This is the major drawback in the negotiations, however I think that JOC must be warroied about the social welfare of the Zimbas not the individual security. Why were they making such blant statements and why did they went on to engineer the slaughtering of fellow-countrymen. Justice must take precedence whether Mugabe is the ruler or not.

It comes as no surprise...!If you are used to torturing people and getting what ever you want, it is very difficult to accept change.Accepting change means you forfeit some of the previleges.These guys know that they will have to deal with more than one boss.It is high time these people know that it is not all about them.People are suffering yet they are busy with their selfish ways...

When the Rhodesian Forces murdered people prior to independence, no-one was taken to the Hague or tried for crimes against Humanity. I am not a involved in politics, but I would tell you that unless you have never been shot at you are likely ignorant of the price that was paid for independence. One thing people should remember is that the timing of the signing of the deal is not an accident, here all the JOC Member have witnessed cruelity un-imaginable.

My mother was raped by white soldiers during the war, and for those that are writing, should know the atrocities which were committed in the original Tribal Trust Lands. My aunties have more than six children from rapes, by mercinaries and immediately after independence were went outside the country for education and now I can truly say, lets not be blinded by all the promises coming from all sectors, if its not for the security of the Zimbabweans. Lets talk frankly, that in 1995, I witnessed The Late J.M Nkomo being told by some white farmers in Norton that, the Land will never been given to Africans. This is Ehlish Land said one white farmer. Gentlmen lets know the things for what they are.

What justice was ever brought against the zanla "forces" who routinely cut villager's limbs off that they suspected of being informers and sell outs??? Stop pretending the Rhodesian army was responsible for all the atrocities during the war. If the truth be known the zanla thugs who were ill disciplined murdered probably more zimbabweans than the rhodies ever did!

turnex to be precise they were not zanla thugs but freedom fighters. zanla freedom fighters didn’t start the war. Of course they were not as organized as their colonial masters for they were simply a bunch of innocent farmers and pastoralists coerced into war to protect their land and dignity.may u please tell us what was the rhodesian army cum thugs were fighting for? or why they started the war?

Unfortunately, you cannot negotiate with the likes of Edison Mnanagwa, Gen. Constantine Chewenga, Augustine Chihuri, Paradzai Zimondi or Perence Shiri as they have too much to lose. These 'animals' have brought Zimbabwe to her knees through their brutality and intimidation. They will not let go of their amassed wealth and of course are afraid of the hang-mans noose which will ultimately be placed around their scrawny necks for the crimes that they have committed against Zimbabweans. My trigger finger continues to 'itch' in anticipation ! I doubt that they will require Zanu PF cards when they pass through the gates of hell ! Pamberi ne.....agh !

The days of the murderous members of the Joint Operations Command (JOC) are already counted, whatever the course of events the talks take!

They have been earmarked for possible prosecutions in a number of countries if by any chance they enter these countries. Aggrieved Zimbabweans will ensure that justice should run its course with these murderers.

As for lunatic Mugabe, he should better think twice if he wants to follow his dream that God annoited him to serve Zimbabwe till his death. Anyway, he can still serve a good jail sentence!

Yet another fictious prank!

Prem, you are an example of a bad debator! Issues are being discussed and you continue your usual foolish matras. We also could do the same by saying "Go away Rhodesian"..."Go away Rhodesians". But would that real contribute anything? Your mantra on Mugabe is both annoying and foolish - It is leading to nowhere. You come from a culture where you (Southern Rhodesians) have been repeadly lied to. You tend to see Zimbabwe with those cat like eyes. Get over it, Zimbabwe is not Southern Rhodesia, that evil empire!

Why would you consider that anybody who is against Mugabe must be a White Rhodhesian? I am not. I have a long record of fighting against despots, tyrants, murderers and lunatic people in power. I come from a semi-slave family who have participated in the struggle for achieving the independence of my country in Africa. I now actively support people who seek by all means to promote freedom, justice and prosperity. I have myself been a victim of Mugabe. Some of my friends as well, who were expelled manu militarily because they wanted to come inside to show solidarity with struggling workers.

Now you say you walk freely around in Harare and therefore you are at odds to understand my state of mind against murderous Mugabe and cronies!

Can't you ask yourself why Tsvangirai could not go around freely in Harare like you? Why over 100 MDC supporters got killed during the electoral campaigns? Why Mugabe said his bullet was mightier that MDCs pen? Why his crony Police Commissioner said he would not recognize a victory by Tsvangirai through the ballot box? Why you can't understand the terror that pushed over millions of your brothers and sisters to seek protection from murderous Mugabe in neighbouring countries?

I want to lend support to those inside the country to prevent the establishment of a banana republic. Zimbabwe's failure would drag down a whole number of neighbouring countries. It has to stop before we all sink through the grand scheme of lunatic Mugabe.

He has to go even if that would mean people like you would shed tears! But it's not too late for you to reconsider facts in a pragmatic manner, start denouncing Mugabe's cunning schemes to cling to power and help give back smiles to the great majority of Zimbabweans who are actually bleeding badly.

PREM, whoever you are, you don't know how to debate the issues. Zimbabwean issues (and other issues)are complicated and do require sorting out information. Even if Mugabe was removed from power or killed today, Zimbabwe would still have a lot of problems, if not a civil war or military coup. That's why it is necessary to debate the issues. Please cut out your rubbish!!

phiri..neither do you I am afraid, for in your skewed eyes anyone who is against mugabe is a white racist southern rhodesian. Name calling is a sign of intellect I am afraid and you sir are guilty ascharged!!

correction..name calling is a sign of a LACK OF intellect...no wonder phiri was basking in the glory...lol

Turnex, where is the lie! You are a white anglo South Rhodesian Zimbabwe. You told us about your "settler" background. You call my eyes skewed, when in fact most Southern Rhodesia see Africans thru a "Barbed wire" fence. How on earth would people who see thru a barbed fence be open minded?...It is a dangerous thing to look at the world thru a barbed fenced yard...And you are a product of that.

My Dear Phiri,

I feel lunatic Mugabe has also brainwashed you!

Problems, however complicated, must be managed in a civilised manner. That's where lie the problem with murderer Mugabe. The politics of fear being entertained about the West, comes from lunatic Mugabe. He sees in every opponent an ennemy of Zimbabwe instead of considering them as citizens with the right to express their views on topical issues! He terrorises all of them.

People like you, Dear Phiri, by your indifference to the horrible abuse of power by the dictator has kept him in power.

He who changes his mind for the better is wise; he who moves away from ignorance to pragmatism is reasonable: these are qualities that moves a country forward. Hatred poisons even one's perception of things.

Why didn't you raise your voice when murderous Mugabe tried to bring in Chinese arms on the eve of the run-off? Didn't you realise that people badly needed food rather than lethal arms? Either you are in collusion with lunatic Mugabe or you are not taking seriously your role as a responsible citizen!

Concerning a possible coup in Zimbabwe? Yes, only if SA would stand behind the ruthless bloodstained Zimbabwean Army! I don't see how lunatic would Mbeki become, in turn, after rubbing shoulders with lunatic Mugabe.

Concerning a possible killing of Mugabe, let it be known that nobody amongst the civil sosiety activits condone such an act. We all are calling for the dictator to be tried for crimes ahainst humanity.

Dear Phiri, every country has got problems! Get rid of your hatred for others and show understanding to the sufferings of innocent citizens and be ready at all times to take positions against those who usurp power and deny people their basic rights. Instead of civil war, a new sense of dignity will emerge where people will take pride in contributing towards consolidating freedom, justice and an equitable development.

These are what lunatic Mugabe has refused to the majority of Zimbabweans. He must go. You yourself must change your perception of what is pure lie, what is deception, what is to show tolerance in the widest sense, why people have to run away from their motherland to seek refuge from a murderous lunatic.

Come join the millions of activists who are supporting meaningful change in your lovely country turned into a gulag by the lunatic. We will be happy to count on you. I do not say that you should follow our ideas. Just support the process of free and fair elections and accountability from those who drove the country to the bring of disaster.

Prem, get used to it.. I have been the target of this vile crap from phiri, akafunboy, dloser, greenbomber, and the list goes on. I humor them now and call myself a southern rhodesian because I know it winds them up. What they fail to recognise is if they were born before 1980 in that great country....they are all rhodesians by birth!! But that is their one and only response then things dont go their way or when their mugabe is caught with his hand in the cookie jar...name calling of the stupidist kind...and they do this because their position and that of mugabe is indefensible to any normal thinking human being...unless of course you are a brainwashed sycophant( look this word up in the dic-shio-nary phiri,akafunbwoy,dloser,greedybomber,etc before flagging up my post as abusive...it is not a bad word..promise)..LOL

How can anyone say such things about the JOC Commanders. The Army Commander has coloured children, Four of Mugabe's Ministers are married to British White women, these guys are not racists, but they know racism through and through.

Tsvangirai and Mugabe are best of friend, that may sound strange, but its true, there cattle graze in the same village since they are married to cousin, now deal with that. Lets know who is play who. This is politics and the stakes are so high for All Africans.

It much more than going to the Hague, its about Neo-Liberal and Neo-Colonialism and Globalisation, but who wields the true power not necessary mean they are their own man.

If Rhodesia was an evil Empire then only God , Nkosi , can find the words to describe that murderer Mugabe and his JOC members and what they turned a beautiful land into. Man's inhumanity to man is demonstrated to the hilt by Mugabe and his JOC group of thugs. How can you be so despicable to your own people ? Is it back to tribalism , Mashona vs Matabele ? All the hatred toward the west and yet you still have to rely on their expertise , cars, TV, Radio, even food that Mugabe confiscates and uses against his own people. You lot never invented a damn thing but MISERY ! When I read of the support that you generate for the SATAN Mugabe and his demons, it astonishes me that any true Zimbabwean could condone such behaviour. You ought to be ashamed ! Even your UN that you hang so much on , critisises the mess those thieves have meted out on the Zimbabwean people. So keep your "hard fought for land ", you've proved you are no keepers of the land and only know how to destroy. Nyerere told Mugabe he inherited a jewel in Africa and thanks to him and people like you , all that is left is a worthless sandbox and instead of stepping up and being Mdodas , you act like Mfazi's , blaming Rhodesians, British , Americans anyone you can think of but the right ones , yourselves and Mugabe !

Top man Prem...keep them intelligent posts a-rolling in...one way or another our small band of lonely but reasonable and itnelligent voices will rise above the cacophony of mugabe worshippers on here and the truth will out!!

Baasi, the point is whats going on in Gt Zimbabwe is no concern of yours because you an offspring of colonialss. You are permanently in NEGATIVE MODE. Period. The letter and spirit of whatever you says it is a contribution from a colonial/settler. At best you are just a pest insect. Your liberal use of LUNATIC when referring to His Excellence,President Robert Gabriell MUGABE reminds one of life in Salisbury, Rhodesia. I was not a Rhodesian Rhodesians were white. Only whites held the annual celebration of UDI. I was a native and in my passport I was referred to a RHODESIAN AFRICAN By the way there is no such a thing as a HALF slave.Hey! You have a wooped upbrains!!! Seriously speaking though your contribution to the debate about Gt Zim is irrelevant bassi. You are best ignored.

Aka, I think its a bit rich to say others should be ignored when you yourself have about as much credibility here as a fish. I mean... I'll leave others to judge how stupid you are, but you did say that the first and second world wars were only fought by the english and the germans. so really, you are uneducated, and should be ignored.

"Top man Prem...keep them intelligent posts a-rolling in...one way or another our small band of lonely but reasonable and itnelligent voices will rise above the cacophony of mugabe worshippers on here and the truth will out!!"

Intelligent MA! It's more like babble, posting the same tired old lies and name-calling nonsense as one would do when they don't have a valid argument to sustain their point of view. And yes, I would expect that someone like this would be your hero. I'm sure at some point the truth will come out but it's going to be hard considering the near monopoly on news that the western controlled media has.

dLoser... why make such assuptions without evidence. Prem is right on with his comments. He tells it how it is. And backs his statements up with facts to show they arent lies. You just say they are lies to discredit him, but with no evidence. So therefore you have no credibility. Get some evidence before you post again. Because you have none, so dont go around accusing people of lies when they arent, and you cant back yourself up. Loser.

prem if u could please show some respect to our comrade Bob.cultured africans have their way of rebuking their elders. from what I read in your article I doubt if you are one of us. mugabe is not lunatic but one of the most respected Africans of all times. you can write what you want to write about him but that would not change anything toward his status.

I reiterate my point , if Mugabe is one of the most respected leaders in Africa , that explains why the continent is in such a mess !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only messed up minds could create the mess that exists in Africa and worship a demon. I agree Mugabe is no lunatic , rather he is the offspring of SATAN.even lunatics can gather their thoughts once in a while , Mugabe and his JOC or JOKE crowd are just plain evil.

Shaka,

I think you'll find that Mugabe's status of a respected freedom fighter etc, is long gone out the window. No one respects a leader that unleashes a wave of violence, intimidation and terror on his own people to keep power.

So, the negotiation is not about the unity and welfare of Zimbabwe after all. Now, look at the behaviour of Mugabi and his butchers; it's all about their interest and security. Cowards, they're afraid of their own shadows. They should face justice for their crimes against humanity. Justice delay is justice denied. Anything short of that is an injustice against their victims.

Let those idiots face the music. I don't subscribe to the Truth and Reconciliation bullshit that allows human butchers to go scott free. They should be punished for their crimes, period.

Take it this way. Members of the Joc are against Mugabe ceeding executive powers to Morgan. Lets say, Mugabe does ceed executive powers to Morgan. oops Mauritania?? The JOC overthrows Morgan and then where are we?? Back to square one? Let see how this plays out.

It comes as no suprise that the so-called JOC and Vice President Musika are opposed to power sharing between ZANU-PF and MDC because of what they have done and said in the past. The moment of reckoning has come and some people who have been so loose with their toungues have to retract théir statements and recoil into their shells like snails because they realise that the impunity and very artificial freedoms that they have been enjoying at the expense of the masses will soon be over.

What is JOC anyway, I fail to find its place within the Zimbabwe government official institutional framework, except that it is a creation of ZANU-PF's manipulation of national institutions into actively participating in politics, albeit with dire consequences on the masses. JOC is a party structure rather than a national institution. Also it is only ZANU-PF that has a JOC within its party structures as the other parties do not have access to these organs of the state, except ZANU-PF.

However this is not to say that a JOC is a good thing, it is bad to have state institutions like the police, the army and prison services, taking sides, in party politics! We have seen what has happened just before and probably after the June 27th elections, MDC should not have a JOC within its structures, otherwise they will be practicing bad politics like ZANU-PF.

JOC also serves interest of only a few individuals who because they have access to guns and ammunition can hold the whole nation at ransom, like we have just witnessed in our beloved country. Honestly, Zimbabwe is bigger than individuals in JOC, so it is totally improper to sacrifice the whole country because of 4 so called powerful people in heading JOC.

Vice-President Musika has also been very careless with his speeches althogh of course he is known for such. Remember what he said about 'imigodoyi' at some point. His labelling Tsvangirayi as a puppet is baseless and now he finds it difficult to face up with the reality that Tsvangirayi is just another citizen with all the rights and freedom to contest and win the people's mandate to govern Zimbabwe.

The problem with people that have been affiliated to ZANU-PF is that they have been brainwashed so much that they cannot see their future without Robert Mugabe and ZANU-PF. They cannot even see themselves as leaders without Mugabe, hence some have said he is a 'god sent' likening him to the son of man.

It is good that Mugabe himself is taking the trouble to educate some of his disciples into accepting the reality of the current political situation in Zimbabwe. JOC and Vice President Musika should face up to this reality, swallow their words and accept Morgen as another Leader in the making of Zimbabwean history.

IwePhiri, musoro wako unopenga asi waiponda vanhu kani zvino chawakadya chamuka ( Phiri you are confused, did you take part in murdering innocent Zimbabwean, what comes around goes around) Its not a matter of debute it life that we atlking about and people that were killed. Kana wakauraya munhu (if you killed someone) you should answer for that no matter you are Zimbabwean, Rhodisian etc

amen to that post Reality...you will probably be called a rhodesian too soon. It really makes me laugh sometimes.

JOC members Zimbabwe Defence Forces commander General Constantine Chiwenga, Police Commissioner-general Augustine Chihuri and Prisons Commissioner retired Major-General Paradzai Zimondi need to be put in immediate retirement and new leadership needs to be sought that supports a transitional government towards establishing democracy in Zim. Zanu-PF as a political organ will suffer as a result of this but if they want to be recognized by the world they need a complete overhaul from the corrupt, incept and human rights abusers.

The sooner outsiders accept that Zimbabwe's issue are currently being addressed by Zimbabweans and that there is, as there has never been, no place for outside intervention, the better. It's already encouraging to see even the naysayers calling Mugabe, president as they come to terms with the reality that he is the legal president of the Republic of Zimbabwe.

So let's all deal with the reality that is, as opposed to the fantasies some wish for.

Btw, in case any of those non-Africans, in-search-of-a-cause, haven't noticed, thing are kicking off rather hotly in Georgia and apparently more than 1000 people have been killed in political violence in the last three days. I strongly suggest, in order to avoid accussations of hypocrisy, that the UK, US, the EU, Australia and Canada all impose immediate sanctions on Russia and demand that the UN do the same.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080808/115908220.html

I wish everyone would stay out of Zimbabwe too and let you ignorant morons(no, that is not a religion)kill each other off , completely destroy the land as you have already done, ruin what is left of the infrastructure, become over ridden with AIDS so that once and for all we could be rid of the ignorance. In the mean time , it would be nice to get good and decent Zimbabweans to a safe haven and treat them kindly as they should be, not like they are being treated by the JOC fools and Mugabe who deserve to be prosecuted for evil against our own brothers.. I cannot believe some of the rubbish some of you believe, no one in their right mind could belive it. Are you paid by ZANU-PF to write this tripe with that toilet paper money of theirs ? And no, I'm not Rhodesian , but wish I was ! They never mistreated people like your Zanu-pf punks.

You're not alone with your bad-minded and evil wishes for people you neither know, have ever met nor are ever likely to meet.

Some go further than maliciously wishing and try to enact some of the evils you've described.

It is precisely these evil, divisive and destructive wishes and actions of non-Africans that Zimbabweans have been resisting for so long with increasing success, of late.

The only success you have had of late , is to murder innocent people and starve them because they are either not interested in politics or have different view points. This is not a black -white thing, this is about an evil man and his cohorts stealing , burning , raping from our own black brothers and then playing the blame game , if it is not the white Rhodesians , it is Britain , America, Europe , even Black countries in Africa that condemn his violence , that he blames. Why does he not look in the mirror at his evilness and stop blaming others. I was excited when he became PrimeMinister , I thought there is great hope for the people of Zimbabwe , all he did was dash all hopes with his greed and need for power ! How can you deny this ? None of us have bad wishes for Zimbabwe , but we get sick of the silly blame game you lot play . The bad wishes are for the morons who support this evil man and are so racist that they can not see the forest for the trees. No body wants your country , it is a shambles caused by Mugabe and his thugs and people like you who support him !

Phiri, stop talking about Southern Rhodesia, people who were murdered are native Zimbabweans they're not from any other corner of the world. Apart from that, these people were innocent and how can government itself sloughter its own people as if they are killing animals, that is awful, rediculous, heartless, selfishness and unconcerned. I think Phiri you are one of those satanic, evil and heartless people.You don't see the truth because you're involved in the evil game of murdering innocent people.

I am not Rhodesian or Zimbabwean but as a well meaning African and a citizen of our world I find comments such as those of the likes of Mr Phiri supporting that evil monster of Zimbabwe quite infuriating.At the very best Mr Phiri and his elk are just a bunch of simple, easily manipulated and brainwashed airheads who have bought into the nonsensical rubbish that Mugabe and his sadistic cronies peddle as smokescreen for their own lamentable failures.The fact is the whole entire world knows that evil Mugabe's chosen course of clinging to power after being unceremoniously rejected by his long suffering countrymen was to brutalise and spill their blood. That, in any right thinking man's books, is inexcusable and indefensible. The JOC have no claim to legitimacy whatsoever and must not be entertained.

To my african relative. Never forget that History is told differently. But,please allow me this space to explain a few things. A person who has had a nail hammered into his finger and the person who has just hammered the nail, can both tell you about the nail and the story can be told. There are two views on this story. The one with the nail in his finger and the one who is holding the hammer. One can tell you how to hammer a nail straight into the finger and how to do it efficiently. The other one can tell you about the pain. The only person who knows the pain is the one with the nail, not the hearers or the hammer. So to label people as brainwashed and manipulated is taking things to one extreme. When the people who witnessed the trenches in Zambia, Mozambique and the rural areas for more than 10-20 years and are still alive, and have lived without complaining for 20 years. It tells you there is something missing in the story to make it a complete, story. To witness more than 50000 children killed in an afternoon, and the people who did that were never prosecuted, and today the very people who did that are the ones calling for Mugabe to be taken to The Hague. Its amazing. More shall come out as the picture and films are available and these should be brought to court.

Hello notha4ever, It's wrong for you to consider everybody condemning lunatic Mugabe as being part of the elite who colluded with the colonial authorities.

I am of the young generation of Africans who value freedom, justice and genuine democracy. We have not reached that goal yet, hence our continued support to all groups leading the struggles in various countries of our continent.

While the past should guide us to avoid the same pitfalls, at no time should we condone the same denial of freedom and, as an excuse, start butchering everybody not agreeing to our whims and caprices! A future built on hatred will flounder! It will not take one far.

If Mugabe had set aside the hatred for the West and concentrated upon accompanying his people towards prosperity, the economy of Zimbabwe would have been flourishing. Instead, lunatic Mugabe whipped up emotions againt the West just to divert attention from his own mismanagement of the economy. The more people started to feel the pain of the downturn of the economy, the more they began to voice their displeasure and the more lunatic Mugabe embarked upon silencing them.

The absence of checks and balances in the system did the rest. That is, Mugabe turned into a monster, thirsty of blood and revenge - millions of innocent Zimbabweans ran away to seek refuge in neighbouring countries. Amongst those who stayed behind, hundreds got killed, maimed and others raped.

Rapes during political violence is tantamount to war crimes. One NGO is now in possession of more that a thousand of cases of rape against MDC supporters. You like it or not, these files will go before a criminal court against Mugabe and thugs. As much as all the documentation on the killings and maimings.

The current talks may grant Mugabe and thugs pardons, but these are valid only in Zimbabwe. Aggrieved victims now living in other countries can and will seize courts in those host countries against the butchers of Zimbabwe.

As per your own writing, it's lunatinc Mugabe and his thugs who are holding the hammer or the nail. You may perhaps have to change looking glasses in order to better see the extent to which murderer Mugabe has dehumanized his citizens and rendered them destitutes although their pockets may be full of billion Dollar notes!

Wake up and join us in the fight to make Africa a better place for ourselves and the future generations. Please bury your hatred and join in the reconstruction of Africa on a clean footing.

Let me just come in as the negotiator, our issue was on the Joc which is against the negotiations mainly because they are afraid of prosecution over the alleged operation wakavhotera papi. So please give us facts as to whether their individual security should hinder the needs of all the people or not. This is important because it will guide our negotiations here at Rainbow.

waammy114. You say you are not Rhodisian or Zimbabwean,l find it strange how you would lable our President an evil monster. Can you please enligten us how you get your info about Zimbabwe. pliz if you have nothing to say don't say it here. Prem save space for others your rubbish comments are too long. Keep them short just like your d...

Ah ah ah Chiki, have you been peeping at other men's privates again ? Matanyuri !

Dear Mr. Chiki, we (African Youth Group)are watching very closely how very nicely you are taking on enemies of His Emninence Comrade Robert G. Mugabe , President for life , of Zimbabwe. Thank you very much Zvakanaka! However it came to the attenshen of one of our Kommandeers that you made menshen of the size of another mans anatome in one of your posts. Sadly ZANU-PF (African Youth Group) cannot allow this kind of behavior, as you know the President has no room for peeples of those disposition in Zimbabwe. Please curb you urges to look at or comment on other mens anatome, this will keep you in good standing with the group, otherwise sadly if you keep this behavior up we must rccomend you join MDC , ZANU-PF has no use for this. Thank you again , Mr. Chiki. ZANU-PF (AYG).

Chiki, which planet are you on, my friend? Are you choosing to deliberately disregard what is there for everyone to see or are you perhaps just too stupid to see it.How could you possibly have missed the displacements and the killings of innocent Zimbabweans that Mugabe and his blooddrenched thugs unleashed after losing the March elections.Do you honestly want me to believe that was somehow a gimmick by 'puppets of the west'. And was that the first time that Mugabe has brutalised and butchered his own people? NO! Your Mugabe is indeed an evil beast who knows only one way to react whenever his authority is deemed threatened.Where do I get my information from? Well perhaps you too young to remember that he butchered thousands of your fellow countrymen in Matabeleland and that one of your nation's founding fathers{Joshua Nkhomo] had to escape disguised as a pregnant woman after Mugabe's notorious enforcer at the time promised to 'kill them all like dogs'. How about what happened to Kombayi when he dared challenge your Mugabe? The pattern was always there whenever Mugabe felt challenged or threatened, and that was to exterminate his perceived enemies. Was Tongogara's death coming so soon after he was the star at Lanchester House a genuine road accident. Only god knows, but me think not and so do innumerable Zimbabweans .

Chiki, which planet are you on, my friend? Are you choosing to deliberately disregard what is there for everyone to see or are you perhaps just too stupid to see it.How could you possibly have missed the displacements and the killings of innocent Zimbabweans that Mugabe and his blooddrenched thugs unleashed after losing the March elections.Do you honestly want me to believe that was somehow a gimmick by 'puppets of the west'. And was that the first time that Mugabe has brutalised and butchered his own people? NO! Your Mugabe is indeed an evil beast who knows only one way to react whenever his authority is deemed threatened.Where do I get my information from? Well perhaps you too young to remember that he butchered thousands of your fellow countrymen in Matabeleland and that one of your nation's founding fathers{Joshua Nkhomo] had to escape disguised as a pregnant woman after Mugabe's notorious enforcer at the time promised to 'kill them all like dogs'. How about what happened to Kombayi when he dared challenge your Mugabe? The pattern was always there whenever Mugabe felt challenged or threatened, and that was to exterminate his perceived enemies. Was Tongogara's death coming so soon after he was the star at Lanchester House a genuine road accident. Only god knows, but me think not and so do innumerable Zimbabweans .

Notha4ever, you are obviously a man of conviction and you, unlike idiots like Chiki, are quite ready to fight your corner in a sensible and intelligent manner. But your logic and line of argument in your last post appear to suggest that just because injustices and brutality were carried out against us in the past by white people, then it is okay for us to persecute, rape and kill our own people today. That surely cannot be right.The right thinking world condemned the injustice against us then just as they are condemning the injustice against us now viz a viz Zimbabwe.The people of Zimbabwe were in the end victorious against that injustice and so they shall be victorious against the present injustice.

"because injustices and brutality were carried out against us in the past by white people, then it is okay for us to persecute, rape and kill our own people today. That surely cannot be right."

Couldnt agree more. Violence is Violence is Violence. Dont continue the cycle. Be the bigger person. Just because others have murdered doesnt make it ok for me to murder also. Its murderers who use this lame excuse to justify the unjustifyable.

zanupf80, you cannot spell for beans. Instead of intimidating Mr Chiki, I suggest you go and get yourself an education you bloody bully.