The Observer (Kampala)
6 March 2008
interview
APOLLO MAKUBUYA is the ATTORNEY GENERAL of Buganda. He was part of the Buganda team that held talks with government on federo in 2004 and more recently, he has been vocal in his opposition to the land bill, now before Parliament. He told EDRIS KIGGUNDU why failure by government to meet Buganda's demands could lead to instability.
Now that the amendments to the Land Act, which Buganda has consistently opposed, were finally tabled in Parliament, what is the next course of action for Buganda?
We are opposed to the spirit in which it has been presented. We believe that the bill is unnecessary because there are sufficient laws that address the illegal eviction of tenants. We are of the view that the bill is rushed without due consultation with all the stakeholders and in spite of all the protestations we have had with a large section of Ugandans, not just Mengo but also places such as Teso, Acholi, Lango, Karamoja and Busoga. Even the religious leaders called for more consultation. It is apparent that there is a problem with the law.
Are you going to face the legal committee to present your proposals?
We will go there to show that the bill should not be passed at all. But are you hopeful that Buganda's position will eventually be taken into account because you already sound like someone resigned to the fact that the bill is likely to be passed in this current state?
We have been very clear from the beginning and we are ready to show that in spite of the changes that government has made to the bill, it remains bad, it remains unfair and hence unacceptable.
So what is the minimum expectation of Buganda regarding the bill?
What we want is for government to carry out more consultations, it should undertake a comprehensive review of laws pertaining to land in Uganda. It should come up with a national land policy. In the present case government should rely on the current laws to address the problem of illegal eviction because they are sufficient.
The bill contains so many proposals, what does Buganda consider to be the most contentious proposal?
All of them are contentious. There are about four provisions they are seeking to amend but right from section one to four, they are all problematic. They are badly drafted.
One of the justifications for the new law, government says, is to address the imbalance in land ownership. There are few people owning big chunks of land yet many poor people even do not legally own an inch of land?
The bill cannot achieve this. You cannot steal from Paul to give John. This does not work. The issues affecting the land sector require deeper reflection; they require deeper review, the kind that would inform a national policy on land. But the way government has gone about it, for us it's putting the cart before the horse.
About how long should these processes take?
I think as long as it takes so that consensus is reached. This law was hurriedly passed in 1998. At that time we opposed it but government did not listen to us. Then they tried to amend it in 2004, it has not worked.
The central government also says Mengo is not telling the truth about the bill. That in fact the bill is good. What is your reaction?
We have come up with a ten-point guide about the bill. The government has not come out to say you are wrong on point one or two or ten. Instead they have just been saying that Mengo has been overtaken by other political considerations but this is beside the point. The point is that we have grievances on substances of the bill.
Is Mengo pro-opposition?
This is taking us away from the issue. At Mengo we have all actors. People with different political affiliations. But the most important thing is that the Baganda are concerned about their land because it is central. If government says Mengo is being dominated by the opposition, why doesn't it use its political machinery and influence Mengo?
Recently there were reports that government had given Kabaka Shs 7 billion. May be this is the beginning?
This is something I do not know about although it has nothing to do with the land question.
Are you satisfied with the performance of the committee set up by Mengo to sensitise people about this law?
Their major theme appears to be that 'land is going' without delving deeper into the real issues.
I think it has done a good job. One of the reasons that this bill is widely known is the committee's work. The statement 'land is going' is a valid statement. You see when we talk about land going, we are talking about control, and we are talking about ownership. We are saying in respect to our communal land as Baganda, we are losing what is rightfully ours. It might be going through administrative and legal measures but we are losing control and ownership. And this bill if passed, it is going to further entrench this situation.
The federo quest appears to have been overtaken by the land bill debate. Are you still pursuing it?
The public has been more concerned about the issue of land but federo is very much on the agenda. The new Katikkiro (Eng. J.B. Walusimbi) has put federo top-most of his agenda. The sooner these issues are tabled and frankly discussed the sooner Uganda will be stable, free and a fully democratic country.
Are you saying if Buganda is not given federo, there will be instability?
Absolutely. We might have this semblance of peace and quiet but the reality in many people's hearts is that there is insecurity; there is fear and apprehension about the future. There is restlessness, especially in Buganda. So long as this restlessness continues, something very small can trigger undue conflict.
President Museveni says this time he wants to speak to the Kabaka directly not with a delegation as it happened in 2004.
It is the same President who says the Kabaka should not be involved in politics. Why does he now want to drag him into the talks?
Because the last time he consulted with a delegation of which you were part, he says you agreed on the regional tier only to change your minds later!
The truth is that the regional tier deal was a product of negotiations but we got to a point where all our aspirations could not be met. It was a deal that did not meet the expectations of the people of Buganda. That is why some people refer to it as Nyama ntono (little meat).
You seem to suggest the President told lies.
I know who is telling the truth. We did not agree upon some issues about the regional tier because they appeared imposed on Buganda. But if they are resolved amicably we are willing to start again and pursue the talks.
What are those issues?
One of them was election of the Katikkiro which we oppose. The other one was the proposed take-over of regional governments in special circumstances by the central government.
How are you going to hold fruitful consultations with the government if people like Local Government minister, Kahinda Otafiire say Mengo's cabinet is illegal because it was not appointed under a regional tier system?
I think Hon. Otafiire is not being honest. He might not like the idea (Mengo cabinet) but the fact is we have a government in Mengo pursuant to Article 246 of the Constitution, which recognises traditional institutions. Since Otafiire likes referring to ducks very much, if something moves like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. So we are very legitimate.
Are you hopeful that this government will meet all Buganda's demands, such as federo and return of its properties?
If this government is to be taken seriously in terms of human rights and the rule of law, and democracy, it has no other choice but to return these assets. They are ours and secondly the constitution provides for right to property. This government has returned assets to Asians. So if it respects rule of law, it has no choice and if it doesn't do so today we will continue agitating for them.
Last word?
Buganda, like any part of Uganda, should benefit from good governance that respects its traditions. The land bill in its current form is unacceptable. Government should take off time and reflect on Buganda's demands. Return all properties that were stolen and consider this issue of federation.
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