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East Africa: Interview - 'Cluster Bombs Are an EA Regional Problem'

30 September 2008

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interview

Delegates representing forty five Africa governments spent two days in Kampala rallying for a united African front in the effort to stop the manufacture and use of cluster munitions like landmines on the continent. On the sidelines of the conference, Daily Monitor's Paul Amoru spoke to Mr Daniel Aghan, the Communication Officer in the Kenya office of Handicap International, an advocacy organisation against the use of cluster munitions: -

What is Kenya's experience with the use and effects of cluster bombs?

I will come back to the issue of whether Kenya has victims or not. But Kenya is surrounded by countries that have really suffered from cluster munitions. Look at Southern Sudan, which you must know that most of their liberation movements were in Kenya and Kenya has done a lot of work for them.

And it does not stop there; a lot of personnel who work in Southern Sudan either come from Uganda or Kenya. Again Somalia, which I count as a failed state, is our neighbour. Ethiopia is also contaminated. By contamination we mean that these are countries that have used cluster munitions. So, when you look at Kenya, it is standing very precariously given the fact that all our neighbours except Tanzania have had a history of using cluster munitions.

Is Kenya therefore at risk from cluster bombs?

Sure. What we are saying is that when it comes to inter-border movement, then we are talking about our own Kenyans being at risk. That is one.

Two, if all our neighbours are either victims, then it means we are not safe either. Think about what happened in Kenya in January this year [the post-election violence]. What we witnessed was just out of the ordinary, and that means that Kenya is also at risk of going to war, God forbid.

Also, if all your neighbours have cluster munitions and you don't, what would happen, because there might be aggression. If Ethiopia for example does not like the decision that you have made, then they might decide to hit you. That is why Kenya must support the rest of the world in abolishing these munitions.

Considering that Kenya's soil is relatively safer from contamination by cluster munitions compared to most of its neighbours, what role can Kenya play in the region at this point?

A critical look at the Convention [banning the use of cluster bombs in combat] says that when you agree to the ban, then you have even agreed to the issues of transit. It means that countries that use cluster bombs and are not part of the Convention will not use your country to transit these weapons.

And you know that Mombasa port is used by nearly every body in the region including Tanzania. Uganda uses it, Sudan...and I mean those are facts that can not be over stated. This is one area where Kenya will be helpful.

How close are the African governments to a common position on stopping the manufacture and use of cluster bombs on the continent? Is there hope they will all sign the convention in December?

One reason for our coming to Ugandan is that African governments are not too sure. The African governments are still wavering. They are giving the so call mixed signals. Of course you know Uncle Sam; the big brother supports all these guys who are making noise here, so that is also one fact that you as journalists should take interest in.

What happened with the Georgia /Russia war when cluster munitions were used on the mass? What we should be asking here [Kampala] is what are we doing about the causes of the war, what are we doing about the manufacturers [of these weapons]?

We are saying that in Africa, Egypt and South Africa are the manufacturers of cluster munitions. But they are very uncooperative, I don't thing Egypt is here, but these are the big brothers on the continent.

What are your own impressions about the way the Kenyan government has handled the issue of cluster munitions?

The Kenyan government is serious; they have attended all the meetings. They have showed all the commitment to sign the Oslo treaty in December. I have also been lobbying with the Ethiopian government, which has been very difficult. I think they have only attended one meeting.

But just ratifying is not enough. It comes down to implementation. By the way, Kenya has a dubious history of being even the first to sign these international Conventions , but then there is nothing else that they do.

When we talk about signing these Conventions on cluster bombs, you will remember that in 1995 we signed a Convention about the banning of landmines, which to date, I think only four or five countries have domestic laws.

We are talking about something that is very serious, something that is called OPCAT [Optional Protocol on Convention Against Torture, which every country is going to report [their progress] in November this year. What is it that they are going to report?

My country Kenya has not done anything in spite of civil society organisations providing a lot of information, a lot of help so that OPCAT could be domesticated. These are big things.

So, we are not excited that Kenya wants to come out as the first country to sign the convention banning cluster munitions, but we will be excited that something is already in place to show that this Treaty is going to be domesticated.

What do countries like Uganda, Sudan, Somalia and Eritrea, which have been using cluster bombs, need to do to show their commitment to the effort to stop their use?

Ethiopia is in it half heartedly, Sudan is no where, I don't even think they are here, and here is the minister saying that we need to punish these guys. (Uganda's Minister for Disaster Preparedness, Prof Tarsis Kabwegyere proposed at the opening of the conference in Kampala that countries that fail to sign the Convention in December be punished.)

Threats do not work against any country. So long as he is speaking as a minister, even if he says he is speaking as a person, but you see he didn't come here as a person. If he was any other Ugandan walking around and he made that comment, I think it would really not matter. So I think Uganda needs to come out clearly and help these other countries. What Kenya has done is to use their diplomatic core that is present in our country to reach these other countries.

Let Uganda come out ...have a public demonstration, call the press and let the whole world see that this is our stock and we are destroying them. Stop the lip service in press conferences. I remember in Kenya in 1987, when we were talking about banning the illegal trade on Ivory, President Moi at that time came out and burnt billions and billions worth of the Ivory. Why can't Uganda also do the same?

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