Mugumo Munene
4 July 2008
interview
Nairobi — United States Ambassador Michael Ranneberger spoke to MUGUMO MUNENE on a wide range of issues as his country celebrates its 203rd independence day today. Excerpt:
NATION: July 4 is your independence day. What's your message to Kenyans on this important mark in your country's history?
RANNEBERGER: It's good to talk to you on the eve of our independence celebrations. Tomorrow, we will be celebrating the 203rd anniversary of US independence and I think it's really an important time to reflect on not only American history but also the relationship between the US and Kenya.
It goes back many decades. It's a very strong relationship and it's one of the largest in the developing world. It's founded on the friendship between the two countries but also on shared democratic values. Our own experience is relevant to what happened recently in Kenya.
I have pointed out that all democratic countries inevitably experience real conflict when fundamental issues have not been resolved. In our own experience, we fought the civil war. But 100 years afterwards in the 1960s, we had tremendous violence in American cities so much so that the US military had to be called out to restore order.
That reflected the fact that the grievances of the black American population had never been adequately addressed in 100 years. Out of that crisis, we focused again on issues of civil rights and we emerged a stronger society and a stronger country. That is the challenge that Kenya faces.
I'm quite confident that Kenya will emerge a stronger democracy if it tackles the institutional reforms that are necessary. The Government has pledged to carry out electoral reform, constitutional reform and land reform and these are key in addressing the underlying grievances that led to the violence earlier this year.
As a great friend and partner of Kenya, the US will stand with Kenya and support these efforts.
We just recently invited Prime Minister Raila Odinga to the US. He met the Secretary of State, the National Security Advisor and all sorts of other people. The purpose of that visit was to demonstrate US support for this coalition government and to provide some additional assistance.
We signed the Open Skies Agreement as a step towards direct flights, we announced a Peace Corps programme and we announced that we have sent a request to Congress for an additional US$75 million for Kenya.
We are confident, even bullish, about Kenya's future and we look forward to help this coalition deliver results for the Kenya people.
NATION: Your government was instrumental in the striking of the grand coalition deal. What has been your reading of the way the coalition partners are working?
RANNEBERGER: I think it's working extremely well. It has surprised a number of the sceptics. There are always so many people around who want to see the glass as half empty.
But I think it's important to see the glass as more than half full. President Kibaki and PM Odinga were rivals. But they've worked together in the past. They respect each other. What I have seen in the last two months is that these two men are working to make the coalition government successful.
They are meeting at least once a week to coordinate between them on their actions and duties. The PM has formed sub-groups within Cabinet to deal with key issues. President Kibaki has been very supportive of the PM's role to coordinate and supervise the functions of Government and when PM Odinga went to the US he went out of his way to praise President Kibaki.
So I think these two men are sending the right signals. Of course certain members of their teams are not happy with what's going on, but they are taking instructions from the top.
It's too early to see results but what we are seeing is coordination and planning and a joint agenda. I think that one reason why these two men and these two parties can work together is that there aren't really any ideological differences. They both want to expand education, social services, grow the economy. They have very similar goals. We are really impressed. That bodes very well for the future.
NATION: Part of the deal was that they would tackle institutional reforms to address underlying issues. Now that you supported the coalition from inception, are you happy with the progress?
RANNEBERGER: First of all, Kenya suffered a profound crisis and I think that both leaders were in denial about what was going on. But I think that both leaders were surprised by the extent to which the Kenyan people spoke out.
It basically said get your act together and save this country. It's to the enormous credit of President Kibaki and PM Odinga that these two men did set their personal interests aside and made hard compromises and both had to overrule their teams. They deserve enormous credit in our view.
The US was able to work with Kofi Annan to help to bring about the political accord and support what the Kenyan people were saying. I'm pleased we were able to do that.
We have made it clear that the future of our relationship is very much tied to results. We are expecting the coalition government to move ahead with reforms. These will take time but already the constitutional review Bill has been introduced in Parliament.
The Kriegler commission is moving ahead, there was an effort to set up a truth and reconciliation commission, land reforms some initial seminars and studies have been done. So, I think we have seen some fairly significant steps in the first days and we have told the coalition government that we are prepared to give support if they want it for the institutional reform process.
NATION: Both leaders have repeatedly spoken of their commitment to the fight against corruption. From where you sit, how do you think they are handling the problem?
RANNEBERGER: I think it's important that the absolute top priority is institutional reform, and frankly, reforms of the Judiciary, reform of institutions that deal with the problem of corruption.
I think the fact there is intense focus on the Grand Regency sale issue, for example, is a good sign of greater transparency. This kind of debate and focus might not have happened previously.
I don't want to comment on the Grand Regency issue to any degree but I think that it's positive that there is this very open discussion in the media and now within the Cabinet and the Government seems to be focusing on it to see what happened and to take appropriate steps to deal with it.
I think that's a good sign. But obviously, there is a very large agenda to fight corruption that needs to be addressed. We will continue to press on those issues.
NATION: Outstanding issues from the post-election crisis include the return of displaced people and whether those arrested over the violence should be let free. You were involved in this from the start, what's your view?
RANNEBERGER: One is the problem of violence and how people are held accountable under the rule of law. The second is the return of people to their homes who were innocently affected by this.
On the violence there is a commission to look into what happened and there's been a lot of debate about amnesty and all that. It's important for the Kenya people to listen to what the two leaders have said, which is the same thing; that the rule of law needs to be followed. But what that means is that the rule of law has certain procedures.
At the same time, it is important that not only civilians be held accountable, but members of the security forces who might have used excessive force also need to be held accountable so that there will be no impunity.
No one has ruled out applying amnesty in certain cases depending on what the results are of the rule of law. But the point that both men have made is that you cannot pre-emptively amnesty people.
I think once again there is a temptation to focus on the half empty. In this case, there is no fundamental division at the top. We will be following very closely and it is important that people be held accountable.
With respect to Mt Elgon, we have a very high respect for the Kenyan armed forces. They have a really tremendous record in international peacekeeping. They played a key role in the crisis. We have very high respect and we are actually expanding our engagement with the Kenya military in terms of training and equipment. But it is important that when there are allegations of abuse that they be investigated.
Whether it's the police or the military or whatever branch of the security forces, they should be investigated and if anyone committed abuses they should be held accountable. By so doing the armed forces and the police will actually be more credible. Just like in corruption, the key is transparency.
In terms of IDPs, we have been the largest supporter of humanitarian assistance. We've assisted in the camps and the return of people back to their homes through resettlement packages.
What we have said is that the resettlement must be voluntary. There also needs to be extensive efforts of reconciliation so that when these people go back they go back in conditions of safety. So the US is working with a number of grassroots organisations to promote dialogue and reconciliation.
I do think that progress is being made. It's going to take time to heal all the wounds but I think progress is being made.
NATION: What lessons do you think that Kenyans can draw from your own presidential election campaigns, which they are of course watching very closely?
RANNEBERGER: We have made it clear that the problems that occurred in 1992, 1997 and to a lesser extent 2002 and then 2007 are all to some degree centred on the land problem and it has never been adequately addressed.
The other issue is that more needs to be done on the problem of unemployed youths.
Thirdly, you have to fix the specific problems related to the electoral machinery. In our country when we had a problem in 2000, we went back and fixed that system - the so-called hanging shards - and Kenya needs to reform is electoral system.
Fourth is that people need to cherish unity by appreciating diversity. We have for the first time a Black American running for president and whether he wins or not, it means that we have made progress is respecting our diversity and voting on the basis of issues and not race.
And that's a lesson for Kenya because Kenya needs to overcome tribal politics. It's important that the elections in Kenya become more issue focused rather than tribally focused. Some progress has been made but a lot more needs to be done.
NATION: How is Kenya doing in the war on terror in your government's view?
RANNEBERGER: We have an effective partnership with Kenya in the war on terror. We appreciate what Kenya does. Kenya is fighting it because it's been hit on several occasions. We do cooperate, share information and the Kenyan Government has helped to stop attacks and to apprehend terrorists. We commend Kenya.
NATION: How is the anti-terrorism campaign in neighbouring Somalia going?
RANNEBERGER: Our policy in Somalia is to try and promote a democratic transition in 2009. That is what called for the Transitional Federal Government charter. In order to achieve that, we are helping to promote reconciliation among all Somalis and we are at the same time doing everything we can to combat terrorism in Somalia and to prevent terrorists from making Somalia a safe haven.
Both roles are complimentary and necessary. What's going on in Somalia is a difficult situation but progress is being made. It's been too slow but it's being made. We appreciate the role that Kenya has played and continues to play on regional issues.
NATION: What about Darfur to the North West?
RANNEBERGER: Darfur is a tragic case. It's a very complicated issue. But the government continues to offer support to the janjaweed militia against the local tribes, which support some of the anti-government guerillas. But it's not acceptable that the Sudanese government uses the militia to attack innocent civilians. We've made our stand very clear. That is why we supported the introduction of UN forces. We are calling for the introduction of UN forces in Somalia as well.
NATION: What, in your view, should happen in Zimbabwe given the latest developments?
RANNEBERGER: I want to commend the Kenya Government for having taken a very clear view on this. The recent summit of the African Union did result in statements calling for a unity government. What happened there, in our view, was not sufficient.
The US has indicated that it is going to be looking at what sanctions we can take to put additional pressure on Mugabe. President Mugabe is not a legitimately elected president. We regard the elections as a sham.
And I want to make this clear that there is absolutely no basis for comparing what happened in Kenya to what happened in Zimbabwe. It's a totally different situation. In Kenya there was a disputed election but Kenya never departed from the democratic path.
Zimbabwe has not had democratic elections for many years and there is absolutely no similarity whatsoever. Mugabe is a dictator in the worst sense of the term and that's our position.
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