Charles Cobb and Akwe Amosu
5 March 2003
(Page 2 of 2)
But if the concern was that Africans have also to voice their concern about the risk of war, I think it's a healthy concern. That's why we didn't [challenge it] - you know we usually raise our hand on almost all issues but this time around, we looked round the room, everyone was quiet, and we said, "OK, this is not, like, disastrous." If the resolution was condemning the U.S. or one country, then we would have raised an issue but it was broadly presented, that we think the UN system should work and that we should avoid war, so we said "fine".
In Paris also we had this declaration read by President Chirac. We agreed on the idea of starting it by saying that Iraq must disarm, we thought that was a thoughtful attitude because other countries would understand that we appreciate that the main issue is that Iraq should disarm. Now, all countries are under pressure -
Under pressure from the U.S., do you mean?
You know, that's funny because, you know, the dialectics of international politics... people tend to think that the U.S. is touring Africa - Cameroon, Angola, Guinea - and they are putting all this kind of pressure in order to have their vote. But which country in the world is today dealing with the most pressure? The U.S. itself! Because, having chosen the path of the UN security Council, the U.S. is doing its best to legitimise the whole process through the UN system.
Because the U.S. could do without the international community. Would that be good for the U.S.? It's their internal decision, but I would advise, as a friend of this country, that they should go with the international community. But they can do without us, they really don't need us to take care of this problem.
Some people are saying, "well, there is no effort from the U.S. because the decision is already made, they're going to war, 300,000 troops on the ground, the UN is clearly not relevant." But I think we need to be consistent. The UN system is relevant [to the U.S.], which is why Colin Powell is going to Japan, going to Korea, around the world and trying to sell the idea that this is the way to go and why Africa Under-Secretary of State Kansteiner is touring Africa and going back and forth. The U.S. is actually making a huge diplomatic effort to convince the Security Council.
So I think it's fair to notice that and acknowledge that the U.S. is working in the UN system and doing its best. Now, Senegal is not in the Security Council but it doesn't get us off the hook; of course, people are asking, what do you think? I think our position is fair and balanced, France likes our position, the U.S. likes our position, -
That sounds like a miracle!
- because I think it is extremely important to be yourself in this kind of situation! We have an excellent historical relationship with France - everyone knows that - we have always been the spoiled country within the Francophone system so this is not the time for us to run away. It is time for us to insist on our identity as a country that is independent, within the African system.
If I have to express our position in order of priority, I would say first, that this is the national interest of Senegal, then that this is the interest of Africa and then I will consider the interests of the international community; because like the Chinese who, I was told, when they draw the map of the world, they draw China first, and then they organise the world around China; so me, I draw Senegal and Africa first and then the rest of the world.
But did you feel that, to some extent, France was trying to manipulate Africa at the Franco-African summit? President Kagame and the Rwandans, for example, say they were not consulted, that the Iraq declaration was announced as a unanimous position even though they had not been asked.
That's interesting because I was sitting next to Mr Kagame - you know Rwanda comes next to Senegal in the alphabet - and he was out of the room having an audience with someone. I was speaking to his foreign minister when the declaration was read out and I saw him looking very anxious, then he went out to go and explain to his president, that's true.
But at the same time, what Mr Chirac explained was that he consulted with President Mbeki and because the African Union had already passed a resolution in Addis Ababa, he took that resolution and added one or two sentences and presented it. So I understand Mr Kagame, what he described is exactly right since he was not in the room when the decision was made but I don't think France was trying to [push] all the African countries in this, because we had the meeting in Addis Ababa and made the decision already with this resolution.
Of course, if the U.S. had an African summit in this period, they would say: "You know, guys, we want to disarm Iraq; lets work in the UN system, but if it doesn't work, let's take action!" Then everyone would clap and shout "bravo"!
So it isn't manipulation, it's international politics. And we Africans, we respect our host, you don't challenge the host! But then you have the courage to say, "this is our position." We did not challenge our host; but [after the Franco-African summit], President Wade said, "this is our position, we are not following France, we have our own views." I think that's the merit of the new African leadership - you are courteous to your friends but when it comes to stating the African position, you put Africa first.
This interview has been posted in two parts: to read Minister Gadio's views on the Cote d'Ivoire peace process, see : What Went Wrong with Ivory Coast's Peace Process - by Senegal's Foreign Minister
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