zero, for instance the assumptions of my origin and thoughts.

"It takes a lot to call someone a blatant racist."

not really, all it really takes is watching somebody make race based comments like 'honky tonky', rather a simple process at times.

"That is why i have gone only as far as saying you display the traits of a subtle racist."

Subtle racists will only ever display traits, and there will always be reasonable doubt over the truth of whether they are or not, but overt racism is obvious, and cannot realistically be misconstrued as anything else.

"I will send my golbin to pull out your heart in the evening my friend.I practice black magic.

Pulling your leg.I dont want you to start losing sleep over this.Regards, Greenbomber"

lol, scared of Goblins ..... or Golbins (are they better or worse than Goblins?)? They can't get me while my ti bon ange stays with me at night.

Will ICC ever suggest putting President Bush on Trial?

Mugabe must face trial, we owe it to all of the people who have lost their lives and livelyhoods due to the premeditated acts of barbarism by his government.

http://justiceforzimbabwefoundation.com/8.html

Only if George Bush ,the demon devil be tried for his deeds. Here in America we think he is the worst leader ever.Six years looking for an Atomic bomb like we dropped on the

Japs.He's trying to think of something before he check out .I think he want Isreal to do his dirty work.We know who killed 6,000,000 people,not the Arabs.Because of him we're paying over $4.00 a gallon for gas.Don't worry about Mugabe,Mbeki is doing a good job.They need to do it in Shona or Ndebele and let the next president of the US take of Bush (BLUNDERS). Peace and Love.U.S.A. Owiej Liebo. Tarboro,N.C.

Again the ignorance shows , go ask your Arab terrorist brothers why oil is so high , if America is so bad , go back where you came from. Bush has worked hard to keep people like you safe , go back to Africa or where ever you come from , some poor American slob is probably working long hours to help you, ingrate ! It is useless trying to debate stupidity. Ignorance can be excused , but STUPIDITY ?

The South African Institute of International Affairs is off base and does not represent the interests of Africans. It is located in Cape Town South Africa, where white anglos dominate with an imperial attitude. Racists clashes in Cape Town are not uncommon. Blacks in Cape Town province are treated like dirty and second class citizens. And somehow this institute is suppossed to understand Africans in the eyes of post-aparthied white anglo Professors leading this institute. Why only people from this racists institute are given the opportunity to be guest writers for Africans? Why not from the University of Nigeria or Cairo or Ghana, of Uganda. This bias against Africans in preference for white anglo minority led institutes surprises me.

I challenge Allafrica.com to use other guests outside of Southern Africa. It is real not honest to use the institute in Cape Town. Black students have a problem even to enjoy the hard fought liberty by Mandela. Aha...Mandela is only used for praises and fake admirations!

Yarik Turianskyi, what kind of ass...Surely,doesn't sound like an Afrakan writing for Afrakan readers. And this captivated mind of the South African Institute of International Affairs, certainly, does not deserve more than a moment of my attention. Regrettably, I'd have to give him one. Yarik Turianskyi can't help it but evil men like this alien living on Afrakan soil, will always remain evil!

Who is judging who here? Why do these white powders beleive humans are dead in reasoning? Look at Africa a vast continent full of resources, yet still lavishing in poverty.Whenyou're under exploiting resources it's always behind the media. when it comes of giving the under deserve string attached help (AIDS) the camera is being lowered beneath the tombs so that even the deaths should know about it.Why Mugabe? because of disparity amongst humans you labelled him bad., What has he done? the citizens of Zimbabwe should understand their suffering came from England and her allies, Show me how an african can obtain a piece of land in England, not to talk of farming it. Kiling isn't the worse crime. Physical killing is the worse. after exploiting the deprived ones accord a new name(africans) Racist, illegal immigrants and all what not. On the otherhand you orchestrate these insane so call leaders of Africans that you'll safeguard the money gotton from them at the expense of their citizen's soul in your accounts whilst those that refuse to comply you call them traitors. Why do you encourage these leaders to save in your country ? Mugabe is Bad, the innocent souls against their wills dying in Iraq, Pakistian, and the rest are caused by the Good leaders like George Bush, Gordon Brown and the rest. Where's the court to try these ugly bastards? oh is it because the family od those deceased are far below the human level?

I can answer one of your questions in extremely simple terms, and the answer is one that is tried and tested:

"Show me how an african can obtain a piece of land in England, not to talk of farming it."

The answer to that is the same as anyone else wanting to obtain a piece of land in England, they buy it. As for farming it, that takes knowledge and skill, the two things that were not thought about in the short sighted and economically suicidal way that the land reforms were conducted.

After reading the ridiculous comments of most of these morons , it becomes clear to me why Africa is a disgrace to the world. The intelligence level is NIL ! There is no way to reason with ignorance . Sadegh Ghotzbadeh tried to defend the wickedness of the Ayatollah and lost his head by the same, let these fools defend Mugabe and watch the dog eat its own puppies. You Rhodesian types were too nice to these scum , when they hurt the innocent locals you should have poured honey on them tied them to ant hills.

AMEN baasi. Try it if you can. You must be a sorry site.

Don't have to try it ! The Great Nkosi will root out idiots who support murderers like Mugabe and punish them in His own way ! People like you rob from Zimbabwe by displaying your ignorance and don't call me "baasi" , I not your mate !

instead of you saying there is no point in reasoning with ignorance why not just say there is no reason without ignorance which you clearly have demonstrated.The good thing is you hear us loud and clear and you can shout all you want.we outsmarted you in your own game of dividing and conequering. Try it and we shall show you that we do not kow tow to your ignorant ideals of democracy.We fought for our democracy and we are willing to do it again.continue wallowing in your grandeur state and ignorance.YOU SHALL WALLOW IN YOUR BLISSFUL IGNORANCE.The fact that some of our fellow brothers are doing well in America is a clear sign that we have the potential.I bet a million bucks your are probably a till operator wherever you are and you dare lecture us on IQ. Go hang a thousand times on Zimbabwe. you have tried and Zimbabwe is head strong.You will never change my ZIMBABWE> LONG LIVE GUSHUNGO>BOB

The more one reads your ridiculous diatribe , the more one knows why Africa is in such a mess from Cape to Cairo. You are the only "individual " shouting, the rest of you know empty vessels make the most noise. I still say , I wish whites had never gone to Africa , you morons with no boundries would be sitting on a huge sandbox eating lizards , wearing mbetchus , selling one another into slavery with your Arab "brothers". You stole , raped , looted and plundered under your "great tribal system " and are still doing it, only using all the technology from the west you claim you much hate ! Why can't you lot invent anything except hatred ? I maybe the operater of a till , but it is at least honest work and I'm not raping , looting and plundering from innocent people. I don't have to try anything with you because the Great Nkosi will handle fools like you and the scum you consort with. Besides , you would only get hurt ! The only reason blacks do well in the rest of the world is because "mukiwa" gave him a chance , not black despots who rule by the barrel of the gun and in time history will tell the truth , you never won the war , you had a jewel given to you according to Nyerere by politcians from the same countries you so despise. The school system and economy were what you inherited from Southern Rhodesia , NOT Bob's doing, we can already see the toilet paper money of Zimbabwe being flushed. So don't hold yourself in any esteem ! It has been a great laugh reading all of your ridiculous rubbish and only serves to prove what I have seen as to why Africa is in such a mess. ADIOS AFRIKA AND ISHE KOMBERA AFRIKA !

I would disagree with that, as it would have only escalated the violence to the point where what you see today is but a shadow of the reality it would have been.

The only way to try to bring humanity and sense (common sense, not what most here would class as a 'western' version of values) to the people who can only see Mugabe as the hero he was is to use reason ..... a temperamental weapon, because there will always be those who hang on to the propaganda they have been indoctrinated with to the exclusion of all else ..... including sense and humanity.

Rhodesia is gone, and thats a good thing, but Zimbabwe is being recreated as a negative image of Rhodesia ..... replace white with black and vice versa ..... and as such is proven to be no better than the regime they replaced, despite their promises of tolerance and unity.

Timberwolf, did the British buy our land from us when they took it in the 1980s. you have standardised everything and then you want us to protect propery rights that benefit your kith and kin yet our people were kicked out of their land and they have to but it back. What arrogance is that. The british should have funded the land redistribution program but they thought that Zimbabweans were desperate and content with being fed and only being employees while they could have controled their resources. furthermore considering that what was promised to them in 1979 during the lancaster conference had not been honoured. 1997 was a turning point in Zimbabwe. The 5th of November to be specific. I agree that we were not prepared for this because 80% of our Agriculture was funded by FDI. a lot of money hand been pumped into Zimbabwe by the danish and Swedish governments for agricultural expertise. It was necessary for us to hit rock bottom and now when we rise we shall rise with a bang. The resources we will control which ever way you people see it. By the way about the slums we boast of having the lowest number of slums in Africa at the same time the highest number of dams in Africa and the world. All this was made possible by that villian. Education rate in Africa is still the best and go to most countries in Africa Zimbabwe are the driving force behind the education and corporate world. bob made it possible.They raped and killed systematically in Kenya worse than Zimbabwe because it was systematic in kenya but you shout at the top of your voice. THE LAND IS OURS WHETHER you like it or not. For those who talk of hunger, you are content with some people putting food on the table for you.Your so called white farmers. If our Zimbabwe is to rise those resettled farmers will play a fundamental role whether you like it or not because the land is theirs and there is no going back. Long live the African Dream. Free market economy my foot.How can you even talk of less Government spending in Africa when poverty has to be eradicated and people have to be empowered. In South Africa, Khayelitsha, Gugulethu and Nyanga have bloody shacks from plastics electrified but go to Sea point camps bay or Even UCT and see how most of these kids are ignorant to the plight of the ordinary person who is a victim of the apartheid injustices. People spend money at willy nilly and yet others are suffering. The West cannot dictate to us what is best for Africa. our solutions should come from within.

ands those who have started propagating this Ndebele massacres, you are foolish.When things were beautiful in the early 90s, people never used to make so much noise all of a sudden shit has hit the fan and you make noise. The unity accord that was signef by ZAPU and ZANU was a way of we are Zimbabweans regardless of our tribes and lets work together to achieve economic prosperity and harmony in Zimbabwe. We moved forward but what our people fought for was not honoured and hence the third chimurenga(LAND ISSUE).I am a shona who was raised in matabeleland and went to Manama mission in Gwanda south.I was learning with Ndebele people and my identity was never a problem.I intergrated quite well and even those who came as far from Mutare and Masvingo never had problems.They learnt the languge quite well.I speak fluent ndebele than shona and only started seeing the ugly face of tribalism now.This is from people outside Zimbabwe and students at South African varsities.I have dated countless Ndebeles and will never have a problem with them. If you are Zimbabwean we are brother and sister regardless of your tribal line. Zimbabwe is still the safest destinations in Africa. you will walk in the streets of Bulawayo and Harare without fearing for your lives as compared to other African States. South Africa comes to mind. being mugged at gun point and what have you. I revel on that. hunger is another issue. LONG LIVE MUGABE LONG LIVE BOB.

what a waste of time it was reading that. Thats 5 mins of my life I wont get back dammit!

you were not forced awt. The fact that you went through it means that you loved reading every single bit of it.I was educating you and thanks for sparing five mins of your time on my contribution.After all is said and done.We are one.This is just business.Politics of the net.MUGABE IS THE MAN

You say that

The fact that you went through it means that you loved reading every single bit of it.

Why do you make up such lies. Does the fact that you are reading this mean that you love every single bit of what I am writing? Dont be such an arrogant fool.

What you wrote was utter tripe. And given that I said that was 5 minutes of my life that I had wasted should surely imply that I didnt love it. It really just comes down to you making these incorrect inductive assuptions. You always seem to assume the wrong thing. Why dont you come back with some facts to back up your arguments rather than just talking out your arsehole and thinking we are dumb enough to fall for it.

And you did educate me. You educated me that some people can just be so brainwashed and beleive everything that people say without question. I'd hate to look in the mirror in the morning and see you.

hey greenbomber..mugabe was selling land to white folk right up until the 11th hour...this land was designated as Govt Not having interest in it..hence....the very same land that he then got his thugs to go and invade!! If he was really interested in returning land to black folk how is it he was briging the libyans with farms in return for fuel and protection??? As makasa asks...why are you guys SO thick on here..after all you have managed to figure out how to switch a pc on and connect to the net!!!!

Turnex have they never told you that when you make a claim you have to substantiate it.Why let you delusional condomsized brain take control of your seat of thought-CEREBRUM. refer to Wayne weiten THEMES and variation.Not that i know about the libyans and the farms for fuel and protection. on the fuel part im sure i cld say that as a president/father figure.he had his people at heart by trying to get them fuel.not that the fuel issue is true.and then the protection part.I do not know of the libyan army being in Zimbabwe.I am sure Chivengwa and his men could do a good job.I am equally trained to do the job.Tichimbochkeyi???I know you understand shona Turnstile gate AKA TURNEX.you are a hard core SWINA MFANA.Ask a ndebele speaking person what that means if you dont know one of the indigenous languages of Zimbabwe.Uzacaphuka uze udubuke.Also look for a ndebele guy to translate that for you.Thank you also for the complement Turnstile gate.im chaffed.im honoured by your words- you said that i have figured how to switch on a computer and connect to the net.That im sure is a sign of how clever and keen i am to empower myself.So for you to say that im thick is an under statement.I am keen to learn and for sure my fellow brothers would have done a good job if your your Gods from the west had not looted my motherland.I can type i can read and better still i can engage with a person who has delusions of being better and i have brought you so low to my level like your God timberwood has claimed.I wonder how it feels to have a disciple like you??Timberwood is a lucky chap i must say.because you praise him to run for presidency in Zimbabwe and you would vote for him.You are an abomination in Africa tuner boy. Hence whatever yo kith and kin can do I can do better despite being black and african which you labelled as being evil and inferior when you partitioned and parceled Africa.Enjoy your evening.

Greenbomber, you are as wet behind the ears, green, raw and without class. UZACAPHUKA UZE UDUBUKE applies to you. It is YOU morons who explode with anger when Turnex and all the other brainy and literate contributors to these posts do not let you and all your other brainwashed Mugabe ass lickers to slide by with your written nonsense. We all know you all lick Mugabe's boots because you know that if you don't, you too will not only have your arms and legs chopped off , but you will wake up in the bushes somewhere with wires tightly strung around your scrotum for good measure. After all the total devastation of your country, to call Mugabe a "father figure" is as low as any imbecile can be. It is laughable even to monkeys.

KJRS 120 aka kill jump run shout 120 times you certainly need help. you claim that turnstile gate is brainy and LITERATE.The opposite goes for me as your statement suggests-you imply that i am illiterate.If it is so then what am i dong right now.You twin brother from the other mother said the same thing about me when he referred to the issue of being able to switch on the computer and connect to the net. For all i know you have a condomsized brain and hence you talk of class.That is what i call signs of superiority that you and your kith and kin always try to display.You definitely have symptomss of narcissictic personality disorder. A person who feels big and thinks they are brainier than others.How can you even start telling me about being brainy when you probably dont even have a bachelors degree, or let alone a doctors degree or a post doctoral degree to be classified as a professor.The same goes to you, while you claim that what i am writing is nonsense i also see the trash that you are posting on this blog in the same light and hence i will also not let the hogwash that you post slide.You wanksters,for all i know you are ever killing on armed struggles in the toilet(MASTURBATING).he is definitely a father figure.My wisdom is not of your Father`s forte or the Western forte.I will associate with my own and that is Bob.Hence he is a father figure.Thats why the world has people like you who would want to cherry pick a leader for us.That has stood challenged in Zimbabwe.You dare tell us that the only gvt u want is a gvt run by Morgan.You are foolish.you cannot dictate to us what is best for Zimbabwe and that can only come from within.You cannot take a western concept and try solve an African problem. You negate our ideals, our values and impose your trash on us.Go hang and lest I remind you we only have one God and that God is in heaven NOT BUSH NOT B-LIAR or brown sugar.We originated from the Apes you tramp. monkeys are probably the next thing close to human beings.You zinjathropus.You are a result of unprotected sex and your mother is a shebeen queen.enjoy your morning.Rgards, yours truly,your brother in ARMS, GREENBOMBER

As for you Greenbomber, enjoy your swinging on trees with your cousins the apes. Judging by the trash you have produced, it really shows you have no class. What an inferiority complex you have. I certainly have great class. I belong to the great class of people that believe all human beings deserve to have their rights of freedom, and right to peace. I do not believe it is right for Mugabe and all his kind to be severing limbs, torturing and applying electric shock by wiring the scrotum, murdering and opening the abdomens of the victims and removing internal organs with wires, hurdling people into their homes and setting them on fire. You call Mugabe a father figure for doing that? I shall repeat. You are a brain-washed, yes, illiterate ass. You see 'education is not books'. As for my mother being a "shebeen queen", hey at least she enjoyed her beer whilst your mother never got paid for her prostitution. Who ever fathered you had a free ride.

Kill jump run shout 120 times. WHY DO YOU SEE THAT SPECK IN YOUR BORTHERS EYE AND YOU DONT SEE THAT LOG IN YOUR EYE??? I SAID TO YOU BEFORE you definitely have symptoms of narcissistic disorder and the fundamental of them being the grandeur that you are displaying.Why blow your own horn.Its is evident that when you were growing up you would try by all means to have your peers sing praise for you and when they didnt you started doing it yourself.Which is what you are doing right now.Okay let me help you YES YOU HAVE CLASS!!!!does that make you happy????it should make you happy. Yes the person who fathered me never paid for the free ride.So would that make my mother a prostitute??????definitely not!!!!!!!!!Unless if that is what you are implying about yourself.From that statement it seems your father paid to make you and that makes you a mistake of prostitution.Your father paid your mother to make you shame.If education is not books what is it???you are stupid??why not say rationality is not books or wisdom is not books.You live in a cardbox.Get out of it my friend.I am also learning i cant help you to that end.I would rather worry about my tribe at home.That is a metaphorical expression.I mean the village(family)all those people back home look up to me to also send them school and give them the opportunity that i have been afforded thanks to the foundation that Bob gave me.the foundation of education.So where did you see this person who had his scrotum shocked and removing of internal organs of someone.I dont know about it and yes i shall wallow in my blissful ignorance.that happens at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.Do your Presidents respect human rights???what are they doing in those torture camps.International law does not apply there, The American law does not Apply there but only Bush`s law applies there.Grow up you fucken twaat. Bollocks.

I thought we are all descendants of these apes.YOU AND I MY FRIEND.you are also my cousin so whatever you say to me applies to you.I do not need class my friend.the only class i have is being able to associate with anyone regardless of their background which is what i am doing with you right now.I have a strong rural background because i am African but that was and has never been a disability.I have lived beyond those ill informed perceptions about Africans.I am African and Proud. You also told wales to take a history book and read about American Civil war.How stupid can you be my friend.A book written by Americans who have self delusions abot being big.At least we(me&wales) hold the same view about our history and that is you came and plundered our resources and you claim africans are free when you continue to treat us like second fiddle.NO NO.That stands challenged.Yehlisa umoya NJA!!!!!!!!!!!!or you are a rhodie and dont understand these indegineous languages.I said take a chill pill you dog. MULTILINGUAL MY FRIEND.you are content knowing one language you are a sardistic fool.you want to teach us about human rights, democracy and so forth,i am challenging you to also take the time to learn about our culture and languages and then maybe we will stop suspecting your intentions. "FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE" word of advice you moving accident, "Greatness is not found in position, possession,power or prestige.It is found in character, humility and great service!"So stop blowing your own horn.Please PLEASE

I've never seen so much writing with so little content.

Greenbomber, you are one entertaining poster. Your posts totally emasculates these anti-Mugabe imbeciles. Please keep up the good work because it's fun reading your posts.

entertaining because I've never seen someone speak so much bullshit. I wonder if there is a category in the guinness book of records we could nominate Greenbomber for...

Actually my post severely understated the full value of Greenbomber's posts. Not only are they entertaining, they are also knowledgeable, truthful, intelligent, comprehensive, informative and in-your-face, all of the things make them great to read.

dLoser, when you've finished masterbating Greenbomber, I hear Kube is a bit lonely in New Zealand...

"dLoser, when you've finished masterbating Greenbomber, I hear Kube is a bit lonely in New Zealand..."

I don't know what masterbating is, but why don't you go take care of Kube's needs, since this apparently your thing, mofo!

dLoser, comebacks should be witty. You didnt quite get there this time, but you might want to remember that for next time.

I'll just directly answer the one point from your post there GB:

"The british should have funded the land redistribution program but they thought that Zimbabweans were desperate and content with being fed and only being employees while they could have controled their resources. furthermore considering that what was promised to them in 1979 during the lancaster conference had not been honoured."

The British governments were funding the land redistribution, under the proviso that the land was distributed fairly to the population with no favour or fear. This simple stricture was not adhered to when Mugabe started passing the farms to his buddies and letting them turn to wasteland, so under those circumstances the funding was withheld, and then finally withdrawn. Therefore it was Mugabes actions which led to the loss of funding (but of course it was spun as a great western plot). And just as a final point on this funding issue, most of the funding that was given to the Zimbabwe government for the land redistributions never got to the people it was intended for ..... I wonder where it could have gone?

And as for your first passage, that was nothing to do with the question that I was answering, nor was it anything to do with the answer ..... I answered the question "Show me how an african can obtain a piece of land in England, not to talk of farming it." asked by whyb45. If you were to link that with your passage, it would indicate that Zimbabweans were kicked off land in England in the 1890s ..... and just for your information, I agree with the land reforms for the most part ..... what I disagree with is the short sighted and economically suicidal way in which they were done, and then the way that Zimbabwes collapse has been blamed on everything but that. Can a doctor cure a disease if he refuses to acknowledge the symptoms? The same goes for Zimbabwe ..... how can the economy be healed until the root cause of what has made it collapse is acknowledged and addressed?

I can tell that you are proud of your ignorance with regards to the land issue. where do you leave the ten year clause under the lancaster agreement?Where do you leave the state,"Britain shall have the sole mandate with regards to the land redistribution..."for Seventeen years Britain had been dealing in good Faith with Zimbabwe and when i say britain in this case i am referring to the conservatives-Margaret Thatcher and John Major.BUT came the labour party1997. they said they would only deal with Zimbabwe based on their WHITE PAPER. This happened in 1997. THIS IS THE SAME TIME THAT CLAIRE SHORT(DWARF) WROTE TO OUR THEN MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE Kumbirai Kangai. actually it was on the 5th november 1997 and said Britian was not indebted to zimbabwe with regards to the land redistribution programme.She specifically mentioned that she was of irish descent and she was colonised and not a coloniser. THAT WAS A TURNING POINT IN ZIMBABWE.THE BLAIR TOILET GOVT messed up big time.When you say they cut funds because Mugabe`s and his cronies were sharing land amongst themselves your wisdom is certainly questionable. ACCORDING TO RAJAN SONI, a development independent consultant from Britian, THE Labour govt cut financial ties with Bob to frustrate his efforts to empower his people.they wanted the people in the rural areas to turn against him because he had not delivered his promise of land.This is a person who had been hired by the Conservative Govt for 13yrs dealing with the Zimbabwean GVT with regards to the land issue and when the toilet gvt came in, things changed. Get your facts straight my friend.they never said anything about free and fair.

Your Queen gave him the second highest title in your land because he was towing the line and in the hope that he would protect white interests. Why buy our land back.You kicked us out and all of a sudden you tell us to protect property rights of a few.That is hogwash in the highest degree.We kicked your kith and kin out and we could do it again because Zimbabwe is a sovereign state. We will never buy that land from your kith and kin.To pay for the developments yes but anything more than that ask BLAIR TOILET TO DO so.

I'll ask this again, as you seem to have missed it in my last post:

"Why buy our land back.You kicked us out and all of a sudden you tell us to protect property rights of a few."

Where did I say that? I wasn't talking about land in Zimbabwe when I was answering the question by Whyb45 ..... And looking at ignorance and arrogance here, you use a conservative biased source to prove a point against a labour government .... how stupid can you get?

Thats like quoting a purely MDC source to prove a point against ZANU .... of course they're going to play the other side down BECAUSE THEY ARE RIVALS.

Get with the programme GB, and drop that chip off your shoulder ..... you're nothing but an overt racist, and as such you're part of the problem and not part of the solution.

BRAVO!!!! BRAVO timberwolf...would you run for president please???...of zimbabwe!!!!

Greenbomber is doing a fantastic job here and I do thank him from the bottom of my heart. I agree with him. Who is to say that Mugabe does not have support in Zimbabwe? Mugabe is one of the most educated clever man in Africa. Mugabe became more smart by learning the white men’s ways – learning his game and taking it to him. If you want to build success you go to someone who has succeeded and ask for the blue print. Mugabe learned that the first order of business is taking land. What is the proper way to take land? Again Mugabe went to the Rhodesian, American and British blue prints: you take and kill if you have too. And there is no so called the right way. These white people here that like to criticize Mugabe must study their own history carefully. They hate Mugabe because he plays their game well. They try to tell us that Mugabe is a killer as if they haven’t killed each other in the west. They forget that they were killing each other like flies in the Second World War and also the American Civil War. The Americans used brutal means to suppress black Americans civil rights. Some of the footage will make Mugabe look like a Saint. So let it be known that some of us Zimbabweans will not take it anymore. We will fight side by side with Bob to preserve that which we have gained. Zimbabwe will always be free.

Wales before you make a bigger fool of yourself, take a history book and find out why the American Civil War and the Second World WAR took place. Mugabe is just a sadistic mass murderer. A piece of garbage.

kjrs120, We can’t be fooled anymore. We know your kind which thinks this way: When white people kill each other in wars and terrorism you apologize for it and think that there is some really good reason for it. When the US and its allies invade Iraq based on lies causing the death of millions and loosen suicide bombers in the streets of Iraq it is all good. When black people have conflicts with each other and kill each other you demonize them. We know your kind of bullshit and we cant be fooled anymore. We know how you have built your countries and you are in no position to lecture us on anything. I know history very well, Hitler was white, was he not? He killed millions. According to your western standards of brutality you should just leave Mugabe alone. American Civil war was fought over slavery. For a people that pride themselves with centuries of civilization to have been practicing slavery at that time is a shame indeed. You must be ashamed of yourself to say that Mugabe is, ‘a sadistic mass murderer. A piece of garbage.” Real garbage and mass murderers are in Washington (white house) and London (#10 Downing street,) and that is where you should go and vent your anger. You are not fooling anyone here because we know your garbage.

Greenbomber, how would you like me to begin my post by calling YOU "Nja mgodoyi? (lower status than a dog) I criticized Mugabe and you for supporting him but instead you started calling my mother a "shebeen queen". When I criticized yours in return you cannot take it. You see you lot are always calling us names such as dickheads and you name it, and you expect me to take it lying down? No way. If you cannot take it then don't give it. If I hurt your feelings by saying that your father had a free ride, I am sorry. He must have given your mother a bar of soap or packet of sugar for her effort. "I thought we were descendants of these apes", speak for your self pal. As you have thrown in God here and there, I believe that at the very time your mother's ovum was fertilized, GOD created you. If you want to go and swing with Darwin and the apes, hey leave me out of it. Going back to your raving and ranting and stupid nonsense because you were not praised for supporting your dead-beat leader Mugabe, I never said anything derogatory about your African race. As a proud African, you should be spending all your energy in trying to raise the status of your country and you should be protecting your African brothers and sisters from Mugabe's wrath. You should be working night and day to return home all those who have run away from your country because of all the hardships imposed on them by Mugabe. If you the young generation does not understand the concept of human existence with freedom and peace, then there is no hope for the future of Africa. "Education is not books" is an ADAGE meaning one can be wise and brilliant without book-learning. as for the terrible violence against MDC supporters that you say you not know about, well come to think of it, you know all about violence in other parts of the world ,and yet you know nothing about what is going in Zimbabwe? Censorship or no censorship, who are you kidding? Ever heard of a form of torture called FALANGA? Go to Mazoe and talk to relatives of dead MDC supporters. By the way "Yehlisa umoya" does not mean take a pill. It means calm down.

you son of a shebeen queen who said i expected you to take it in that stride when i was using all types of inuendos at my disposal???Having already been told by YOU that you are a person of class,brainy and intelligent it made sense that you were definitely going to retaliate.But once again, i disagree with you when you say that you only criticised me for supporting Mugabe.You are lying you farty.You also insulted.So you people who are against Mugabe are holier than thou??Its you people who have gone on a frenzy insulting those people who sympathise with Bob.It follows that we will do the same.I never called you a dickhead once again.Go through all my posts and you will notice i never used that word but seeing to it that you have made a suggestion to me YES YOU DICKHEAD!!!!

Definitely my father had a free ride the only thing that he paid was lobola or dowry.Thats all.If you father paid for the thirty seconds to make you its still fine.you are human.We also accept moving accidents in this world and i hope and pray that your father did play a role in your upbringing.

About the wisdom part did you get to scrutinise your statement before you posted it?That is exactly what i said about education That wisdom is not about books.You go on to repeat it.But considering your condition of being of class and delusional about being an important person i agree that you want to go out of your way to prove to me that you are intelligent and of class and hence you try to make me see what has already been said and is obvious.Maybe in this case you might not be only suffering from a personality disorder.you might even be having a serious condition like schizophrenia.Paranoid schizophrenia to be specific.get help my friend.Im serious.Thanks for telling me about the form of tortue called falanga.What language is that my friend?Mazoe is Mashonaland Central and that sounds like kalanga.Kalanga speaking people are found in mat south plumtree to be specific hey.Which is about six hundred km away from mazoe and where does that word come in, in a place like that???educate me please.

Also on the part of schizophrenia.delusional bafoon,you cannot even quote what i said.it only takes just looking and reading.you see things that are not there it seems.i said yehlisa umoya means taking a chill pill in colloquial english.chill out dude in other words.i never said take a pill.Heyi baba udinga uncedo. It seems you have been to mazoe yourself on a fact finding mission.well done.Darwinism my friend is a theory by academics.they is empirical evidence to prove this hence africa being home to the craddle of mankind.

Lastly whatever inuendo you use will not change my body temperature or let alone affect my affiliation to Bob.It will not even kill bob.The thing is that you have to start livng with the fact that Bob is not going anywhere.Live with it. So chief once again yehlisa umoya, go see a shrink and start living with the fact that BOB is not going anywhere.Watch and listen in the coming few days.Explode if you want to that is not my problem.Ndapedza newe chindingoveni.Im waiting for that new declaration between MDC and ZANU and like i said to you.I will take part in rebuilding zimbabwe for Zimbabweans as a change agent of zanu.Im tired of your blogs.I dont get paid for this saka enjoy your contributions.You seem to share a mother with awt and timberwood.Ganging up on me or anyone who sympathises on bob.Who said your perspective is the holy truth.Learn to live with it because we are here to stay.Yes Mfundi.Wena wezulu.imi makadzidza.The learned one the one of class.I hero worship you.Ngiyakota isihlama sako baba.

I personally think that you have emotional problems GB, because you seem (a little like your beloved Bob) to be a little too quick to blame others for your own shortcomings ..... trying to discredit people by lumping them together, and then claiming someone else is the 'paranoid schizophrenic' one, while in near enough the same breath claiming that people are ganging up on you specifically (one of the best instances of paranoia I've seen from you so far).

It's a shame that you don't get paid for this GB, because the royalty rights alone would make you a rich man when the stand up comedians get their hands on your posts ..... hell, they might even give you a prime time slot as a ventriloquists dummy (well, some sort of dummy), GreenBomber, the new 'Ahmed the Dead Terrorist'.

same goes to you my friend for implying that everyone who sympathises with bob and criticises the west is racist.that is also paranoia.Like i said to you before, im not even shocked about your stance because whoever you were staying with at the barracks was a murderer.He/she was a rhodie soldier.You probably had a farm and they took it away from you.I understand why you are bitter my friend.You then left Zim soon after because you stated it has been more than twenty years.Obviously your parents could not swallow the pill of the new tide.You and your family could not stomach it.I dont blame you.For your own information i have benefited immensely from being Zimbabwean especially under the Mugabe regime.The education, opportunities and even a farm my friend. Ndima tirikurova sendima. Mr right and his disciples.Thick headed timberwood.I dont blame you.The Mafia gang of Allafrica.com-Timberwood, awt aka ouch and kill jump run and shout.The mob, gang of three.you caricatures of allafrica.Alvin and the chipmunks.Theodore and simon.You share the same mother probably so i dont blame you.As for you my friend the days of butchering Africans are long gone so you can go hang.Im not paid for this so im out chap.enjoying ganging up on pro bob guys.blair toilet`s first born.once again, i love Bob, i worship the ground that he walks on and will even die protecting him.like i said before, shout all you want but that will not change bob me or Zimbabwe let alone.What gratification do you also take from this timberwood??????Being a champion of democracy, a moral compass????Is that so??????You are one mistake ever to be made by your mother and father.they spent a precious sixty seconds making a rhodie rebel.A kant of no fixed abode.I have a birthright and that birthright is my Zimbabwe.To you people everyone is a terrorist.Your kith and kin only removed Mandela and other ANC leaders from the terrorist list a month ago but South africa became independent fourteen years ago.The same person your kith and kin claimed to be a world icon was still regarded a terrorist.Certainly those are double standards.Good luck to you champions of democracy.continue preaching your gospel.Maybe America and Britian will recognise you for your sterling efforts and reward you. Adieu timberwood.

Get your dictionary out again Greenie, because you'll need that definition of plagiarism handy again ..... time for a point by point, just so you stand a chance at actually grasping the answers.

"same goes to you my friend for implying that everyone who sympathises with bob and criticises the west is racist.that is also paranoia."

Unlike you, I do not rely on implications ..... I say what I mean. You are a racist, many on here who support ZANU, yet have open minds on race and such matters are not. Therefore the idea you bring to the table there is fundamentally flawed, and therefore (as usual for you) incorrect.

"Like i said to you before, im not even shocked about your stance because whoever you were staying with at the barracks was a murderer.He/she was a rhodie soldier.You probably had a farm and they took it away from you.I understand why you are bitter my friend."

Again you make an incorrect assumption, you're getting really good at doing that ..... must have been personally indoctrinated by Uncle Bob himself to get your guesses this far off base. Whether I was the child of a soldier is not an issue ..... and the murderer dig is about as useful as a glass eye, because when you look at the line between them soldier and murderer to you are like freedom fighter and terrorist to someone else. No, we didn't have a farm, because my family have never been farmers ..... the difference being that we didn't try to run a farm into the ground unlike most of the alleged farmers today.

"You then left Zim soon after because you stated it has been more than twenty years.Obviously your parents could not swallow the pill of the new tide.You and your family could not stomach it.I dont blame you.For your own information i have benefited immensely from being Zimbabwean especially under the Mugabe regime."

Nope, actually we left for other reasons, ones which are none of your concern. And I'm sure you have, unlike at least 80% of the population.

"The education, opportunities and even a farm my friend."

And whats the output on that farm ..... Judging by your grasp of economics and various other factors I would be surprised if it produces enough to feed the dust mites.

"Ndima tirikurova sendima. Mr right and his disciples.Thick headed timberwood.I dont blame you.The Mafia gang of Allafrica.com-Timberwood, awt aka ouch and kill jump run and shout.The mob, gang of three.you caricatures of allafrica.Alvin and the chipmunks.Theodore and simon.You share the same mother probably so i dont blame you."

A little like the three stooges, consisting of you and a rotating cast of curlies and moes ..... mainly because no-one else can keep up to your level of humour for long.

"As for you my friend the days of butchering Africans are long gone so you can go hang."

The only one talking about butchering Africans here is you, probably a subconscious reference to the early 80's in Matabeleland ..... newsflash for you, that wasn't me, that was Uncle bob and his 'moment of madness' with the 5th brigade ..... so in your own words, you go and hang.

"Im not paid for this so im out chap.enjoying ganging up on pro bob guys.blair toilet`s first born.once again, i love Bob, i worship the ground that he walks on and will even die protecting him.like i said before, shout all you want but that will not change bob me or Zimbabwe let alone."

You said it all there, it won't change you worshiping the ground that Bob walks on ..... you been doing it since the 70's and you haven't moved on a day since.

"What gratification do you also take from this timberwood??????Being a champion of democracy, a moral compass????Is that so??????"

Moral compass? I don't look at it that way ..... I have talked about a moderate tact that would benefit all, you have set yourself up as the alleged moral compass, yet all you do is spout your mediocre insults and hate rhetoric ..... a total pathetic excuse for a human being.

"You are one mistake ever to be made by your mother and father.they spent a precious sixty seconds making a rhodie rebel."

I was born in Brit, GreenBummer, and at least I only had the choice of one father ..... I mean not knowing who your father is has obviously left you with a confidence and inferiority problem ..... get over yourself and get a life.

"A kant of no fixed abode.I have a birthright and that birthright is my Zimbabwe."

Good for you, Bob has already sold some of it off for you.

"To you people everyone is a terrorist.Your kith and kin only removed Mandela and other ANC leaders from the terrorist list a month ago but South africa became independent fourteen years ago."

Kith and Kin, I assume thats a new set of words for you, because you sure seem to be using it a lot ..... I'm glad you're bettering yourself by learning things like that I truly am. And as the ones you're talking about are the UK and US governments, where is my signature on those documents? NOWHERE .... now stop being a closed minded bigot and actually look at how pathetic your lines of reasoning are.

"The same person your kith and kin claimed to be a world icon was still regarded a terrorist.Certainly those are double standards.Good luck to you champions of democracy.continue preaching your gospel.Maybe America and Britian will recognise you for your sterling efforts and reward you. Adieu timberwood."

Maybe from them, but then again, look at your views, and start fixing your own attitudes before pointing fingers elsewhere. You, like Bob, are too quick to blame others for your own failures ..... and you both have oh so many of those.

To those who do not understand Greenbomber's last statement, "Ngiyakota isihlama sako baba", means "I am licking your fecal matter sir (or father)". All I can say then is "Enjoy!" However filthy stuff does not belong to these posts.

I will address one point here Wales:

"Mugabe learned that the first order of business is taking land. What is the proper way to take land? Again Mugabe went to the Rhodesian, American and British blue prints: you take and kill if you have too. And there is no so called the right way."

I agree, he went to the previous ways of doing things, but he forgot one primary fact, which cannot be denied, and that is the fact that to make something succeed you must have the 'infrastructure' in place for it to do so. Taking the land and redistributing to its rightful owners was a good idea in theory, but in practice RGM didn't have the 'farmers' in place to run the farms, and he compounded this by distributing the farms as 'rewards' to ZANU PF party faithful who proved that they could not handle the running of a farm.

As a direct result of that fact the farms became non productive, and contributed to the unemployment rate, the economic collapse and the shortages of food in Zimbabwe. This could have been avoided by using a more 'long term' solution rather than concentrating on simply giving the land to people who could not handle it.

Fixed term leases or cooperative ownerships would have allieviated the problem, but of course that didn't fit in with RGM's total empowerment strategy.

But what has that strategy wrought on Zimbabwe because of its failures? 80%+ unemployment, 2.2M%+ inflation and a quality of life that has deteriorated considerably over the last 20 years or so.

GreenBomber is one of the people artificially keeping the borders between colours and religions in place, is this really the sort of person you wish to trust your future success to?

you are supposed to use three dots not four ti show that they are words that follow.Seeing to it that im not so learned like you, i have a thing or two to teach you considering my strong rural background. You certainly are a defender of this website.

Let me just make a few pointers here and there. The funny thing is you certainly ignore the conditions that existed with regards to the ownership of land owing to the lancaster agreement and even after the protection of property rights by the constitution.Lest i remind you that your kith and kin were approached by the Gvt to sell the pieces of land that they were not using and most of them disagreed.A lot of people resisted the willing buyer willing seller.also owing to the fact that Britian had severed ties with Zimbabwe on the funding part where was this money going to come from to buy the land from farmers to start up corporatives and give fixed term leases??? you also ignore the fact that eighty percent of that farming was funded through FDI. Our people had been working on these farms for more than twenty years and basically from the looks of it they were just supposed to be content as labourers.The implication here is that our people should have been content with being farm labourers.That is the kind of employment you are talking about.For 19years we had been working towards resettlement together with Britian and it seemed that our people were being held at ransom because they did not have the technical know how and the money to pursue large scale farming and hence the pulling of the plug when we embarked on the land redistribution.

At least now that we have the land we can strategise from that point.Even if it takes us 20years its okay.The point is we shall never again be held at ransom for what is rightfully ours.It had to be done period. There is no point in talking of theory. Get a life timberwood.you seem to spend too much time on this website.Day and night. Are you a home defender or something????

Greenbomber, YOU must be spending day and night on this website too otherwise how would you know if Timberwolf was. Somewhere on your post you say, "Also owing to the fact that Britain had severed ties with Zimbabwe on the funding part, where was the money going to come from to buy the land from farmers?" etc. Why did the British cut ties? Why was there no money? Where did the last installment worth over 60 million British pounds paid to Mugabe as part of that Lancaster House agreement go? When asked by the British for Mugabe to give an account for that money as it was not used for the farmers, why is Mugabe mum? Because he used that money for his own purposes with which to stuff his own pockets. He started beating and killing those farmers so as to appear tough to please your people and to cover up his theft. The British are not fools to give someone money just so they can stuff their own pockets. Where do you think Mugabe got the money from to buy those diamond mines in the Congo, and how do you think he was able to afford to send an army to the Congo when Zimbabwe did not even have bread on the shelves? Now it is very apparent why you lick Mugabe's boots. It's perhaps because you are one of those so and soes, who were given a farm.

so that you know, I check my mail three times a day.Im on the net practically the whole day owing to what I do courtesy of my govt. about your question with regards to cutting ties with Zimbabwe on the money issue. it is clearly stated on the letter by Claire Short(5th November 1997). In simple terms they said they had no ties to the colonial past and were in no way indebted to Zimbabwe with regards to the land Redistribution programme.She explicitly said they would deal with all countries based on their white paper.Like I said to you Rajan Soni was the consultant who dealt with the land issue and all the times he came to assess the land program he gave the country a clean bill.The John Major gvt only pulled out money because they were issues about a comprehensive land redistribution program that had to be ironed out.The sticking issue was on the willing buyer willing seller issue my friend. But when they had ironed out their difference the Major gvt then agreed to restore the funds only for him to lose out in the elections in 1997.My friend your sixty million is hogwash because in principle as written on the lancaster agreement only 66 million pounds had been pledged by the gvt.So you mean to tell me that they had only given 6million pounds by the british govt for 17yrs.so you last instalment of 60million pounds is a comic. Question when soldiers went to Congo are you sure that there was no bread on the shelves?????? Or you are one of those injivas.Jumpa mafentsi.thats why you dont even know anything.uyantshuma born free.When were you born my friend?it seems you are a toddler.Bread was in Abundance in 1998.Lobels was there, Downings Bakery was also there.bread was is abundance. Bob was trying to appear tough to who?The point is we just wanted our landback after we had been dupped by the so called mamparas. The same diamond mine issues always comes up but you see now its mere hearsay and you cannot even prove it.where is your source?Have you been there???i doubt. The farm i deserved like i said the day i was born my umbilical cord was cut and mingled into the soil and that symbolised my birthright."Nhora Nhora Vakhomana, mhururu nekuenda mhururu...kunevamwe vakapanduka, nepamsaka pekuda mhari.Viva ZANU ZANU ndeyeropa!!!Torai Mhinda murambe Makashinga... makashinga rambai makashinga.ivhu iri takaritora nehondo.

You are very intelligent person ! I love you !

homo

ZANU-PF (African Youth Group) would like to make the following observation , we are very pleeazed with Messr's greenbomber , Phiri and akapfunde, these are bright men who are defending the homesoil. However we must make it clear , that a red fleg has gone up next to the name of Mr. Chiki, while he defends our life time President , His Eminence Robert G. Mugabe , President for life, it was observed , he made mention of another mens anatome in a posting on a nother site. This is poor behaviour for a Zimbabwean and he is currently under observation. It has been reccomended by the committey to allow him to remain , however if he does thees things again , he must resign ZANU-PF and join MDC. Thank you greenbomb , phiri and akafunde. ZANU-PF (African Youth Group).

The youth of every country are the future leaders and if the likes of zanupf80 of Mugabe's ZANU_PF thugs are the representatives or mere semblance of that youth group in Zimbabwe, then Zimbabwe is totally done for. As a youth, zanupf80 should be getting an education instead of intimidating and roaming the country side scouting for the next Zimbabwean to kill. What will happen when Zimbabwe is stable once again? All these young thugs are going to find themselves with no education and no skills, will not be able to compete with their piers, and they will be the ones filling the prisons. Meanwhile someone please teach zanupf80 how to spell.

Before we start accusing other people of financial fraud we want to see an independent financial audit. I have never seen one. Why did the British give Mugabe the money? Why didn’t they just write checks straight to the farmers. Those farms could have been appraised, and the owners list made out and checks written. Because the West wants to corrupt and smear African leaders while they get kick backs do these kind of warped deals. Instead of giving Mugabe all the money they give him a fraction and keep the rest. When the money starts missing in the books in Europe they say, Oh! We gave it all to Mugabe or that African leader. BULLSHIT I say. If the farmers were in Europe the British Govt. would have paid the farmers directly.

Greenbomber, these posts are in English and if you are going to vent in vernacular, then you had better interpret it in English so that all may understand the hot air you are blowing. "I am on the net practically the whole day owing to what I do courtesy of my government" etc. That explains everything. What exactly do you do? Scuttling the countryside by night like a hyena scouting for Mugabe and thugs which Zimbabweans you are going to leave in the bushes with their insides ripped open? You support Mugabe and all his actions of mass destruction and murder, killing your own brothers and sisters just for that little morsel of land that he through at your feet. Just because your umbilical cord lies beneath the soil of Zimbabwe it does not gives you or anyone else the right to push and shove or to slaughter Zimbabweans. Their umbilical cords lie there too and they too deserve to live. Perhaps it would have been better if all of you Mugabe the Zimbabwean butcher's boot lickers had been buried together with your umbilical cords because you are of no use to your own people.

typo: threw (not through)

Wales, you are right. The farmlands, real estate, farm equipment or what ever was pertinent, should have been appraised. If it wasn't then how was the settlement reached without knowing the individual farmer's value of the assets. I can quite see why compensation proceeds had to go through Mugabe as during the negotiations that had to have been agreeable to all parties. This was not just an ordinary case of Britain purchasing real estate from farmers. This was a dispute of land involving the sovereign state of Zimbabwe and white farmers with Britain committing to the compensation. I think it was a good thing for the disbursements to go though the state because that way there would be 'proper accountability' and Mugabe would know exactly who has received what. Just think for a moment, had Mugabe not received that money, do you think he would have been silent about it? There would have been battles in court. The farmers certainly did not get it and Britain was certainly not going to send any more without accountability and the fact that Mugabe is not disputing it means the trail of money stops in Zimbabwe. As for hopes of an independent audit, that will never be realized as long as Mugabe is still in power. When you are culpable, would you implicate yourself? This and all other matters will come to light when he faces his piers at the International Criminal Court in the Hague when he faces charges of crimes against humanity which will not only include the MDC murders but Muramatsvina in 5005 and also any other crime liable for prosecution under the concept of 'command responsibility'. Which ever way you look at it Mugabe is in deep trouble because even though he may be banking on the fact that the next leader will pardon him, as other murderers have been before him, and as others have also said, the ICC allows citizens that he has buggered around who are living elsewhere the right to have him arrested and boy, does he have many. SO his "hiding behind the skirts of negotiations", as someone once eloquently put it, will do diddly squat.

Kjrs120Why are we always having allegations instead of having full investigations? I don’t think it is impossible to get an independent financial audit if you want one. The opposition never insisted on it and you don’t insist on it either because allegations serve you well since no one can prove anything. In a free world, isn’t everyone entitled to due process? This is corruption on your part which engages in endless allegations without due process. It is true that no one will investigate or implicate themselves. George Bush, Blair, Brown will not do it Therefore it is the job of the opposition to insist that there be an investigation or a commissions of inquiry into wrong doing. Zimbabweans have a right to know the truth in a public trial not cooked up allegations by the media and enemies of the Zimbabwe Govt. Now we have sanctions imposed, supported by the opposition without real proof of guilt according to the laws of Zimbabwe. In a free world you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. The precedent that you are setting for Zimbabwe is making allegations until some powerful countries agree with you and then you have negative press and sanctions. If MDC comes to power and we don’t like them we can also do the same thing. I have lived in Western countries before and I can tell you that financial accountability is a challenge especially these governmental accounting systems they call fund accounting. Now throwing million dollars into the coffers of a third world country and then expect good accountability is stretching it – even the US Internal Revenue Service can’t do a good job all the time. You know there are always things like robbing Paul to pay Peter. Things can get complicated. The British knew this going in when they were dealing with Zimbabwe but they did it anyways because it serves them well to implicate Zimbabwe leaders for theft based on standards they themselves can’t live by. Accountability should have started with Britain knowing how many acres of land they were purchasing for land reform. As for Mugabe he could easily say that he used $60m to buy 10 acres. Who is to argue? You really don’t have a case here as far as I can see. How many acres did they think they were buying when the gave Mugabe money? --- Sanctions are designed to create hatred between Mugabe and his people as the economy sours. When this hatred turns to violence then you say Mugabe is cruel to his people. Sanctions are designed to cause an uprising in a nation and when a government tries to put that uprising down I don’t blame them. You can shout all you want about how terrible Mugabe is people will not believe that anymore. Zimbabwe is under siege. If Mugabe goes to face International Criminal Court in the Hague and Bush and Blair are not there then it is pure Western hypocrisy. If you are pushing for Mugabe to face trial then you should also push for Bush and his friends otherwise you are just a hypocrite.

Wales, excuses, excuses for murderer Mugabe and more. If it is not impossible to get an independent financial audit if you want one as you say, then go ahead and request one since you are the one who needs to exonerate Mugabe, but whilst you are at it, watch out that you are not found in the bushes with your intestines splattered all over the place. In your own words "throwing millions of dollars into the coffers of a third world country then expect good accountability is stretching it". I rest my case. There is your problem right there. The very reason why Britain will no longer submit any more installments, why the IMF will not fund your country and why NO ONE else will offer a penny not even your African neighbours. Yet, in spite of knowing how incompetent your country is , you continue to make a fuss and call the West names when they are only being prudent with their money. There should NEVER have been any "robbing of Peter to pay Paul" in the matter of those Lancaster House installments because those funds were earmarked for the farmers and farmers alone and that of compensation with no other considerations to purchase 10 acres or whatever lies. You say "In a free world you are innocent until proven guilty". Very correct. In YOUR world of Mugabe and fellow murderers, there is NO freedom. You beat and maim innocent Zimbabweans, then you accuse them of trumped up charges and when it pleases Mugabe they are brutally murdered including children for heaven's sake. How many times has Mr Tsvangirai been beaten? For What? These Zimbabwean are NO captured soldiers that one might question. These are regular folk- - civilians. Just you wait and see.

"If Mugabe goes to face International Criminal Court in the Hague and Bush and Blair are not there then it is pure Western hypocrisy. If you are pushing for Mugabe to face trial then you should also push for Bush and his friends otherwise you are just a hypocrite."

He is at least that!

Djoser, I make my call about all injustices that I am aware of. The American and British people do not need anyone's prompting because they do not live with their heads buried under the sand like you Mugabe followers. They are vocal and unafraid and aware.

The same way we are vocal and unafraid when we tell those who have a problem with our Affiliation to Mugabe and Zanu to go hang.they`ve ridden rough shod on international Law(United Nation charter)and the sovereignity of other nations as enshrined in the Vienna convention.Send Bush and Blair to Hague first then you can raunt about sending Bob to ICC. You should forget and relax about operation Murambatsvina/Restore Order because that was within the armbits of Zimbabwean Law and once again a lot of people had broken by laws.That one is a non event.On the other hand the two year projection with regards to the GNU is not a good one and feasible with regards to producing solid strategies to turn around the fortunes of our economy.We should bare in mind that at the present moment we have to build trust in each other.The three different political parties.And that trust should lead to a unified consensus with one purpose and that is to make Zimbabwe at better place for each and every one of us regardless of our political affiliation, race and tribe. Once we agree to a two year GNU, that would mean that there is a possibility for parties to work at cross purposes to enhance their own images towards the run up to new elections.

We have to guard against that and that is of fundamental importance.Five years would be the most preferred timespan as this could be used as a time of healing and bulding a foundation for economic recovery which by the way our nation needs.

On a lighter note, I will make sure that the Farm i benefited during The land redistribution programme comes in handy to all the people of Zimbabwe.My main thrust is in Tobacco growing and paprika.Doing quite well at the moment.I will invite you fellow bloggers to my farm one of these good days.If you are interested that is.

Have a pleasant morning

Greenbomber, regarding Murambatsvina, that, as I said would fall under the ICC's 'Command Responsibility'. I cannot imagine having my home, shanty or not, just bulldozed in the middle of the cold season at that, and left with my family to forage for food and shelter in the middle of winter. These are the poor who because there are no jobs all because of Mugabe himself, have no choice but live in those conditions. What the bloody hell do you think those people were? What kind of treatment was that? If it was necessary to relocate these poor people, why not even wait till winter was over? What an appalling and cruel way to treat other human beings. As for Mugabe facing the ICC, it allows and therefore is in the hands of ALL the people that Mugabe has brutalized or whose loved ones he has murdered, whether those in Zimbabwe or those who have moved to other countries, to fry him. As I said there are many of them. Regarding your farm, it is no wonder you support that murderer Mugabe. There is no joy or pride in possessing ill-gotten goods. It was given to you simply because you are a member of butcher Mugabe's ZANU_PF with no other criteria. Shame, shame. You sold out your fellow murdered Zimbabweans for that piece of land so take that tobacco and your paprika and shove it up your nostrils. There is no difference between you lot and Hitler's SS.

I sympathise with you on your understanding of basic common law and constitutional law which further gives veto to council/by laws. Even a lay man knows that breaking the law without knowledge of it is no defence in the court of law.It may be a mitigating factor but that still does not mean that you will not get a verdict from it.My friend by laws are laws which every law abiding citizen should follow whether you like it or not. Ask your father about it if he legally owns a house in Zim.Can he erect a building in his own yard or anywhere for that matter without first getting a plan from an architect and that plan having to be endorsed by an agent from that respective council before any form of construction takes place?????Better still, soon after digging up laying the foundation you still have to call the council to inspect and they will give you a go ahead.Even when you get to roof level my friend it is still the same thing.I do understand that you dont know all this because of your ignorance and because you are a bornfree who has not had the opportunity to learn about all this.My friend the argument you gave is one based on an emotional or human perspective which i will not dispute and hence i said it falls under mitigating factors.Maybe what our govt could have done was to give them sufficient time(notice)to get their acts in order or made many pay a heavy fine for those ILLEGAL BUILDINGS.That i accept but once again, the law takes precedence.Even when you want to build a fowl run at your place make sure you get consent from the municipality my friend.

My grandfather also lost a fowl run and had his cottage destroyed.We willingly pulled it down my friend.Sad as it is but it had to be done because we had not followed the proper channels to erect those buildings.

Basically your implication is that we should allow all the homeless to erect shacks and those who want to build as they please(willy-nilly)without following the proper procedure.That can never be allowed. By the way we came up with operation Garai/Lahlani kuhle which saw a massive exercise that the ZNA and other Civil organisations took part in to build houses.In that drive Zimbabwe had about 7000 four bedroomed houses built.An example in Bulawayo is that of Cowdray park and Mahatshula.Some houses were built there under this project.

If people were so aggrieved, they should have approached the law society and even had civic organisations represent them in the supreme court or any other court challenging this.No one bothered because they knew that it was a lost cause as people had broken the law.Deal with it, chief!!!!!!!!!

To conclude, everything was done within the armbits of the law and that stands because we are a sovereign state with laws that govern our land which every citizen and foreigners(visitors) should abide by whether they like it or not.

Kjrs120.If you ever visited Great Zimbabwe in Masvingo you will understand that Zimbabwe has a tradition of order – law and order. The precision and architectural proficiency in which those stones were laid is a symbol to that fact. It also means open court system and up on the hill is a recognition of a higher power – spirituality. We are a nation of laws. The constitution and laws of Zimbabwe are the most powerful thing. People, especially the opposition want to go around that and they fail. You can’t get justice anywhere in the world if you try to go around and ignore the legal system. The problem with kjrs120 is that he does not understand the law and its importance in conducting the country’s business. He thinks he is the law.We have a centralized court system which decides guilt and innocence and it is no one else’s job. His waffling here is a display of pre-historic homespun homosapiens who just stumbled on a computer keyboard. Good work greenbomber, keep up the good work.

Greenbomber, what bloody operation is that that says "Lahlani kuhle?" (discard or throw away properly) Those four bedroom houses, probably the size of a match stick box, must have been occupied by those who ascribe to Zanu-pf. It is despicable when a nation puts its poor citizens out into the cold in the dead of winter, WOMEN and CHILDREN, and does not but an eye just because it has its 'laws'. Why could these Zimbabweans not have been given time to move at least after the cold season? It would have been difficult to find a chova mbayiwa alone (a rickety car) to move without notice what ever little they had. Both Wales and you talk of laws in Zimbabwe. HA! HA! HA! Oh my ribs ache! What laws? The ones "done within the armpits" as Greenbomber eloquently put it? Is it any wonder they stink? What about the law that says you must not steal, you must not rape, you must not kill? Obvious it does not exist in your country of Zanu-pf thugs under the armpit laws of Mugabe.

Kjrs120 Wrong again. I am sure you don’t even know or believe there is gravity, electricity or oxygen but it is there. It would be a challenge of monumental proportion to make you notice, understand laws and how to use the legal system. You dwell on public opinion and you think that is law and the fact that crimes are committed does not mean there is no law. Question for you: What do you do if you think a crime has been committed? What is the process?

Wales, did 'murambatsvina' take place? So how can I be dwelling on public opinion? How can I also not know or believe there is gravity, electricity or oxygen? Come on now. Regarding your questions. If I think a crime has been committed I call the police and they follow due process - the law. What we see happening in Zimbabwe is that that due process does not exist. You have the most senior member of your country, Mugabe, cheating, intimidating,brutally beating silencing , severing limbs, burning homes and people within them, tearing citizens apart and leaving internal organs splattered around and murdering them at will including children all because they just oppose him. No crimes committed - for just being an opposition. My goodness. Where then is your law?

kjrs, The legal system must be tested and we must insist that it must work. If a crime is committed (lets say a woman gets raped) the police will ask the victim if she wants to file charges. If you don’t file charges and agree to testify in court against the perpetrator you wont get justice unless there are other witnesses willing to testify in court on your behalf. Police in many countries take advantage of those who don’t know the law especially the poor and Zimbabwe is no exception and that is why the police do not like lawyers. Murambatsina happened and those people were breaking the law. They could have appealed their case and some did. Parliamentary representatives who represented those districts are a resource for people to get justice. The tricky things about justice is that if you don’t use it, it won’t work for you and it will also appear as if it does not exist. You have to follow all the steps.

What has happened in Zimbabwe is that leaders of the opposition have ignored the legal system in Zimbabwe and have gone to Washington or London. Now we have sanctions a form of arm twisting voters into voting for a candidate. When you have too much outside interference in political processes the justice system fails. When things are decided in court of public opinion justice fails. If you don’t like to test the system or use the system how do you know that due process does not work? You don’t even know what is in the Zimbabwe constitution and how to use it to solve problems. We will fix our problems when most of us in Zimbabwe understand how to use the legal system and reject your views of arbitrary understanding of the justice system. The constitution must be held as the most powerful tool for freedom and democracy in Zimbabwe not public opinion. When things go wrong we go to the constitution. If there are violations, there is an investigation. If evidence of wrongdoing is found charges must be filled and we go to public trial and the defendant is allowed due process under the law. When a judge makes a decision we all must live with it. If things were done right there is no need for ICC because the constitution is there to protect its citizen and its leadership from tyranny. Your idea of justice is to accuse your leaders in the court of international public opinion. You don’t have to tell me whether murambatsina was wrong; the courts must decide that not you, unless you are a dictator. One thing to keep in mind is that wherever there is a perceived idea that there is a dictator running a country there are also little dictators running around making legal judgments through their courts of public opinion. From day one, the actions and behaviors of leadership must be monitored, refereed inch by inch and every second using the laws and constitution and separation of powers maintained. It is foolish to wait until the results of in election are questionable and you try to apply the justice system that you have ignored, not used or tested for years.

lest i be called names by yours truly, kjrs,its four roomed houses not four bedroomed.Made a mistaake there. wales my friend zim is home no matter what happens. Chero titambure sei, i know i have a home to go to.let them go on and on that will not change my stance.Let them say whatever they want but like we`ve said before, they can go hang.

GREENBOMBER, Zimbabwe IS your home and no one is telling you otherwise. Just fix it so that other Zimbabweans can also enjoy the comforts you Zanu-pf are afforded by your killing machine Mugabe.

Ndebele is not my first language and i tend to make these mistakes.Its operation hlalani kuhle.Where did you see these intestines being splattered around KJRS? once again this issue of winter, children and women are mitigating factors and still cannot ride above the law.What do you make of the xenophobic attacks that happened during winter and people were now housed in tents right next to oceans where you have cold currents blowing their direction.My example is a cape town one.Just yesterday, the govt(S.A) was dismantling these concentration camps and with no alternative for these victims of xenophobia.What do you make of this???KJRS Zimbabwe is our home, you and i.We are all Zimbabweans.you are my brother regardless of you being Ndebele and i being Shona.Siyakhuluma sonke, we all talk the same language.probably raised in Bulawayo together and i bet a million bucks I KNOW YOU.It did not take me so long to put a face to the choice of words and line of thought.This issue of children and women is the same as practising nepotism at a work place.Because that person is a family member or friend you hire them but there is someone else who is qualified and you do not take them.The law is the law whether you like it or not.Morgan pulled out of elections and he did not give his electorate a choice.No matter how much these people could have been bitten, they had made up their minds and they would not have changed their stance.But he thought he was clever.going to the dutch embassy.If we wanted him dead he would have been dead by now.The easiest of all things to do.But rather he was playing to the gallery and you had been seeking military intervention in Zim.We stand ready to protect our birthright.we shall do it without fear or favour.Murambatsvina happened and it was within the armbit of the nation`s constitution let it stick in you brain.

Long live Zim

Greenbomber, you do not know me from Adam. Just because I know Sindebele that does not make me a Ndebele or Zimbabwean for that matter, just as YOU knowing English or french does not make you an Englishman or British or French. I learned Sindebele through a Zimbabwean that our family sponsored through many years of Medical school. So I am neither African or Rhodesian but share a great bond with my Zimbabwean brother. I do not accept your stupid bet which you have lost anyway. Your worthless million dollars buys diddly squat too. You Mugabe sadists are a rotten bunch with hearts of stone. You pretend to now feel sorry for the Zimbabweans YOU forced to flee to South Africa. Why should South Africa treat Zimbabweans any better when YOU yourselves beat, maim and murder them? What is the difference between the victims of crime upon which you have perpetuated and the victims of xenophobia in Cape town and elsewhere in South Africa? Nothing. So don't be a hypocrite because you care NOTHING for those people. Of all the rubbish dribble you wrote, one line about Mr Tsvsngirai really caught my attention. In your own words; "If we wanted him dead, he would have been by now". This is not only YOUR admission of being part of the killers in Zimbabwe but your admission to being part of the decision making as to whom you are going to kill. Oh my gosh!

Wales, all this "constitution protecting its citizens and leadership from tyranny" etc, coming from you, is just laughable and pathetic. Since when has that ever happened? You have a sadistic tyrant Mugabe in control of Zimbabwe, changing constitutions like dirty socks at his whims so that HE can be protected when goring people to death. It appears you cook up laws for the ordinary citizens to make their lives hell, but you make up another set for the likes of you Zanu-pf thugs, where you are allowed to maim and murder and do whatever you please to people, even destroying their homes in the middle of winter without any consequences. You also say, "Your idea of justice is to accuse your leaders in the court of international public opinion" What the hell is that? My idea of justice is to seek the intervention of the courts of law. Stop kidding yourself because you know it too that there is neither democracy or freedom in Zimbabwe. Your country is being led by a blood-thirsty, lawless, thieving vampire, Mugabe, that has caused millions of Zimbabweans to flee because of that very tyranny lawlessness and total disregard of their lives. So please stop making us sick talking about freedom and democracy to which you do not aspire.

Englsih is a medium of communication around the world and it follows that most people will know it.With regards to your eloquence in Ndebele(Zimbabwean Ndebele) one would think you are from there.That coupled with your passion about Zim would rid you in that category.but alas im a fucker for assuming you are from there. When i talked of Xenophobic attacks i did not refer to Zimbabweans.Xenophobic attacks affected different nationalities and this is i used as a hypothetical situation.Dont be fool, learn to take things in their context. It seems your family has a heart, you funded a Bulawayo chaps education and im heartless like you say because i support Mugabe and I benefited from the land Redistribution Program.You are holier than though because you are pro whoever and want Mugabe out.Chinzwa manje, urimbwa, mugodoyi and go hang kani zvichikunetsa kuti ndiri webato rezanu.Like i said if we Wanted Morgan dead, he would be dead by now and they aint no shit that you would do about it.Kamhata kemhunu!!!!its only time that he will give in . he will do it very soon.Zanu ndeyeropa uchida usingadi.

Greenbomber, I absolutely love this. Once and for all and in an open forum such as this , you have absolutely confirmed to ALL that what we have been saying all along, that you Zanu-pf dogs are the killing bastards. Once again in your own incriminating words, "Like I said if we Wanted Morgan dead he would be dead by now and they ain't no shit that you would do about it." So there you have it people, you have a confession of one who is proud of the fact that he has the power and choice to murder even one who would be president of his country, Mr Tsvangirai. You Greenbomber say this without fear because you have NO law to fear. In the end the REAL law will get you, and what a celebration it will be for the Zimbabwean people who will finally be got rid of all you murdering savages. As for your raving and ranting at me in your Shona, like I have said before, it is a waste of your time as I do not understand it even though I think there was some mention of me being a dog. So I shall bark back at you with whatever insult you said at me. By the way, all your 'patriotism' of having rights in Zimbabwe just because "the day you were born" your umbilical cord was buried in its soil, well guess what. The day you were born, your umbilical cord, placenta and all, were INCINERATED in the hospital or clinic and the ashes discarded as trash. Unless of course you were born in the bushes where there is no way of knowing what your cousins the apes did with it - ate it perhaps.