4 May 2008
Lagos — It was fun talking with, Nigerian born International designer, Fred Eboka, who is positively representing Nigeria in South Africa.
Owner and designer of Eboka Design Studio, Johannesburg, his works are characterized by ethnicity and a fusion of contemporary look, that portrays true African in style and feel.
Eboka, who moved to South Africa in 1982, launched his first design studio in Chestnut Hill in Philadelphia, where he dressed high society ladies and celebrities.
He has dressed American Grammy nominees, South African music awards winners and many international celebrities and has also represented South Africa in international fashion shows. I caught up with him at his design studio, at the Hyatt hotel in Johannesburg South Africa, where he opened up on the passion for his job, fears for African designers, His views about Nigeria and life generally.
What is it like doing business in South Africa Well for me, I have been lucky. I came in 1992, but my business started from the states in Chess north, Philadelphia. I went to school in the states and I started my practice there.
When I moved down here there were not many black people in the fashion industry. So we had to pioneer many things and educate people about them; The fact that there is something called African beauty, there is something called African fashion it was pretty difficult but, luckily now there is a strong recognition for that. So far, I can't complain.
How would you compare business situations in South Africa to what we have in Nigeria?
Business rules in Nigeria is so difficult for people who will want to work in Nigeria. The business rule in Nigeria is that people do not understand what time is.
Nigerians do not evaluate time with money whereas, in many places in the world where I have been, time is evaluated with money. You have to be able to time a project or whatever you do, even when you are enjoying yourself its not an endless thing, you must time yourself, but the rule in Nigeria is so, and that is why probably people do not deliver their projects in time because time is not monitored. You go to somebody's office and they say you should come by 11am and when you go there you meet about twenty people waiting to see the same person, its so dehumanizing to wait for people endlessly.
For me, I can not do that, not for any money but, if I have to wait for people, 15 minutes is enough, for any amount of money, if I have waited for 15-30 minutes I am ready to go then its not meant for me and that has been my experience. Another thing is that there is no commitment. People don't stick with commitment, when they say they are going to do this, the variability changes.
When they say am doing this, when you come back somewhere along the line it might change and also people don't sign things here, they don't do the dotted line thing. There is no record for wasting your time.
I want to do things in Nigeria, I was invited for shows many times, but it never worked out. Initially when they call you, they will tell you they will pay for your ticket, hotel, this and that, but at the end of everything they Do not fulfill the agreement. I wouldn't want to mention any name.
When I was invited for a show, I gave them what and what I will be needing, the kind of hotel I will like to stay, my air ticket etc, and they said no problem that I should come and lodge myself in any hotel and when I'm leaving they are going to pay me back, so I went ahead to spend my money on the things I will be needing for the show, buying fabrics and putting them together.
After everything they really frustrated me and another incident similar to this happened. I don't want to sound as if things are done so perfectly elsewhere but, I must say its frustrating do things in Nigeria.
Does that mean that there is no hope of you coming to Nigeria to do a show or take part in any?
I am always willing and ready to come to Nigeria to do a show even when invited. One of my biggest fantasy is to do a show in Nigeria, unfortunately, it just has not happened.
But, Lexy organizes the Nigerian fashion show yearly and you are close to him, that should serve as a good platform, don't you think?
Yeah, I'm close to him, but one of the reason why I have not done his show is not so much of organizational problem, its because his show is also very close to the South African Fashion Week. We have the Capetown Fashion Week, and the Jbourge Fashion Week so by the time I finish in Capetown, he wants me to come to Nigeria, and the next week I am doing Jbourge so there is no way I'll be able to manage it. Lexy is one of the few people I respect the way they do things, he is very thorough so far, and I am still hoping that I will have the opportunity of working with him soon.
What about setting up in Nigeria, are you thinking of doing that?
Yeah, I am thinking seriously about setting up in Nigeria but, again that involves a lot of capital and secondly, I don't want to go and set up when I have not had the feel of the place. I want to do shows there, I want people to actually know what I do, my work and know me properly before I can set up. I don't just want to go, rent a shop and set up. I like things to be properly.
How do you intend to get a feel of the place when you do not stay there?
I have been going to Nigeria, last year, I was going every two weeks because I was doing a project for MTN which I'm not suppose to talk about until it comes on live on Television. It's a very big project, its one of the biggest project MTN is doing and I am involved in many ways, its going to be fantastic. So, during that time I was going to Nigeria all the time.
I actually had a first time experience. I think Nigeria needs a lot of true professionals, everybody is saying they know what they are doing, but when you look at the trends and details, you'll see that they do not really know it.
I am not trying to put anybody down. Even the project I was doing in Nigeria you find out that the smallest thing that you expect someone to know about, they do not know. When they say yes, they are saying yes to something else, So ultimately, I had to bring a whole lot of things from here.
Working there was very difficult, because when I say I want this look and feel, people do not even understand what I mean by that. Things are not properly done, they don't bring in real professionals to help do things. I can do a lot of visual things in Nigeria but the system just do not help at all.
You look at the environment here(South Africa), the look and feel is stable, it's a contemporary with the sense of African feel, but very global and you can see it in the way things are put together, and these are not things that you assume you know because they are not easy.
It requires a lot of knowledge to carry with you but the thing in Nigeria is that someone will just come and say i know it, I have been doing this for the past twenty years and they really do not know what they are doing.
When you come in and you say look this is how much I want to be paid and they are shocked, that this that we have been doing for twenty years we can charge you ten percent for this. We Nigerians have not learnt how to appreciate professionalism, we have only learnt how to recognize money and there is a conflict between money and professionalism.
If Mr A is a rich man, people respect him but, if you say this man is a very smart man who can do this and that, they wont respect him, if he is not driving the best car or live in best house. But in most societies there is a strong recognition for professionals and unless Nigeria starts respecting what professionals can do, our society can not improve. Societies are improved by thinkers, good professionals not by people who just have money no matter how they do things.
Of all the projects that you have done so far, which of them gave you the most satisfaction?
I will tell you, the project that I just did in Nigeria is giving me a lot of satisfaction. Unfortunately, I can not talk about it until its out on the television which is what they say.
I have been outside Nigeria for a long time and anybody that has been outside Nigeria the way I have, will certainly tell you they miss home. No matter what you have done, you need recognition from home, it says how good you are and how you have grown in whatever you do. There was one project I did for MTN sometime ago which is the MTN game show, all the clothes they used in it I made them and it was a fantastic show.
How will you describe your style, the kinds of clothes you make?
My clothes evolves. It is very global, it is characterized by ethnicity, its very ethnic. It is a fusion of many tribal look and contemporary look and luckily that is were fashion is now these days..
Fashion has been dominated by the influence of the East. But again, it depends on the trend that is in vogue. For instance, when I went to Japan for a show, my design was influenced by elements from Japan, so every now and then, it depends on the trend. I try to fuse one thing with the other but, generally its got a very ethnic feel.
Have you done a show in South Africa outside the South African Fashion week?
I have done a lot of shows in South Africa. I used to be involved with the Good Hope designer collection. Unlike these days where every Tom, Dick and Harry's showcases on fashion week, those days, you had to go through a screening that will look at your work, the quality and all. The Good hope designers collection was done by top twelve designers in South Africa and I was one of them then and the only black too
. Sometimes I am very busy and I do not have time for shows, like the Jo'burge fashion week which I was unable to do. But I intend to do the Summer fashion week coming up around July and August.
Do you sew, or you just design?
Illustration, I do illustrations and I give design direction. Bow do you get your inspiration, when you put pen to paper to design?
Just as I am looking at you now, looking at your hair, the texture, the flowers in front of me, all that ignites certain things. Sometimes I could say my whole range will be influenced by aquatic colors, then, I will start researching on different types and colors of fish.
Then, I will translate them into fabric, into textures, then I will create a line like that. I can be inspired by buildings like, if I travel to a place and I see beautiful buildings, somehow I want to bring them into the clothing, maybe by way of embroidery or beading or the silhouette. So a range of things inspire me.
Why did you decide that it must be fashion?
Some weeks back, I was in the CMBC Africa and they asked me the same question and I said to them, I have to think about this because I really don't know. I grew up and I started drawing, and I drew a lot of clothes. I have two sisters and I drew for them.
Back in Nigeria?
Yes, background is in Nigeria. Actually, I had the best of training in the Yaba College of Technology. So, I started making clothes before I went to study in Yaba College of Tech, where I studied fashion. Ironically, when I finished doing fashion there, I taught for a while and worked with an advertising agency, then I decided I wanted to go and study fashion more.
So, I went to the US, to Philadelphia University to do Fashion and Textile. After a while, I got bored and I decided to do Visual Communication may be it's a little bit challenging, so I went to another university in Philadelphia as well where I did visual communication. I had a science degree. When I graduated, I worked with some people before starting up my studio in Chess north Hill in Philadelphia.
What is the attraction for fashion design?
The attraction is incredible. The most beautiful thing. How do I put it? Its so spiritual. The most beautiful thing is a woman's body. If you want to understand nature in its perfect stage, you have to look at the woman's body, the contour, and the whole essence of a woman's body is so amazing, especially African women.
And that is even important to me because for a long time African women are looked upon as if they are not beautiful, whereas they are the most beautiful that nature has ever created , that is one of the attraction and even more so fashion allows you, if you are an artist fashion is very quick it allows you to express quicker, because clothes comes and goes very quicker than magazines than buildings. Everything follows trend, fashion, interior, architecture. Of all of these fashion moves really fast and I love the pace.
What is it you love about what you do?
Its an amazing thing in a way that you could just wake up and create. I cant imagine being a doctor, an accountant, it must be straight forward and boring. For this, you just wake up and your brain just reconnects something and it comes to life. It's the most amazing thing, when I look at collections on the runway, sometimes
I feel like crying, not because it the most wonderful thing, but because wherever this energy comes from, whoever God is, whatever the calling, its so powerful that it can take over you and you can create so much, and you can give.
It's all about giving , when you look at beautiful clothes, the emotions are incredible and you need to see women and people react to clothes, its amazing, it can almost heal her (laughs) The only problem is the business side of it, because you have to keep your record, your clients etc, but in terms of the creative side, my God, its like you are in heaven all the time.
What are the challenges you face as a designer working in South Africa?
I think all designers in Africa face the same challenge. The challenge is continental in the sense that, because Africa has not come off age, Africans do not recognize the importance of art. They do not realize that art is the beginning of everything, they do not invest in it, they do not respect it and anything you do not put a lot of value on, does not develop.
Secondly and most importantly, Africa doesn't know itself, we feel inferior about ourselves. You look at your Nollywood movies, they wear, Nikki and Reebok, how can they be wearing such things when they are not paid for it. They should be wearing things with Nigeria on them, to use it to promote Nigeria and Africa.
It is so laughable and disgusting. Even in America, when they do a movie if Coca-Cola has to show in it you know they are paying millions of dollars to be represented in that movie. Our people wear British flag, American flag, I feel like crying because the level of ignorance is unbelievable. When you have a society that does not recognize itself, how can it recognize their own work.
So you ask me the challenges they face, I would say the amount of recognition we give to foreign things and the lack of recognition we give to our own things, then you start to understand the humongous problems and challenges that creative people face in Africa.
Our insecurity is killing us, because the reason why we buy French and Italian products is because the products have already been recognized in their own country, they have lifted it so high that by the time it gets to us, because we are inferior about ourselves, we think we have to have that before we can be important. That is why you can never see me wearing anything with foreign label on me, except somebody is paying me to do that.
What has been your major point of reference?
One of them is Mr. Ogbweki, he was my teacher in Yaba College of Technology. I am sure a lot of people must have forgotten about him but, he was an incredible designer. He was away ahead of his time, we call him Tony Jones then.
When I took his classes, I did not know how mightyful he was, but by the time I traveled out, I realized the importance of his teachings and I have more recorgnition for him now. He is very good. Then I like Omosteve in Senegal. I think he is a good developmental designer, he does very great work. I like Christian Lakwa because for me, he is more than a designer, he is an artiste and it reflects in his work and because I am an artiste as well I can relate to his creative energy.
And many other ones. There are many Nigeria designers that I have seen and I like their work. such as Tiffany Amber. I like her collections that I saw at the Palms, the softness of the fabrics, the sensitivity and the way she put her collection together, it makes sense.
Its got a lot of femininity and very sensual. I could not believe it was done in Nigeria. But then Nigerian designers are very good I must tell you. I have seen such shirts made in Nigeria and I thought they are incredible. Nigeria has a lot of talented people, its that the environment doesn't allow them to excel, when I look at their work and the environment, I say these people are super genius.
Is there anything you miss about Nigeria?
Yeah, Nigerians are wonderful people. For me, Nigerians are the most wonderful people in the world that I have ever seen.
There are no people like Nigerians in the world. Our people are the best human beings you can ever be with, they are very hospitable, very cultured etc. You can always relate to some one and I hope our people don't change. Even my wife now goes to Nigeria more often than me because of the feelings she gets whenever she is there.
When she is gong to the market, people just laugh and that is it. That is why there no suicide cases in Nigeria. but here it is all man for himself. Our people are very communal especially our women, they are so hardworking.
I have never seen anywhere in the world where a woman will carry a baby on her back, carry something on her head and holding a bucket on the hand and is walking around. I hope our leaders do not allow that to continue because in that kind of society, it shows that the men who are the men do not respect their women, and it makers me sad because they are my sisters, my aunts, mummy etc, and all these shows the value we place on them.
What is your philosophy about the arts?
My philosophy towards arts is, art is an expression of inner energy and that is why you cannot joke with art. The western world their evolution came from art.
My wife, mine is different because I met her in the states. It's not like most South African women. I actually brought her to South Africa because we were going to Nigeria and I called home that am coming back and they said I should not, that I should just come and visit first which was in 1991 during Babangida's regime
. Nobody will want to come home during that period. I came to Nigeria, I stayed a month, trying to see if I could stay more. I needed no one to advise me anymore. But now, I don't mind living in Nigeria because it's wonderful.
They just need to clean up the streets but, I still have my opinion about the "Ogas" but things will change. Now, my wife and I are so much in love with Nigeria and we are loving it all the way. It's bobbling, I went to night clubs in Nigeria and I just sat down and said woo woo.
Lastly, what advise do you have for young people who look up to you?
Does anybody look up to me? Laughter .....They should work hard, and work hard. They should not be as crazy as I am otherwise they would not make money,. They will just end up fighting everybody.
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