Foreign & Commonwealth Office (London)
David Miliband
7 July 2008
press release
An interview with British Foreign Secretary David Miliband with BBC Radio 4's World at One. Miliband was in Johannesburg.
Let me ask you first of all if I may about this recurring of, of violence within Zimbabwe, do you think that Mugabe's forces are behind the recent attacks?
David Miliband: Good afternoon Martha. I think there's absolutely no question that the Mugabe forces are behind the attacks on innocent people in Zimbabwe. I went to the Central Methodist Church in Johannesburg yesterday where about two thousand Zimbabwean refugees are holed up. I met people whose brothers, mothers, fathers had all been either intimidated or in some cases killed, and this is a regime which is showing rampant disregard for anything like basic human rights or concern for people's security, in fact it's abusing its own population as a way of trying to hold on to power.
And that's why I think it's very important that whether we are leaders from the West or from Africa or anywhere else we unite at the UN this week with a, not just a very clear message, not just a very clear rhetoric but also clear actions that turn the suffering away from the people of Zimbabwe and on to the regime.
MK (Martha Kearney): Well the key player in this from Africa is South Africa how have your talks been going there? Do you think that South Africa is going to continue to oppose tougher sanctions at the UN?
DM: South Africa is certainly one important player on the Security Council. I was pleased on the 23rd June South Africa added its voice and its vote to the presidential statement issued from the UN that was absolutely clear in its condemnation of the tactics of the Mugabe regime. This week the test is about financial sanctions and travel sanctions and I very much hope that South Africa will join the international consensus. I'll be meeting the Foreign Minister later and again tomorrow and, of course, the Prime Minister will be seeing Thabo Mbeki in Japan.
I think that, and I've seen for myself, that this is a tragedy for South Africa. The idea that it's only the people of Zimbabwe who are suffering, they're of course suffering the most, but in addition to the refugees I met yesterday and, of course, there's a big burden on South Africa, about three million refugees here. If you go to the townships outside Johannesburg as I did to Alexandra Township and meet ordinary South Africans who are concerned about jobs and housing and healthcare, they're very worried about the influx of refugees. They're worried about what it's doing to their economy and that's why I think the issue is one for South Africa as well as for neighbouring Zimbabwe.
MK: But how convincing a broker can South Africa be, I mean, last weekend when Thabo Mbeki was attempting to broker talks Morgan Tsvangirai didn't want to meet him over the issue of whether the election was legitimate or not?
DM: We strongly support the idea that the African Union should add an African Union delegate to Mr Mugabe's, to Mr Mbeki's team so that there really is a drive for a transitional Government that respects the 29th March election. You see the really important thing to understand is that although the second round of the election was cancelled we do have the first round which showed us the democratic will of the people of Zimbabwe. They voted for change, the opposition has a majority in parliament and Mr Tsvangirai won the presidential election even though he didn't reach the fifty per cent threshold that would have negated the need for a second round.
So there is a start of a democratic mandate, that is the basis for a transitional government and I think that's the basis for progress in Zimbabwe from absolutely catastrophic conditions, economic and political, that currently pertain.
MK: Do you think that that transitional government could include Robert Mugabe as President as, as one of the possible settlements is mooting?
DM: I, I think it would be completely wrong for any broad based Government to have Robert Mugabe in control. We've been there before, since 1980, several times and I think it's, that's certainly not something that would be ...
MK: Not necessarily ...
DM: ... respecting the ...
MK: ... but not necessarily in control ...
DM: ... that wouldn't be ...
MK: ... sorry to interrupt, but how about as, as a titular President I mean, I know it sounds pretty ironic but, you know, as father of the country in some way?
DM: Well I, I'm glad you said father of the nation not me, I think most people will see the idea of Robert Mugabe as father of the Zimbabwean nation as some, in the face of the scenes of brutality that they've seen, as, as an unusual way to put it. I, I think that, and also you, the reference to a titular head I mean that dates back to the 1980 Lancaster House agreement where there was, where of course in origin Mr Mugabe was the Executive Prime Minister and Mr Canaan Banana was the titular President.
I think that we're all clear about the truth. We can't be in a situation where in fact Mr Mugabe's able to control things from behind the scenes. The details of any negotiation must be for Zimbabwean's above all for Mr Tsvangirai as the man who got the most votes in the presidential election. We are not going to interpose ourselves in detailed negotiations. What we can make absolutely clear is first our abhorrence of what is going on, second our determination to do something about it so that there is some misery for the people behind the violence rather than just those who are subject to it.
MK: And should there ...
DM: And thirdly and critically, sorry, thirdly just, it's important because people will be wondering how do they build their way of chaos, as the Prime Minister made clear in Tokyo we've got to be clear that there is going to be international support for a decent Government in Zimbabwe when it arrives to rebuild the country.
MK: And should part of that pressure on Zimbabwe come from British companies who are continuing to invest in Zimbabwe, you've got Anglo American investing two hundred million in a platinum mine?
DM: Well I think any gov, any company that's giving succour or support to individual members of the regime should, shouldn't do so and that's why it was right that the German company that was printing the bank notes pulled out. I think in terms of the employers in Zimbabwe we're not calling for a complete economic boycott of Zimbabwe on the grounds that the misery that the people are suffering is far enough.
So for now what we're saying is let's target the sanctions, whether they be Government or business, at the members of the regime. Let's ensure, make sure that they recognise the consequences of their actions. I think the, the people of Zimbabwe have suffered enough.
MK: So businesses shouldn't disinvest?
DM: We're not calling for a complete boycott at this stage no, we think it's important to draw a distinction between the interests of the people of Zimbabwe and the members of the regime. Any succour to the regime is to be condemned but we're not calling for a complete boycott of Zimbabwe.
MK: And just before I, I let you go, and apologies for the delay on the line which is making some of this quite difficult, but I wanted to ask you about Afghanistan, the car bomb attack today. People within the Karzai Government have been suggesting that perhaps the Pakistani intelligence services were at least complicit in this. Would that be your view too?
DM: I, I certainly wouldn't want to com, comment on any complicity in a terrible bomb that has cost many lives without proper evidence to do so. What I would say is that there was a bombing yesterday in Islamabad and it's clear that terrorism is something that threatens both the Afghan state and the Pakistani state. And it's also the case that there'll never be stability in Pakistan until there is stability in Afghanistan and vice versa, we've got to tackle this problem on both sides of the border, economically, politically and in security terms.
MK: David Miliband many thanks.
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Do all the other countries that have rejected the sham government think Zimbabwe is their colony? I dont think so. Just because Zim was a former colony, doesnt mean they need to accept the illegitamate government.
They should not then dictate who should be what and who should not in the probable government of national unity in Zimbabwe. They the british should not then pretend to be so deeply concerned about Zim affairs than any one else.
Buddy, maybe you spend too many hours looking at to the BBC or VOA channels. Or maybe you are a western diplomat. Or maybe you don't read much - even though you have the internet. Or you are just intellectually challenged.
Tell us this:
1) Was the USA government from 2000 to 2004 'illegitimate'? If not, then why? [Hint: Their country, their laws - foreigner, keep off!]
2) Is the current government dictated by the west in the west's client state of Kenya 'legitimate'? If so, then why? [Hint: The master speaketh, the master is right]
So, if you think of "legitimate" with regard to Zimbabwe, what do you have in mind - if anything?
If you still don't see the point go back to school and take civics lessons to learn what the word "legitimate" means - before you use it.
Good day everyone Mugabe was never a father to Zimbabweans he is in fact a result of a political compromise which was done at the Lancashire house conference. He was supported there into power to protect some economic interest of certain people ,at the expense of Nkomo and Zapu as this was seen as a more extreme party. Lets go back there and try to see what went wrong. You can never bury facts.
A view from the NExt President of the United States....
Statement of Senator Barack Obama on the crisis in Zimbabwe Chicago, IL | June 25, 2008
Chicago, IL - I am deeply disturbed by the recent events in Zimbabwe and condemn the actions of President Robert Mugabe in the strongest possible terms. The United States and the international community must be united, clear and unequivocal: the Government of Zimbabwe is illegitimate and lacks any credibility.
I welcome yesterday's United Nations Security Council statement condemning the violence sweeping Zimbabwe, and underscoring that the Zimbabwean government's campaign of repression and brutality has made it impossible for the June 27 elections to be free and fair. UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon is absolutely right when he says that run-off elections under these circumstances would lack any legitimacy.
Indeed, it is the result of the abrogated March 2008 elections that represents the genuine will of the Zimbabwean people. I have spoken with MDC Leader Morgan Tsvangirai to share my deep concern for the way his supporters are being targeted by the regime, and to express my admiration for his efforts to ensure that the will of the Zimbabwean people is finally respected.
The people of Zimbabwe have suffered far too long. They live in fear and struggle to survive, as opposition supporters and leaders, civil society activists, and ordinary citizens are subject to harassment, torture, and murder. The government-orchestrated economic catastrophe has wrought run-away inflation and food and fuel shortages. The regime's deliberate disruption of humanitarian operations has left the Zimbabwean people in utter despair. This crisis is affecting the entire Southern African region and mars the vision of a more just, prosperous, and stable continent to which African leaders are committed.
I am heartened by the growing chorus of African leaders supporting the civil and political rights of the Zimbabwean people. The Governments of Zambia, Botswana, Tanzania, Angola, Senegal, Kenya and South Africa's African National Congress (ANC), civil society leaders and trade unions have all denounced the Zimbabwean government's repression. But they must do much more to help prevent the crisis in Zimbabwe from spiraling out of control. In particular, the South African government and the ANC must recognize the need – and must call for – the kind of diplomatic action that is necessary to pressure the Zimbabwean government to stop its repressive behavior.
The United States should work with regional leaders and others to press for postponed elections conducted under a strong international monitoring presence and, to the extent possible, meaningful civil protection measures. If fresh elections prove impossible, regional leaders backed by the international community should pursue an enforceable, negotiated political transition in Zimbabwe that would end repressive rule and enable genuine democracy to take root. Finally, the United States must tighten our existing sanctions, just as the Southern African Development Community (SADC), the African Union (AU), and the UN should implement a carefully crafted regime of targeted sanctions against Zimbabwean officials who continue to thwart democracy and undermine the rule of law.
Jack, who made you an overseer of Zimbabwe or Afraka? Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Britain Rejects Mugabe Control of Unity Govt"
"Rejects"? Who wants to know what Britain thinks? Hey, English people, do you still think that Rhodesia is your colony?