Théophane Patinvoh
29 July 2005
(Page 2 of 3)
Many readers may believe that your becoming Muslim has to do with the cause of the Niger Delta. To what extent is that true?
I will not say it has to do with the cause of the Niger Delta. As an individual, I wanted to serve God and to know him but there was a contradiction. I was not ready to turn the other cheek and I became a Muslim. I was not ready to believe that all authority is from God and we must be submissive to that authority. The only religion I saw that is suitable to my nature is Islam. It is only Islam that says we must resist evil wherever we find it. The prophet Mohammed said and I quote: "When you see evil in the land, you must resist it with your hand, you must speak against it with your tongue or you must hate it with your heart." That is the weakest of it. Mohammed also said: "The best thing to do to a tyrant ruler is to speak the words of truth." So that is it. Islam has helped me in my agitation because Islam accepts my role as somebody who should correct the ills of society and the fight against oppression even with my life.
Recently, you seemed to urge Nigerians to follow the leadership of a Muslim leader. Are you still standing by it?
I've never said they should follow the leadership of a Muslim leader. That's not true. What I said is that there are three people, all Muslims, from the north, who want to be leaders of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, of the Nigerian state. There is General Ibrahim Badamosi Babangida, who cancelled the freest and fairest election in the history of Nigeria won by Bashorun M.K.O. Abiola. Atiku is serving in the government of General Olusegun Obasanjo who is an enemy of our people and has shown open enmity against our people. Then, General Buhari who during his short span restored a form of discipline among the populace of the various nationalities that have also constituted into Nigeria. So as far as I'm concerned from the credentials, if they are going to choose somebody among them, General Muhammed Buhari has a better credential than any of the other two.
Is General Buhari supportive of your activities?
I don't even know him. I don't know him. I only read about him in the papers. It is just an assessment of the gang of jostlers. I'm just assessing them and there's nothing personal.
What do you think about the implementation of Sharia, or Islamic law? Do you think Sharia should be implemented in the Niger Delta region?
There's no room for implementation of Sharia in the Niger Delta because among the Ijaws the Muslims are less than 1 percent and they do not have political control of the Ijaw people. So how will Sharia be implemented? As far as this land is concerned Ijaw is not by rule Islamic. Ijaw is not antagonistic to Islam. It is not also an Islamic nation. So the issue of Sharia does not arise in Ijaw land. Personally as Muslims we can advocate for Sharia in our personal lives to govern our lives in whatever we do. We can appeal to the government of an independent Ijaw nation that we the Muslims of Ijaw land, we want to live under the Sharia. And in every democratic free society, the people will be allowed to live under their beliefs.
As a Muslim leader, because I can call you now a Muslim leader, do you know Tareeq Ramadan?
Tareeq Ramadan? No I don't.
You don't know Tareeq Ramadan? But do you know Osama Bin Laden?
Yes. I've read so much about him. I've read his statements and I admire him.
How do you relate with him?
I don't know him personally. I'm only reading about him and from reading about him I admire his courage as somebody who is challenging an arrogant, big bully called the United States of America.
Does your group share the same ideology with Osama Bin Laden?
Definitely not! My group is 99 percent made up of people who are not Muslims. About 3 million forms have been sent out. Muslims who have collected forms and have returned are not even up to 300.
What about you personally, since you named one of your children after Bin Laden?
Not after Bin Laden. Osama. Osama is an Islamic name. But in admiration of the courage of Osama I named my child Osama. But that is my own personal belief. I admire Osama. But there are certain activities that, whether rightly or wrongly, are credited to Osama Bin Laden. Like the 9/11, the beheading of people. It cannot be done by an Ijaw man. But 90 percent of the people who follow the Niger-Delta, people who volunteered for us, believe in Egbesu. The war deity of the Ijaw people that have some rules and regulations concerning the conduct of war in Ijaw land. And killing of innocent, unharmed people is not part of it. It abhors killing of innocent, unharmed people. So no Ijaw man will commit 9/11. No Ijaw man. No Ijaw man will also commit Hiroshima and Nagazaki. Except he does not believe and he does not bring himself under the protection of Ebgbesu. For somebody like me who do not have to believe or who is not under the protection of Egbesu who believes in Allah, even me I cannot kill an innocent man.
Coming back to the Ijaw philosophy now and coming back to you as Ijaw national. You seem to become a very controversial character nowadays you see, following your meeting with President Olusegun Obasanjo.
Controversies always trail the lives of people who are leading. So I am not bothered about those controversies. I met Obasanjo as a man and I spoke with him and I discussed with him. And as far as I am concerned, that is it! If he likes to take a part of honor by restoring that which belongs to us back to us, good! But if he does not then the struggle will continue until the victory is placed in the hands of our people.
What are you doing so that peace will prevail in the Niger Delta?
We are mobilizing the people. Serious mobilization is going on.
Is this mobilization of the people for the permanent peace or is it ahead of the 2007 presidential elections?
We are not concerned about any election. We are concerned about restoration of our sovereignty as a people. We are not concerned about anything Nigeria does. It is none of our business. Nigeria can go ahead and do whatever she likes as long as that which Nigeria is doing does not affect the well-being of the Ijaw people. So if Nigeria wants to destroy itself, fine. We will applaud them. We will even assist them. So our mobilization has nothing to do with any election. It has to do with the restoration of the sovereignty of our people.
In your personal record we got to know that you are very influential in this region and even government has to call on you sometimes to solve some crisis. What is your relationship with the government -- both the state and federal government?
During the crisis my relationship with the state government was not cordial but today it is very cordial and I meet with the governor anytime I want to meet him if he wishes to see me. I have no ill feelings. We've forgiven ourselves for whatever has happened. I have forgiven him. I hope that he also does not bear any grudge towards me. I don't bear any grudge towards him. For the federal government, I don't have any personal differences with General Olusegun Obasanjo, a man who has stolen the mandate of the people. I have no personal problem with him. On personal basis, if he relates to me, I will relate to him on that personal basis. But where I have my problem with him is very clear. Let my people go! That's my problem with General Olusegun Obasanjo.
Do you believe in democracy?
I don't know what democracy is. Democracy that has to do with the restoration of the rights of the people. Democracy that gives one man, one vote. Democracy that respects the fundamental rights of a people to their resources to their way of life, to their life, to everything. Then if that is democracy, I respect it. But it is not the democracy of the United States of America that you will go and occupy a sovereign country and order the whole world to follow suit. That democracy I don't accept. It is not the democracy of Abuja that comes and disfranchises the people; take their votes and right vote. That democracy I don't accept. It is not the democracy of Togo where a son will succeed a father. That democracy I don't accept. But if its democracy of government of the people, for the people and by the people, that democracy I accept.
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