Charles Cobb Jr. and Akwe Amosu
14 February 2003
(Page 2 of 4)
That makes it look like a personal thing. I know when people become antagonists and foes like [Winston] Churchill and [Adolf] Hitler or like [Lyndon] Johnson and Ho Chi Minh you do develop a personalization of war.People probably think there is a personal quarrel to be settled between President Bush And Saddam. And it seems to have come down to that now. There is this one man and maybe some of his cronies that we see on television - people like Tariq Aziz. Unless these people are removed, I believe there will be war.
Some people say the war has already started because there are some troops that have invaded northern Iraq which are said to be helping the Kurds. So it's a question of "can I eat while we go on talking about the chicken?"
What are the religious implications for a country like Nigeria, which has a significant Muslim population or for Africa as a whole?
There will be a lot of protest against the United States. I have said a number of times there will be protest against the United States from the students. The U.S. will have to reckon with students who are free and who have their own views. Particularly in the north (of Nigeria) they are going to demonstrate.
Nigeria will definitely protest any attempt to attack any country, particularly with the revelations coming out that this country will be taken over and ruled in what looks like a colonial occupation. Nigeria will definitely oppose that. And we do.
But let me tell you what will not happen. I don't think that, because of this, individual Americans are going to be at risk, that if they see an individual American they will go and attack him. To go and say, "This is American property" or "This is an American living here...he or she has come for Peace Corps, let's go and attack them." I don't think this will happen in Nigeria. It has not happened before.
And I don't think this will push Nigeria to sympathize with terrorism or people like Osama Bin Laden. People here know the difference between the brand of Islam in 'Sudan' - by which I mean Black Africa in a broad sense - and what obtains in Saudi Arabia which is strict Wahabi. We are always arguing with them when we go to Haj over what to do, what not to do - things like that. I do not think that whether they are Muslims in the north or the south of Nigeria, that they will in any hurry to line up with Osama Bin Laden.
Probably the anger in case of war with Iraq will not be so much with America but with any Arab country that seems to be siding with them. If there is anybody who will face Africans' physical wrath it will be any Arab state who is seen to be supporting America because they are looked on as traitors. It happened in 1990 when people in Kano [a key city in the Muslim north of Nigeria] were demonstrating against the Saudi embassy. I don't believe there will be any breaches of diplomatic relations. This is my own judgement, which may be wrong, but I don't think so.
There have been stresses and strains within Nigeria between the Sharia states in the North and the central government in Abuja. Does a U.S. war with Iraq exacerbate these kinds of strains?
No. That is a homegrown and a home-blooming and home-consumed problem. I don't think it is going to be exported. But it could happen accidently. In Kano, it would only take one man to make some kind of silly remark and you could have some problems there. If you mean people going about provoking each other, I don't think it will happen. Sharia is a Nigerian problem and is not particularly relevant to this United States effort to start a war in Iraq.
As somebody who is experienced in international diplomacy, I wonder how you feel about the international fall-out from this U.S.-Iraq crisis. The United Nations is under strain, the Europeans are deeply divided, there's great polarisation among governments who used to work together. Does any of that matter for Africa - if the multilateral institutions are weakened by all of this?
We don't know who is serious and who is bluffing. It is a serious problem. I was talking to some Americans last week - they were senior people - and they were saying: "You see, we are trying to push Saddam Hussein. If he know that for certain we are coming then he is going to comply. This is why we don't like what the French and the Germans are doing; because they are encouraging Saddam Hussein to be recalcitrant."
So you see, you don't know, when people are saying these things, whether they are bluffing or whether they are serious. Are all these things being said in America as a way to apply pressure? All this hardware moving east - is this just to apply pressure on Saddam Hussein or is it really serious?
We don't like it! We don't like it at all! We have no doubt that with the destruction of the Soviet Union, for whatever reason, America has a field day; they can do whatever they like.
But, like I was saying, we don't know who is going to be next and we don't know what's going to happen, for example, with age-old problems like the Arab-Israeli problem. We don't know what's going to happen with India and Pakistan. We don't know whether this pre-emptive strategy is going to be copied by other people - whether India will attack Pakistan, or whether some people will destroy their internal opposition by saying they are terrorists. When you throw a stone and it has left your hand, you don't know for certain where it will fall.
Let's turn to Nigeria. After the last election organised by the military government which handed over to President Obasanjo's newly-elected government, this is the first civilian-organised election of the third republic. Looking back to the second republic and the comparable election in 1983 (which, in the end, brought the military back to power, led by General Buhari) how does the current situation in Nigeria compare with that time?
There is no comparison. There has been no period in Nigeria at this time that is comparable to 1983. I was worried, before the [political party] conventions, that the situation was comparable to 1964, during the first republic, when there was so much division. There were very entrenched attitudes and positions. People in the south-west said they would support Obasanjo for the nomination, but if he didn't win, anything could happen. Ibos were saying we must have our own candidate. The northerners were saying we must have our own candidate; it looked very much like 1964 which was sad because it looked like it was taking us back nearly 40 years.
But after the nominations, Obasanjo won in the PDP; he stood as a very great icon. One of the greatest icons we have, Dr. Ekwueme, stood. He did not win - Ibos did not vote for him; obviously if they had, he might have got more. I think he got most of his votes from South-South, they refused to support Obasanjo under any circumstances. So he didn't get the Ibo vote. A northerner stood. He didn't get the votes of Kano [a key northern constituency]. He didn't get the votes of Benue. So that made it more or less a Nigerian, not an ethnic or regional thing.
And then the ANPP [held its convention]. There was a lot of argument. Some people withdrew. Some people refused to withdraw. Eventually they nominated General Buhari. Those who were unhappy in the PDP had an option. They went out - my friend Governor Nwobodo went out and became a candidate of the UNPP. It became just a general Nigerian thing.
I don't think it should be compared with anything now. Now it looks like it is a struggle among the political parties. The politicians can see what we call "the national cake" - and they want to eat it! They are working on it. As far as I can see there is no ethnic or religious anything. It is just politicians madly fighting to win.
Are you alarmed by this? You're on the way back to Nigeria to contest; do you expect to find only the cake crumbs?!
This fighting is what we should hope for from Nigeria. I want to see them fighting to win. Once they join hands and want a particular target they'll forget their tribe. They'll forget their religion. They will just want to win. This is what we want in Nigeria because it removes from the equation, race and tribe and religion.
But in 1983, for the man in the street it seemed disappointing that the politicians were doing just what you describe - very actively seeking their own private interests; the corruption was very serious. There was a sense that the politicians were just in it for themselves. That's why we wondered whether you saw a parallel between that civilian-to-civilian election and this one.
Be the first to Write a Comment!
AllAfrica aggregates and indexes content from over 125 African news organizations, plus more than 200 other sources, who are responsible for their own reporting and views. Articles and commentaries that identify allAfrica.com as the publisher are produced or commissioned by AllAfrica.
