Freedom Newspaper (Raleigh, North Carolina)
25 December 2007
interview
"Well just as I said earlier my answers before speak for themselves on this issue.Mr Mbai when I left many were harping on that (laughter). Today can those people count how many others has Yahya ejected from his so-called good books? Infact does Yahya have any good book? That is my question to you or anyone else? Where is Baba Jobe? Where is Edward Singhatey? How about the former DG Civil aviation Maimuna Taal? The woman is hard working and sound. Has Yahya not fallen out with her? He has. Has Yahya not shunned good men and women who have done more for The Gambia than I Essa? Yes he has. A husband can divorce one or two and still be excused. However, a husband who divorces wives every day in a year should look at his own marital record instead of blaming his in-laws. Take Yahya's case as the example given here and analyze if for yourself (laughter)," says Ambassador Essa Bokarr Sey.
He was speaking in an Exclusive interview with the Freedom Newspaper. Below is the full text of the interview.
Freedom Newspaper: Good day Ambassador Sey. What is your honest opinion about Governance in The Gambia today?
Essa Sey: Well Mr Mbai governance does not only stop at repeat versions of endless elections. There is more along the way. Lets say one of Africa's brightest sons the late Davidson Nicole of Sieraleone said this to me in 1994 at the British Council in Freetown the following during a conversation..."...youngman governance or democracy simply means access to resources..." Mr Nicole was absolutely right. If people do not have access to resources then what is the meaning of those resources? Resources vary. We have natural ones and indeed the most important are the people themselves, therefore the nucleus of any meaningful path towards development is the human resource itself.
When we say leadership, it means people are following. Wherever one leads, there are followers. That is why geography has human and physical geography. Stones, trees and hills are static they do not follow because they are inanimate. These are what we call natural resources. We as animate or living things are far more important than the hummers and jets being used everyday. Mr. Mbai...Have you ever met a dalasi note or dollar note roaming in the streets searching for a hungry person to feed him or her? You will never see that! Human beings use brains, come together and create currencies or other artificial things or aspects.
The moment we humans raise these things or aspects above our value or the value of others who may not have them means something is wrong some where. Therefore governance does not mean highways,bridges,hospitals and the like. It starts with rule of law and the respect for fundamental human rights and the values guarding the very existence of any given society. Laws should not be clubs and claws, laws should be the hubs of the wheels helping pull the chariots of time. We the people are the spokes! No spokes no wheels, no hubs no spokes! As simple as that.
Freedom Newspaper: President Jammeh said he cares less about how the West defines democracy. That Africa has its own democracy. What is your view on this?
Essa Sey: Mr Mbai, there is where Mr Jammeh got it all wrong. The west is not defining democracy, the west is promoting it. How can he the same person refer to the Greeks as the pioneers in that regard then turn around saying Africa has its own democracy? You see one thing I find strange about Jammeh is the strong feeling he exhibits showing himself as an Ambassador of Africa when his interest is at stake? That is subjective, it is not objective at all. When one says Africa? What exactly is the person trying to see in this context? Doesn't Africa copy good things too? You see the universal picture affects every body these days. Serious minds will never attempt "Africanizing" things for their own personal interest.
Mr Jammeh has to understand that, patriotism or "Africanism" has been raped by so many leaders before him but history tried and sanctioned those leaders at the end. He may say he cares less out of frustration but in reality we all know the "bottomless pits" and things below such echoing bluffs! I for one will not even waste my breathe on that one because I know that he cares if and when his political interest is at stake. Was he not the champion on the war against terrorism in January 2003? What happened along the way? His letters(signed versions) are still here with us. There are westerners who criticize their governments far more than we as Gambians dare criticize his. Is that what we will call African democracy?
Sundiata Keita of Mali was more tolerant than any so-called ruler in Africa today! Is Mandela not African? Didn't he serve for 26 years? What vindicated him? Democracy! That democracy as universally respected! Look Mr Mbai I do not like seeing "uniform" approaches being used for the sake of greed and zeal. Selfless approaches usually make lesser noise than selfish ones! Certainly I for one know that Mr Jammeh cannot even stand near me when it comes to Pan Africanism. He may have the opportunity of making more noise but that does not give him the visa of being a Pan Africanist! No! on my side I stand to deny him that privilege. If he wants he can challenge me on a debate on that any where at any time. Certainly knowing Jammeh he will frown on that one. However, if he really understands what true Pan Africanism means then he should honour my invitation so that him and I can debate on the issue. Caring less about the west? Jammeh saying so? Anyway legacies judge leaders, so let him look at his own and see if his principles vis-à-vis the West are not full of fungi?
Freedom Newspaper: What kind of democracy do you want to see in The Gambia?
Essa Sey:The democracy that was defined on a universal plateau of sound minds. The democracy that brings peace,love,harmony and progress. The democracy that will not see a President reading speeches while fuming in anger. The democracy that will be so tolerant and versatile. The democracy that will entrench term limits, but not the one that will stamp 40 years extra time for a President who is 40 years old. the democracy that will see checks and balances but not the one that will see checks without balances. The democracy that will respect public opinion but not the one that will shun the voice of the people. The democracy that will allow dissent but not the one that will put wax on the ears of the leader and then see enemies out of criticism or genuine observation. The democracy that will encourage journalism but not the one that will replace journalism with vandalism. The democracy that uses people as the base and leaders as servants! That is the one I wish for Gambia our Gambia! If Mr Jammeh chooses to do all these then I will call him a democrat. For now I cannot call him a true democrat. Why? Because he gets angry when reading his Tobaski speeches. He should have left that in the hands of law makers. He should have spoken at the mosque, speak peace and do good. On Tobaski day or Eid-el-Adha The Prophet taught every believer to make peace, stay in harmony and entertain his or her family. If Mr Jammeh sees himself as the President then he should see every citizen as a member of his family. No head of a society or family speaks angrily to his or her people in an angry tone on feasts like Tobaski. He should study Islam or his own culture more and more. Let him not stop at the incantations or "sirk" let him gather more knowledge before uttering any word next time.
Freedom Newspaper: How would you rate Jammeh's developmental programs? Are these projects making any impact on the lives of Gambians?
Essa Sey: Yes there are things done during his time which we all need. Of course I am not going to be so hateful by saying that,he has done nothing! Even if he developed a kilometer on each road it means something. My beef with Mr Jammeh is not about infrastructures only. My beef with him is that he personalizes those projects. That is false and ungrateful if he does so. Mr Jammeh alone could not have developed anything. Let him stop this feeling of "me-me-me!" No one is denying that it is after 1994 that we had a TV station. However, Mr Jammeh should also remember the days some of his envoys spent 24 hours round the clock negotiating those projects. He is the leader, Yes but he is not alone when it comes to these development projects. The developers are the tax payers! After the HIPC debt relief was announced why were they jubilating in Banjul? This is why I once advised him to stop using Allah's name when talking about banks!
This is on record in the net. Allah in Suraatul Iqlaas is defined as the one who has no children neither does he have parents. Allah is omnipotent and omnipresent for those who believe! Therefore if he uses Allah or God he should refer to the spiritual signs not the material ones. This is why these projects cannot be personalized! They are there because the people are there. Jammeh has to know that Allah or God could have erected those projects even without having created someone called Yahya Jammeh. If Allah or God ordains these to be erected during his time he should simply praise that Allah in hiding and then keep his mouth tight. Allah or God does not like people who sing their own praises when the unexpected happens. This is how a warrior in Cayor finished himself when Sering Bamba asked him not to praise himself after winning a battle with the colonialists. The warrior disobeyed Bamba and saw his tragic end on the spot. Allah comes to start or end anything at His own will.
Freedom Newspaper: Has Jammeh failed as a leader?
Essa Sey: It all depends on what circumstances we are talking about. For the specifics he has scored goals here and there. For the general Yes so far he has not reached the target per se. Jammeh's political set back is caused by Jammeh himself. Missing some answers does not stop someone from repeating the tests of time. But for Jammeh he thinks he is so important that he is now at the rank of prophets (God forgive me). That is what will end up stopping his star. Sure Mr Jammeh cannot tell me that nothing can stop his star. If he continues the current trend he will one day come back and say on the whole freedomnewspaper and other critics were the genuine ones. We will all go through the tests of time. He will be seeing his results along the way.
Freedom Newspaper: What makes you to disagree with President Jammeh at this hour? Has Jammeh offended you?
Essa Sey: Mr Mbai, it is on record. For the past years I have been saying that I do not hate Yahya Jammeh. Of course I care less if he hates me because he is not God. Him and I do not share political thinking anymore therefore the cause of our problem. I for one do not care either if Jammeh stays there getting angry with me. You know Mr know Mbai everything in life depends on how one conceptualizes it. In my mind I am a free person who will never succumb to callous behavior to the extent that I will not speak the truth. That is where I and Jammeh cannot cooperate anymore. If he sees himself as someone immortal I Essa see him as a mortal figure. He cannot be another Prophet. In Islam the last Prophet was Muhammad period.
In Christianity or other religions Jammeh cannot even fit the post of Priesthood let alone being a Reverend. He cannot. In the field of the spiritual doctors let him not even think that he has reached the stage to be crowned! I care less about how so-called supporters want to paint him. Let them not fool Yahya Jammeh,he is not what they are making him believe! Having led a coup does not make him extraordinary. If he claims to be so powerful then what will Amadou Tumani Toure of Mali say? This man overthrew one of Africa's worst military rulers Musa Traore. Amadou trusted God and handed over power to Alpha Oumar. The same Amadou came back to power untouched. I personally met Amadou Tumani in Paris during a summit that was organized by Friends of Africa in France. He is a very,very,very humble person. Couldn't he also have claimed special powers? He has been on the seat of power on two occasions. But never will anyone hear Amadou make loud noise. How about Nino Viera of Guinea Bissau?
Freedom Newspaper: Many sacked public officials have reconciled with Jammeh. Why are you not opening line of reconciliation between you and Jammeh? What's the problem?
Essa Sey: Mr Mbai,reconcile with who? Yahya Jammeh? Let him first explain why the need to reconcile with him? I care less about reconciling with someone who sees reconciliation as a defeat for the one who came to meet him. If he thinks he does not need me, I really have more of that feeling than he imagines. I do not have sweet words for Jammeh if he believes that without him none can live. After all were people not thriving before Yahya took over power? He knows me. He knows what I was doing before he took over power. Reconciliation is so sweet when it is meant to foster cordial relations, but it is harmful when being used to trap and belittle someone in the future. I am not saying that is what he wants but I think Jammeh's track record with many of those he reconciled with in the past speaks for itself!
Freedom Newspaper: Will your conscience allow you to work with the Jammeh Government again? If no, what are your reasons?
Essa Sey: Just as I said before. Personally I cannot see any reason why I should even entertain waiting for Yahya Jammeh's jobs or handouts?! Why?! However as a being created by Allah or God I do not want to take the latter's place in my destiny. One thing though. Allah or God loves the determined. He helps them. This is why faithful people like Bamba,Baye Nyass and others never bowed before the colonialists. Didn't they eat and drink? Certainly they had more comfortable lives than the colonial governors themselves. Where is Sanni Abacha today? Dead! Is Nigeria dead? No!
Where is Jawara today? Is Yahya his former body guard not the president? Yes. Mr Mbai the answer is in the hand of Allah or God.
Freedom Newspaper: Many Gambians are wondering how come that Essa Sey is today in the bad books of Yahya Jammeh considering your past close ties with Jammeh. What wrong or crime have you committed to warrant such a blacklisting?
Essa Sey: Well just as I said earlier my answers before speak for themselves on this issue.Mr Mbai when I left many were harping on that(laughter). Today can those people count how many others has Yahya ejected from his so-called good books? Infact does Yahya have any good book? That is my question to you or anyone else? Where is Baba Jobe? Where is Edward Singhatey? How about the former DG Civil aviation Maimuna Taal? The woman is hard working and sound. Has Yahya not fallen out with her? He has. Has Yahya not shunned good men and women who have done more for The Gambia than I Essa? Yes he has. A husband can divorce one or two and still be excused. However, a husband who divorces wives every day in a year should look at his own marital record instead of blaming his in-laws. Take Yahya's case as the example given here and analyze if for yourself(laughter).
Freedom Newspaper: In your own view, what must have contributed to the strained relationship between you and Jammeh? Will you attribute the problem to spiritual work or what?
Essa Sey: (Laughter!) Spiritual work? Maybe Jammeh himself can explain that because he is the one with spiritual powers not me (laughter). I am a simple person who believes in Allah or God and I think He chose that time for me to be with Yahya and ended it at His own will. If it was spiritual then most likely the spirits helped me from being maimed by the CHIAKAS (laughter) instead. It is really funny and so sad to see us in 2007 be referring to spirits instead associating the variables within a social scientist's perspective. Hey Mr Mbai,we blame spirits for every evil thing and then praise ourselves for every good achieved. That is typical within our midst (laughter). I do not substitute Allah with spirits! He created them. Infact He said we humans are more important than even the angels.
Freedom Newspaper: Do you miss Yahya Jammeh, the one you used to know at the Depot? What kind of person is Jammeh?
Essa Sey: Certainly at a personal level Yes! Yahya has changed over the years so much! That negative change makes me despise his approaches more and more. At depot Yahya was humorous while reserving a cantankerous side of being at all times. He is indeed not the same Yahya now. Power has corrupted him so much. He needs to be very careful. I swear by Allah am not joking Yahya has to stop and think for a while and mellow down. For sure he will regret taking this negative route of arrogance and excessive anger with disrespect sooner than he expects it to happen. Let him go ahead.
Freedom Newspaper: How do you managed to sustain the pressure over the years from Gambians who perceived former Public officials as stumbling blocks in their quest towards opposing Jammeh?
Essa Sey: Mr Mbai,I have never been pressured by anyone. I am one person who sleeps,eats,reads,works and prays every day. Mr Mbai if Yahya Jammeh's endless threats are not pressurizing me, do you expect me to waste my time thinking about subjective personal feelings towards my being coming from those you referred to? Oh not at all. I for one have proven myself beyond any reasonable doubt that I can survive without a government job. Those who started saying am angry because I lost the privileges have been silenced. I knew I could silence them because I am determined. Mr Mbai I am not a carrot-eater where I can lay hands on pumpkins(laughter) I mean I am not going to stop half way and eat less when I know the long route can lead me to a super market. Where am I now? God knows!
Freedom Newspaper: Serving one's country is not a crime. Why should Essa Sey be blamed for merely associating himself with Yahya Jammeh?
Essa Sey: Well Mr Mbai the root of your question complemented the answer! (laughter) How many will be blamed for that now? They are countless. Is Yahya himself not resorting to using the old PPP Guards? Were these very people not the AFPRC taboo from 1994-2001? History is a long story Pa.
Freedom Newspaper: What needs to be done to increase the awareness of Gambians who are in the habit of passing wrong judgment on former public officials?
Essa Sey: The duty lies on those former officials. People are the buyers in this super market of politics and those serving are the "sellers". The "commodities" are the services they offer! Let them explain themselves and then leave the rest to time and common sense. If the Gambian public has the right to judge, public officials also are obliged to defend their cases.
Freedom Newspaper: How do you get into the diplomatic filed? Was this a passion or just a job offered to you by the President?
Essa Sey:President Jammeh found me in it. It was under him that I was promoted but he did not employ me into the foreign service. I would say I liked the military and diplomacy since school days. God being so great He opened the gates for me into both fields. I really thank Allah or God for that! No one can seize my experience from me God willing, that much I can say.
Freedom Newspaper: What it takes to be a good diplomat?
Essa Sey: Diplomacy is like window shopping. If one is a diplomat he or she should be a clean window therefore show the inside of the store to those who are interested in buying. Diplomats are sales agents. Anything less than that means being an envoy without a message!
Freedom Newspaper: How would you honestly evaluate Gambia's foreign policy today?
Essa Sey: At the moment it is at ground zero! I mean exactly that. Let those at the edge of things come forward and debate me on that. I invite all of them, embassy by embassy. I have my facts to defend my position.
Freedom Newspaper: Observers say Gambia's Foreign Policy has changed dramatically in recent times. That the country's foreign policy has shifted to Arab nations and the Middle East. What do you make out of this?
Essa Sey: The issue is not about shifting, it is about statistics. The statistics of achievements are low. The statistics of compilation or repetition are increasing. You know reading books and getting bags of certificates does not make one a practical diplomat. Diplomacy is an art. There are good actors and there are bad actors. Well just look at the writers strike in Hollywood. Are all writers actors or actresses? Not at all!
Freedom Newspaper: What would you attribute Gambia's move to befriend the Middle East?
Essa Sey: The foreign policy chief is the head of state. This head of state was mandated by the people to lead. This is why anything pertaining to running missions abroad should reflect public interest. It should not be based on the whims and caprices of a single mind! That is, Jammeh opens missions without effective mapping or zoning. His is done out retaliation but not out of essence. That's not good!
Freedom Newspaper: The United Nations General Assembly recently rejected Taiwan's move to be admitted into the global body. What do you make out of such a political development?
Essa Sey:My position supports that of the USA. Taiwan needs to listen to SOS Rice on that one period.
Freedom Newspaper: Taiwan has been employing "check book diplomacy" with the sole aim of soliciting support from poor nations such as the Gambia. In your view, does the Gambia have that voice to influence major decisions at the UN?
Essa Sey: Taiwan is wasting its time near Banjul on that. They of course maybe engaged on ego-massaging but they know so.I love Taiwan and the Taiwanese but when you love someone tell them the truth. I will never encourage Taiwan to take the path of confrontation! That is not to their interest at all. You never know maybe one day things will work. Why not? Because Kosovo's case is also on the agenda of world affairs. Polisario has also been on the scene for a while. How about the lingering strings over Cyprus etc etc... These are not exactly the same situations but there are similarities here. That is why Taiwan needs to copy the route that Hongkong took and use "calm" methods instead of irate ones!
Freedom Newspaper: Taiwan and Main Land China, which of these two, would you prefer in terms of establishing diplomatic ties?
Essa Sey: Please refer to my above answer. Mainland is a force to be reckoned with in the world. They have veto powers at the UN. They are an economic giant so dealing with them demands being tactical not confrontational.
Freedom Newspaper: As a former Gambian Ambassador to Taiwan, what can you tell us about Taiwan's interest in Gambia? Is the diplomatic relations between the two nations only based on dollar?
Essa Sey:(Laughter) Dollar? Taiwanese dollar or US dollar? (Laughter). Anyway there is no where in the world where politics is not based on interest. However, if this interest is more personal than national then something is wrong on the side of the leadership. I hope Taiwan has learned its lesson with the experience their official side passes through when trying to convince the Taiwanese public on such issues? Taiwan is a democratic society so any dollar that goes out will be traced and scrutinized sooner or later. Lets leave time to reveal. I am not in for speculations but I am also not in for accepting dollars over the dignity of The Gambia as a nation.
Freedom Newspaper: What can you tell us about the recent diplomatic war of words between Banjul and Dakar? What do you foresee in situations like this?
Essa Sey:Jammeh feeds on such petty quarrels sometimes I wonder why he has all this time finding out little issues where there is no need to fight in the first place! Just as Gadio said.."Senegal and The Gambia are two states within one people" Dakar also is not blame-free! They have to be ready to sit and talk frankly at the UN maybe or any independent venue. Otherwise both sides will be held responsible if our generation degenerates. The Gambia and Senegal must forget about old references and judgments, let them involve research centers and independent intellectuals on this issue. Let them(both govs) be ready to respect the outcome of such findings. No ego-massaging here. This is exactly what both governments need to do. Otherwise trying to see a special breed in Dakar or establishing a stubborn regime in Banjul is not the genuine answer. Border disputes or counter accusations are not uncommon in Africa. Look at the Rwanda-DRC dramma. Look at what led to the Biafra war etc etc. These are deep differences which were created by colonialists and neo-colonial power hungry souls. Infact spending time on such border disputes means these regimes are still far from the horizon of unity. We must integrate as smaller African nations if we want to be counted on the world stage as serious partners in development. If African unity is would be conducted as a test case...the Senegambia one is best formular to be tried. If we fail then can anyone say Africa will unite in the near future? Politicians are players but they cannot see themselves as the only answer.
Freedom Newspaper: Jammeh has repeatedly accuses President Wade of backing Gambian dissidents, whom he says were posed to overthrow his government. Do you really believe Jammeh's story?
Essa Sey:Overthrow who Yahya? Well I thought Yahya warned Gambians during the days of Kumba Yalla of Guinea Bissau that if anyone tries him people will swim in pools of blood. I think what I could hear in the streets of Banjul from that day none will want to swim in blood! So let him keep his arms. As for Senegal and these accusations from Yahya, my take on this is that... Abdou Diouf was accused, Wade also is being accused today. That means even if another President takes over from Wade Yahya may still accuse that person as well.
Are these accusations used for his political survival or are they real? As I said earlier Mr Mbai,it is only serious research and serious advises from impartial parties who can help bring understanding between these two states. If not such suspicion will ever remain there. Sometimes politicians use such accusations to their own advantage. Where does Yahya or Wade stand on this? Researchers,intellectuals,journalists,impartial parties can help give us the hidden answers!
Freedom Newspaper: How about Dakar's claims of Jammeh backing MFDC rebels?
Essa Sey:The last time I remember I heard Wade calling Yahya a Pan Africanist! Is Jammeh backing the Casamance rebels? I hope not cause if he does then he is the one to be accused in return right? What I said earlier on is coming back. That is, the subjective feelings and accusations being levied against one another for hidden reasons. Yahya's roots touch Casamance. Wade is the President of Senegal and Casamance is a hot spot in Senegal. Then one needs serious studies to end this hullabaloo.
Freedom Newspaper: Are you impressed with the way the two leaders handled the current strained diplomatic relationship between Banjul and Dakar?
Essa Sey: Am not impressed by anything meant to promote difference and disputes! Dakar also has always been living in this feeling of "Eh Gambien" They have to stop seeing The Gambia as "petit frere" or "little brother". Banjul in turn has to stop suspecting every word Dakar says! All this nonsense was created by colonial borders. After all Mr Mbai is there any Gambian who does not have a relative in Senegal? There is none! Neither is there any Senegalese who can dissociate him or herself from us Gambians! We are destined to live together by force(naturally). No leader on both sides can ever stop that!
Freedom Newspaper: What can you tell us about MFDC rebels using The Gambia as a save haven?
Essa Sey: Are they?(laughter)....Mr Mbai,there is one Sheriff who once said this ".....petrol does not put off fire or flames.." You know Mr Mbai,sometimes in all this I am inclined to blame Yahya Jammeh because he is the one who makes so much noise. He is the one who also suddenly jumps into things reacts or speaks when any rumor or word comes out. Even if Yahya wanted to genuinely help maintain peace in Casamance during the days of Sedat Jobe as foreign minister, he made a big mistake by allowing Alexandra Djibba stay at the Atlantic hotel. These are the ways he misses a win when playing the political chess game. Now with certain traces in the hands of others even if he meant well can't those alos accuse him of having played a role in the past? Today I can see the same Djibba being taken to court charged for espionage and terrorism? What?! One thing The Gambia should be careful of is when one of those rebel leaders decides to speak on le soleil in Senegal as well. How about if they also use the media to implicate Yahya more and more. Yahya thinks he is being helped by his band of Gambian diplomats and intel officers but he will reap nothing but endless shocks again. The situation is more complicated than he thinks. There are so many traces and facts being established against him. For sure he started the whole show, let him not run away when it bounces back.
Freedom Newspaper: What's the best way to remove Yahya Jammeh from power? Don't tell me arms struggle.
Essa Sey: Mr Mbai(laughter) "don't tell me" sounds controlling,Essa's soul is not to be told do this or do that! Anyway my professional background is based on two major paths these are military and diplomacy. In this case I would choose the latter. Former President Jawara once said this at the Independence stadium..."Jaw-Jaw is better than War-war!" Removing Mr Jammeh from power is already taking it course. Human intelligence is what will remove him from power. That is what removed any other ruler from power before.
Freedom Newspaper: What relationship do you have with Vice President Isatou Njie Saidy?
Essa Sey:Mr Mbai,politics can cause sad situations sometimes...Ammm...sometimes I feel very uncomfortable addressing Vice President Njie Saidy's role in the government. I cannot deny that we are related neither can she. We are both from the same roots. She is older than I am therefore in my traditional upbringing I cannot disrespect her at all. However, one thing I want to make clear today to everyone is that it is 1996 that I first met Isatou. We first me at Barra terminal, while en route to Jokadu.These were the days before Jammeh ran for elections as a military ruler. I never met Isatou in my life. I heard about her before as a family member from my mother but did not know who she was. I knew her little brother Assan Njie at the military barracks. I also know her blind brother and her sister Yamundow Njie. These are fine people whom I cannot really address in a wild way(laughter). I also knew Isatou's sister(or cousin) Mussu Kebba Njie who once was crowned Miss Brikama. Isatou herself I really did not meet before.
But Mbai,the issue here is not about blood relations it is all about positions in the field of politics. Look I understand that my nephew in North Carolina Omar Jallow is a full supporter of the APRC but you saw him shed tears when he read the story on my disable child Baba Sey. Vice President Njie Saidy herself knows Baba. Therefore Mr Mbai all I can say to Isatou is this..."If she shuns me or others because of Yahya Jammeh,let her also remember that I Essa knew Yahya in 1983.." I understand that a lot is being said within our village about my position but let them be very careful. Once a bird always a bird. Isatou and I are related Yes. Isatou and Baba Lee(Imam) are related Yes. That was there before Yahya Jammeh. I also will not disrespect Isatou,however,let the whole world know that my father catered for me to be what I am before I met Isatou. Isatou did not do anything for me neither can she ever make me become anything. God or Allah is the one who can. I will not say I care less about Isatou but let her also not be fooled by thinking that I will stop criticising the government because of her. She has kids who read these things,I do also have kids reading these things. Come what may I will never bow God willing when I met Isatou any where in the world(which may happen one day).
Freedom Newspaper: How do you feel when people antagonizes her in the internet?
Essa Sey: Mr Mbai I feel nothing different when they do the same to Yahya. Infact I knew Yahya before knowing Isatou. I was closer to Jammeh than Isatou even though she is my relative. Infact Mr Mbai,I can bet despite all the problems with Jammeh,I am sure he would make an Ambassador where Isatou would not even think about making me a director. I know that for a fact. Isatou and I are related(blood) but we do not share the same political or social taste. At all! This means I really do not care if she is antagonised on the net because we are discussing national issues not personal or family ones! If I were to see someone insult her personally then I would step as a cousin and defend her because thats not meant to develop our country. I will never insult her personally and let no one expect that from me.
Freedom Newspaper: Many Gambians believe that Isatou had betrayed them following her "irresponsible'" statement that the student demonstrators killed themselves. Do think history will judge your sister fairly?
Essa Sey: Well I think speeches are either judged or disregarded. Her's was judged by then and is still being revisited. Many people were also misconstrued at the material time. Isatou's speech at the time had no essence. Why? Because when Jammeh came back he made his own speech and used his usual disrespectful vibes against the families who lost their loved ones. So why defend someone who does not respect you? Well Mr Mbai that episode will ever stay in our minds as a nation.
You know when a state controls every news outlet in the time of crises most likely many may end up being misled.
Freedom Newspaper: How comes that Isatou has survived all these years with Yahya Jammeh, with no one replacing her? Is the Jokadu grand marabout looking out for her?
Essa Sey: A marabout in Jokadu? Whose that?(laughter) She is there because she is the type who can serve as Jammeh's VP period. When that ceases she will be ejected,simple as that.
Freedom Newspaper: If you have the chance of meeting Isatou today, what advise will you give her?
Essa Sey:Nothing more than "Honna Mbadhaa Mawnam?" Means.."How are you my elder sister?"
Freedom Newspaper: Has Isatou changed or she is still the same Isatou Njie Saidy you used to know in Kuntaya?
Essa Sey; Changed? Anyway she is far older than I am so judging her along those lines will be unfair. Isatou's immediate family moved out of Kuntaya to resettle in Brikama years back. I cannot really say if she has changed or not. I will judge her unfairly then.
Freedom Newspaper: Is Isatou angry with you because of your refusal to reconcile with Yahya Jammeh?
Essa Sey: Isatou angry with me? I cannot establish that fact. Mr Mbai apart from God there are two people I would really not want to be angry with me. These two are my mother and father. My father was so close to me until he died in 1996. My mother loves each and every one of her kids so much. Even if Isatou was to be angry with me it may not be related to politics I hope? If it is something political then I will not budge.
Freedom Newspaper: Are you in speaking terms with Isatou? Why should Isatou visit the US without checking on you as a family member? Are you allowing politics to divide you as a family?
Essa Sey:Well Mr Mbai you have scored a point there. However,if Isatou Njie Saidy does not want to call I have other officials from other countries calling me. My family is not a 'dependent' one, we will respect Isatou but will care less if she decides to shun us because of political difference. Well there were times when she wrote a letter thanking me and my wife because we really took care of her delegation in France. She knows if Essa is a miser or not. She also knows if I have ever disrespected her in the past. If she the elder decides to start snubbing me because our political stands are different then I will leave God to substitute her position as my elder sister. The same God knows I am not wrong. One thing is obvious there are so many asylees who became great men and women later on in life. I will never abandon her or her kids in the time of need.
Freedom Newspaper: Why don't you take the initiative as his junior brother to call her?
Essa Sey: Call her? Oh Mr Mbai why are you asking all these questions on Isatou?(laughter) Can you please give me her number then knowing how connected journalists could be(laughter). Please when calling try and make it threeway(laughter) Mr Mbai,I am fine and I love my country that is what matters!
Freedom Newspaper: Do you harbor any grudges against Jammeh?
Essa Sey: Never ever! However, If I tell you or anyone that am not unhappy with him am lying. I cannot hide my feelings. Mr Jammeh has betrayed the reasons that led to the change in 1994. He has not angered only Essa Bokarr Sey,he angered many others. All those singing his praises today will be the first to run away from him when he leaves the seat. That will happen God willing.
Freedom Newspaper: Why is Jammeh unpopular in the West now? Will you revisit your days as Ambassador in DC compared to now?
Essa Sey; Mr Jammeh's unpopularity stems from things he himself says or does. Now the worse part means he has no intension of listening to advise because those near him found the rice field ready to be harvested. They did not weed it with him. The yield may either be good or bad. After harvesting he will know what he did in the past. He will know if he failed the tests of time or not.
Freedom Newspaper: Why is Jammeh unable to keep friends?
Essa Sey: Keeping friends can either be selfish or selfless. He lost political friends, family friends and "economic" friends. Now how can any person touch all angles lose and then blame the angles? Please refer to my previous answers that is, where I mentioned Baba Jobe and others.
Freedom Newspaper: How do you come to know Tijan Masanneh Ceesay Ekou Bopai?
Essa Sey: I came to know Tijan Massaneh Ceesay through President Jammeh himself,Manlafy Jarju,James Kujabi. Jammeh himself while on consultations with him before reaching DC in 2002 told me to maintain Tijan because he was a true patriot. Afterwards Manlafy Jarju too stood to confirm that position for me. I came and found the zeal in Tijan. Come what may I would never say I regretted working with T(teasing).
Like every person Tijan has his negative side too. His negative side is that he wants to appease everyone at once. That is not possible!
Freedom Newspaper: Is Ekou a bad person as widely perceived?
Essa Sey: Is that so? Tijan maybe someone who talks a lot but being a bad person is just too extreme to call him. I care less about those who tag people through "darkened" telescopes. Many a times people who sit at corners coughing against others are the problem itself. Tijan Massaneh Ceesay knows if I Essa care about appeasing with him if he was all that bad. He knows me because we worked in the same office for a year. He knows if I am the one who will sell him sweet words for no reason. There are people like Omar Jallow in North Carolina who independently told me how Tijan was helpful to Gambians when he had a huge house in New Jersey. I did not know Omar Jallow knew Tijan before. I care less about saying good things about anyone Tijan included. All I am saying is between me and Allah then my grave.
Freedom Newspaper: Many public servants believe that without government job, they cannot survived. What advise do you have for sacked officials?
Essa Sey: Look at my previous answers Mr Mbai. You know what I am doing and where I am working. When I left my office I joined different IT Professions. Now I have graduated and I am earning a living. That is what education is meant to benefit someone. Leaving Yahya should be a yard stick,it should be a decision! Decisions taken should always be based on reasons not instincts. I thank Allah so much. My wife never worked when I was a diplomat now she works and earns. This adds more, before I was the only one doing. Therefore for me the change means personal development and I mean this Mr Mbai.
Freedom Newspaper: What can you tell us about Abdoulie Kujabi?
Essa Sey: Abdoulie Kujabi all I can say is a good man. He indeed has enemies like myself, you and others. He is a blood relative of Mr Jammeh the president. He was the former director of the NIA. People used to attribute certain things to the agency during his time, but I think history has proven the contrary now. So many have died after Laye Kujabi. The same used to be associated with Sanna Sabally. Well I think God has cleared that side too. Sanna is gone but people are still being killed in The Gambia. President Jammeh himself introduced me to Abdoulie Kujabi like he did with Tijan Ceesay. I did not know these people before. They did not know me either. Him Mr Jammeh created these connections and today is shunning those people as if they are worse than snakes? Can anyone near Jammeh today love him more than Kujabi? Anyone who says so is a liar. Today Jammeh is parading his strength with pride. He is dissociating himself from these individuals. All those people cannot be bad and Yahya is still good. Kujabi was known in Banjul as a courts clerk. I have not met a single person who said Kujabi is rude. This means Jammeh is searching for scape goats, using people and then thinking he can dispose them off like tissue paper? Those who say leaving Jammeh means one cannot survive are non believers. They are even worse than non believers.
Freedom Newspaper: Is it true that Jammeh wanted to hire you at some point to head the NIA when you were fired from the DC Embassy?
Essa Sey: I heard the same rumors after my recall. But the same government wrote on its daily observer that I was recalled for undisclosed reasons. The same sources informed you Pa Nderry while you were in The Gambia that I was fired. The same sources denied that on the Washington post. The same sources used agents to send sour emails against my name on the internet. How about that? Infact even if that was true,I might have taken Daba Marenah's place in the March coup! So God so great I listened to my conscience and felt the pulse of society therefore stopped, then jumped out of the speeding train of endless suspicions and character assassinations.
Freedom Newspaper: What's your humble opinion about the NIA today? Is it a real intelligence outfit or just another APRC political bureau?
Essa Sey: It is not, and will never be as far as party politics is not extracted from its functions. NIA is just a name all this noise they are making means nothing. Intelligence is not meant to plan how to kill or poison people. Intelligence should be used to help strengthen the positive side of the invisible structure of any given system. He who uses Intel officers to eliminate political opponents will receive the same fate when counter intelligence strikes back. These actions from the NIA will only help strengthen bad blood in The Gambia. They can defend the flag without killing. Community policing is far more important that sneaking and lying agents.
Freedom Newspaper: Any last words?
Essa Sey: Thank you very much Mr Mbai for granting me an interview. Infact I was taken by surprise when you called me. Anyway all I want to share with our fellow country men and women is this...Lets unite against evil. Lets unite against uncertainty. Lets unite against suspicion. Lets unite against intolerance. Lets unite against external and internal aggression. Lets unite against absolute power where hate precedes justice.
Freedom Newspaper: Thanks Mr. Sey for granting us this interview.
Essa Sey:Thank you Mr Mbai (my Goro-laughter). Say hi to Cherno Mbai(your baby). The same to his mother and sister Awa Mbai.
I have also seen that your sister was arrested today. My prayers are going to her Ms Kumba Mbai.
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I am seriously disturbed by the latest revelations directed by Essa Sey and many others who have served in Jammehs administrations.No one should not trust the soliders who were part and parcel of the APRC government.They are all the same people.All of them had abuse Gambians on a daily and consistant basis.Essa Sey is known today because of yaya jammeh.He should not be a traitor.Am so dissappointed Mr Mbai for the kind of question you asked Mr Sey.Mr Sey was involved in a visa fraud and so many corruptions at the time of his tenue as ambassador in Washington.Is not even fair for this thugs(soldiers) to be granted assylum in this country.They should all go home to face Gambian justice. Am not proud of no solider.If they were given the opportunity to head our country, they will do worse than Yaya Jammeh.So if your were a solider,stop the blame game.