Charles Cobb Jr.
4 June 2003
(Page 2 of 2)
We don't want chaos! If Mugabe and his people were more tolerant, and interested in allowing any other body to take part in the political system they would have tolerated these elections [which put us into office in Harare] but they have refused. Somebody has to act to make sure that tolerance comes into play. And we are trying to look at Thabo Mbeki as President of South Africa. He is a giant in terms of [our] country, just like [former Rhodesian Prime Minister] Ian Smith was brought into line by South Africa. When Smith ended up at the negotiating table it was South Africa that had played a big role [in getting him there].
And South Africa needs to play a big role today. Thabo Mbeki must look at Zimbabwe as a crisis scenario rather than say, "that's the opposition, I'll only deal with government." We are expecting him to ask, "What is it that is causing all of these Zimbabweans to run away from Zimbabwe?" Within three years, how many are in South Africa? How many are in Botswana?
So you don't feel that Thabo Mbeki is putting enough pressure on Mugabe or the Zimbabwe government?
I wouldn't use the word pressure. I would call it engaging Mugabe, saying, "what are you achieving by this?" Because he [Mbeki] is sustaining him [Mugabe] on borrowed time. If Mbeki says, "let's get the truth," he will come up and say, "Mugabe, my brother, I'm here to help you sort out your problems." What has happened is sort of the opposite: let it languish until [the allegations are] proven about the government.
Tsvangirai has challenged the legitimacy of the last election. The reason we went to court is not that we trust the courts, but we want to show what has been going on to the world. That is the only platform that the MDC has. We know that we will not get any sort of judgement [in our favor] but if we can expose what has been happening, then the world can know exactly what we went through in the elections.
Speaking of courts, how worrying are the treason charges against Tsvangirai currently being heard in court?
It will continue. You can see that putting treason charges on every opposition leader is a trait of Mugabe's regime. Joshua Nkomo had treason charges placed on him; he had to run away in a dress last time. Ndabaningi Sithole ended up with treason charges accusing him of hiding some arms under a bridge. And today, Morgan Tsvangirai is going through the same thing. I don't think the MDC is thinking of using any violent means for change. It is trying to engage the government to commit to democratic principle, which it [the government] has refused to practice. Mugabe has declared that he is the only sovereign of Zimbabwe. And we are saying no! We are the sovereigns of Zimbabwe. But we are not allowed a voice on television. We are not allowed a voice on radio. We are not allowed a voice in the public arena. So where will we talk? And this is where we are saying that South Africa and the SADC (South African Development Community) region must look at this thing and ask, "Why must the opposition always be in prison?"
Mugabe calls us puppets. Is he considering the whole of Harare "puppets"? Why are they electing [us]? They cannot all be puppets. It is a view that Mugabe has managed to project. He has played the color card well. If we want to go for elections then we must allow people to say what they are supposed to say and elect people they want to elect without beating them into submission, without putting them in jail cells every time, without creating war cabinets for war against the people. Democracy. If we want chiefs then we should go to chiefdoms.
Right now we have lost more than three million people. Are they running away from good governance? A million Zimbabweans are in London. they are afraid of this administration, and what is Africa doing to stop this madness [in Zimbabwe]?
There is fairly significant disagreement with Mugabe's policies inside Zanu-PF. But no significant challenge to Mugabe from inside. Why not?
The fact is that these opinions are not surfacing and that we can only suspect that they are there, shows that [Zanu-PF members] are afraid of Mugabe. As long as that is true they will just keep their disagreements within themselves. This is further illustration of the fact that Mugabe must step down before we can do anything. Dissenting voices in Zanu-PF will not be able to raise up.
It's difficult to understand Mugabe. Is this a new Mugabe that we are looking at or is this a Mugabe that has always been there? We have Mugabe, on the one hand, one of the heroes of southern African liberation and on the other, the Mugabe who seems to be a tyrant clinging to power for 30 years.
Even in biblical terms, "The Lord anointeth leaders but they failed along they way." Show me a single policy that Mugabe has given in the past few months that shows that he is interested in developing the economy or the country. There is not a single one. He has talked about land and the land has been given away but there is no food. No one has been able to farm. There is no seed to do the farming in the shops. The time he has been in power is too long. Power has corrupted him absolutely. That is all I can say. It is now for historians to analyze.
What do you predict for Zimbabwe? Most immediately for this strike, and in the longer term, for the country.
Whatever Mugabe wants to do is not sustainable. All the leaders who are protecting him will discover that it is not sustainable. Zimbabweans are tired; they don't want him anymore. Mugabe and Zanu-PF must gear themselves to be in the opposition for a while.
We must learn to come out of government by election not to remain in power by force. I think Zimbabwe will be a unique place because so far it has demonstrated that people are [determined] to have a proper democracy by putting in the opposition in such numbers. If this world looked at it and encouraged it you would see that Africa would change, starting with Zimbabwe, allowing different voices to say what they can say, and be elected. Even if they are fools they should be elected, if that's what the people want, then they can elect a fool. Next time they won't elect a fool.
Will Mugabe step down?
He will but he needs enough pressure from the regional leaders because the Zimbabweans themselves have given him enough pressure.
Be the first to Write a Comment!
Copyright © 2003 allAfrica.com. All rights reserved. Distributed by AllAfrica Global Media (allAfrica.com). To contact the copyright holder directly for corrections — or for permission to republish or make other authorized use of this material, click here.
AllAfrica aggregates and indexes content from over 125 African news organizations, plus more than 200 other sources, who are responsible for their own reporting and views. Articles and commentaries that identify allAfrica.com as the publisher are produced or commissioned by AllAfrica.
