Frank Nyakairu
20 April 2008
interview
Dr James Obita, holder of a doctorate in industrial chemistry, is now the new leader of the Lord's Resistance Army delegation to the Juba talks. Dr Riek Machar is the vice-president of South Sudan. He is also the chief mediator of the Juba peace process. Frank Nyakairu spoke to both men in Nabanga, South Sudan, on April 14. Excerpts:-
Dr James Obita
The world held its breath The world held its breath on April 10 expecting you to deliver peace, what went wrong?
If I am reading everything correctly; there was a total breakdown of communication between the head of the LRA peace delegation and Joseph Kony and his fighters. On one hand [Dr David] Matsanga-Nyekorach made everyone, including us, to believe that April 10 was the date for signing but Gen. Kony, on the other side, knew on that day he would meet cultural and religious leaders from northern Uganda. When he saw Ri-Kwangba [the venue prepared for the signing ceremony on the Sudan-DR Congo border] being swamped by hundreds of people, including diplomats and the mediation team, he began to think that he is being pressured into signing the agreement.
So his concerns about Mato Oput and the Special Division of the High Court were mere scapegoats?
No, those were issues he wanted clarified.
But, Dr Obita, you flew to Ri-Kwangba two times purportedly to consult Kony.
We met and talked to Kony for some time. But because we had a leader, Matsanga, we agreed that he communicates with the General and passes on the information to avoid conflicting communication. I am not very sure when Matsanga lost direct communication with Kony.
There is information that Kony last spoke to the mediator when he confessed late last year to killing his deputy Vincent Otti.
We hear so. But it is difficult to know what exactly went wrong between Kony and the mediator. I am sure the two know that well.
How did you take the murder of Otti in October last year?
There is no dispute that the murder of Otti was so devastating and disturbing to some of us who knew him well. He was instrumental in co-ordinating the fighters in the bush and the rest of the world. He made accessing Kony very easy and handled issues very fast as opposed to now. When he was killed LRA was never the same.
There is information there is a continuing purge in the LRA.
For now, I do not know what is true and what is not.
What do you make of Joseph Kony?
I think he is a very intelligent and unpredictable man. He has his one way of leadership which makes him different.
There is that story about you surviving execution on Kony's orders; tell us more.
I have been Kony's foreign secretary for years. At the time I was co-ordinating communication between President Museveni and Kony. I held so many meetings with Ugandan minister Amama Mbabazi and David Pulkol, then heading the External Security Organisation. We had joint meetings with members of the Community of Sant'Egidio and the subject matter was mainly the abducted Aboke girls. I was for the idea that the LRA releases all of them. When I went to Jabilen [in South Sudan], I found out that most of them were mothers, others had died and Kony was also deceived that I had received $200,000 from President Museveni.
He accused me of betraying him and said he was going to kill me. He told me to say my last prayers - but changed his mind. He freed me but Khartoum forces held me for three more months. I walked several dozen kilometres from Jabilen to Juba and quit the LRA.
How did you two get together again?
I had given up on this LRA thing. But in December 2006 he called me and said he wanted me to join his delegation. I thought about it for some time and for the sake of peace in northern Uganda I decided to accept. I came back and the first time we met again he apologised and said that by executing me he [would have] made the biggest mistake of his life.
Now, you seem at odds with him again.
In my heart of hearts, I know that the General has been receiving very negative reports about the delegation. There are very many people in the Diaspora who believe that we did not negotiate a good agreement. Some went as far as saying that the delegation was planning to sell Kony off, have him arrested. These people I cannot name in the Diaspora caused a lot of damage to the peace process and to us. And they should all know that they have just signed a death warrant for Kony himself and many other people in northern Uganda.
Considering that Matsanga received loads of money from the Uganda government without Kony's approval, don't you think that Kony is right?
Matsanga can answer that best. He is the one who received money and a letter from President Museveni.
We hear Kony wants financial guarantees.
I think it would be wrong not to expect Kony to want assurance about his financial future. This has been done in Uganda with other former rebels like Gen. Ali Bamuze. I know he wants both personal financial and security guarantees but I don't know how much he wants. And even if I did, those are private negotiations.
What next?
We have done our best as the delegation. This is one of the best agreements ever negotiated in Uganda's history. I really think it is important to recognise that. We have got a good agreement in place and have also created room for future changes. We have created a Joint Liaison Group which will not only implement the agreement but also look out for loopholes and fix them. And the Oversight Committee comprised of heads of state. Technically, our work is done and the delegation can now cease to exist. I think we have done our best and we will always be proud of that.
Dr Riek Machar
You have mediated this process through the hardest of times, what has gone wrong?
Gen. Joseph Kony did not appear on April 10 because he said he wants further briefing on some issues. I also had a message from him through his officer on the Cessation of Hostilities [Monitoring] Team (CHMT), Col. Michael Anywar.
Re-affirming his commitment to the talks, he said he will still respect the Cessation of Hostilities Agreement [which expired on April 15]. He wants to clearly understand Mato Oput (the traditional Acholi justice system) and its impact on the International Criminal Court [arrest warrants] and the Special Division of the Uganda High Court as per the agreement.
He would also want to understand clearly the Disarmament, Demobilisation and Re-integration process. If you look carefully, these are personal security issues to do with his colleagues on the High Command. I have discussed all this with MPs, leaders and my team and we are now planning for that meeting. The meeting will take place on May 1. I have communicated that through his officer at the CHMT and his officers at Ri-Kwangba who will meet me shortly. We continue to do everything we can to make sure that Kony signs this agreement and President Museveni follows and we go to the implementation [stage].
Are these the real reasons Kony failed to sign because at some point everything seemed to be based on fabrication by his delegation?
I am aware that the delegation did not tell the truth at some point. For instance, when they flew to Ri-Kwangba twice, I know they did not meet Kony but met a team of senior members of the LRA.
There have been credible reports that the LRA was moving to Central African Republic and continues to abduct children.
I am not the best person to explain this; it is Joseph [Kony] who should be explaining why his troops went to Central African Republic. For instance, in the last three months, about 55 youth - 30 boys and 25 girls - are missing from this particular [South Sudanese] state of West Equatoria from Tumbura, Ezo and Yambio. I wonder why they continue to abduct children from Congo, CAR and Sudan, which is mediating and continue to say they are committed to peace.
There is the thinking that the murder of Vincent Otti continues to be an impeding factor.
Yes, I share the same thinking. Otti was instrumental in this peace process. It was very unfortunate because Otti was easily accessible as a go-between. But when he was murdered the LRA moved very fast to contain it. It created a big vacuum which still exists. But LRA as an organisation, they tried to contain it. Kony immediately appointed a new negotiator, David Matsanga, to continue with the process.
Has the subsequent infighting affected the peace process?
I don't know.
Is it true that Kony is angry that the agreement makes no mention of any financial compensation?
I only know of personal guarantees related to his security relocations and protection. I have not heard any issues on financial demands
What has to be done to save the peace process?
I think adequate preparations for Joseph Kony to sign were not met. He had initially requested a meeting with the elders and me but that did not happen. Let us do what he has asked for and see what happens. We have declared the negotiations complete and what remains is for President Museveni and Kony to sign. We call on the donor [community] to continue supporting this most important part of the agreement to ensure that peace returns to northern Uganda.
How was your experience as a mediator?
I think it was a difficult peace process. Especially when you have two parties and one has its leaders indicted by the International Criminal Court. Those indictments continue to be a stumbling block but we hope the Final Peace Agreement will give the LRA leaders confidence to make sure that the agreement is implemented.
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