30 September 2008
Lagos — Executive Secretary of the National Universities Commission (NUC), Prof. Julius Okojie, is as blunt as he is humorous. While many believe that education at all levels can be free and key individuals in the sector would rather be silent on the matter, in order not to become unpopular, Okojie insists that good quality higher education, which every society needs to develop, cannot be free. He spoke on this and other issues in an interview with Bukola Olatunji
How has the running of the National Universities Commission been and what would you say are its major challenges? The structure of the National Universities Commission has grown over the years. When we had just the University of Ibadan, it did not really matter. Even when we had six universities, it did not matter too much because it was a small office in the cabinet office. But since it became a commission in 1974 or thereabout, it is about 42 years now, it has had the responsibility of prescribing minimum academic standards, quality assurance and accreditation. With the increasing number of universities, it means we have to go for accreditation more frequently. We also have the responsibility of making recommendations for the approval of private universities. Between 2002 when I was the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Private Universities (SCoPU) and now, we have created 27 private universities. The idea was to create a critical mass that can compete favourably with the public universities. So you now have about equal number - 27 federal, 32 state and 34 private universities. For the first time you have more private universities than either of state or federal. The challenges have also altered. There are new dynamics. When you have more private universities to deal with and they are younger, then you have the issue of quality, staff, etc, come on board. Quality assurance is not just about programmes. We also have facilities and the quality of teachers. Those are challenges. And people are becoming more aware of the issue of access. Access has created a vacuum to the extent that you have about 1.2 million students sitting for the UME and you only have places for about 200, 000. There is always that reason for people to want to do untoward things. But they have no reason for unapproved affiliations and linkages that are running. The challenges are enormous. In the process, we also trying to ensure that we have control over the post-graduate programmes by designing and determining their minimum academic standards. We also ensure that we have proper audit of the programmes. We are now going to start audit for the staff and students. We want to be able to ensure who are the bona fide students in the system. A bonafide student is the one who registered officially in the system and has gone through the UME for admission and has the matriculation number of that institution. Then there is the issue of carrying capacity to ensure that universities do not use limited facilities for large numbers of students. We're also trying to talk about linkages with development partners, to see whether academics in the Diaspora can come on board. We have a programme called Linkages in Experts and Academics in Diaspora (LEAD) which is very functional now. We have very good response that indicates that a lot of our colleagues want to come home. Of recent, nine have completed their stay for up to six months. Some are even staying for more than one year. They are about 39 that are willing to come. We are hoping that is going to solve some of the problems. We are encouraging Ph.D. in universities, because the minimum requirement for teaching in the university is a PhD, so we are appealing to government to put a critical mass of funds for Research and Ph. D development, so that we can expand access. You cannot expand access when you don't have the qualified teachers. The challenges are enormous and we are making progress. We are about the most robust quality assurance instrument in Africa. I recently gave a lecture to the Council on Higher Education Accreditation, so we are comparing modes and systems. What has become most disturbing is the issue of people who just wake up and start a university, even when you inform the public they still want to register in those institutions. So regularly, through our Monday bulletin, we publish the list of unapproved universities. Those are the ones we know. We have put in place a consultancy outfit, headed by a Deputy Inspector General of Police to help us investigate. We are not just waiting until somebody tells us those who are running illegally in the system. So we are going to pursue them. We are now going to use the law enforcement agents to ensure that those who are wrong are brought to book. We provide information on the internet, print and electronic media to let people know that those institutions that are not properly registered are in trouble. We are also in very close link with the NYSC and JAMB. So when these three organisations come together, students will know that if they go in through the wrong system, they won't have any positive output. Their certificates won't be recognised. But I have a duty of telling them before they get that far.
How can universities tackle the problem of inadequate funding?
In most parts of the world, education at the higher level is a shared responsibility. If you look at the history of private universities in America, Yale and Harvard, up till now, rely on tuition for only 28 per cent of their funding. The rest comes from endowments and corporate bodies. Universities have to learn to invest. Universities have to learn to source for fund for themselves. Ibadan is 60 years old this year and it still relies on government for 80 to 90 per cent of its funding, which is not right. The internally generated revenue base of most universities is increasing now. Government's policy of free tuition at all levels in public institutions is becoming a little embarrassing, because government does not have the will to tell the people that it cannot sustain that policy statement. Successive governments will keep saying education is free. It can't be free at that (tertiary) level. So we must think about cost sharing. This is what we are trying to do now by finding out what it costs to train a student, so that people will become aware of the fact that if it costs almost N900, 000 to train a Veterinary Medicine student, which is the true case, should all that be the responsibility of the government? We think it is better to share responsibilities. I think the public should know that if you don't pay for education, the quality becomes very poor. For good quality education, you must pay something. So we are trying to find out how much of it would go to the parents and their wards, and how much the government should pay and how much the universities should generate. That is what I advocate. Whether the government will have the will power to do this I don't know. In my time I paid tuition. I paid 200 pounds a year before we changed to naira. I later won a Federal Government scholarship. But we should ensure that those who don't have the ability should not be prevented from going to school, either through scholarships or student loan and what have you. They do it in Britain and once you have a good job, you start paying back. But I can tell what will happen in Nigeria (if this is done). The student will disappear and go to Europe. The problem is the issue of the individual. There should be integrity. We should be honest enough in the system. So we must put in place a proper setting.
Universities should go into general investment. They should be outward looking and I know that a lot of universities are doing that. Ibadan has no business taking more than 20 per cent of its funding from government and I know it has a body that is business focused; UNIBADAN Ventures and they are making it. The alumni are also doing great.
You talked about the dearth of Ph. D holders and your efforts to get government to invest more in research and Ph. D development. But some say the universities are also a problem. There have been cases of Ph. D students being frustrated by their supervisors and abandoning their programmes after six, seven years. Can't NUC get such lecturers to also be more forward looking?
Those are exceptions and not the rule. I have supervised students and they graduated in good time. When you have a student who is not concentrating or has not applied himself physically to his work, the Supervisor will not just award the degree. He is the one who critiquing, who knows the new direction in that area of research. It is a doctor of philosophy. You have to work for it. But if a student is working with a Supervisor who hasn't got the courage, maybe he is not knowledgeable in that area, and he is afraid because he knows he has to invite external examiners and if the thesis is poor, he has also failed; then the work may drag. What I think the approach should be the approach is that if you lack the materials for research and competence in the area; ask for research fellows from any part of the world. In these days of the internet, you can interact with anyone. PhD is like the issue of two boxers in the ring. It is the more determined that wins. If your Supervisor is more determined, you may never get it. You may have to drive your Supervisor. But we still insist that PhD is the minimum requirement for teaching because that is the first opportunity to do real research and put it in writing. In some universities, they require that you must publish on that thesis to indicate that you have contributed to knowledge before it is accepted. In some institutions, like the University of Agriculture, Abeokuta (UNAAB), where I was Vice Chancellor, it is an open, public thesis defense that can be attended by people from town that are knowledgeable in that area. It is not a question of one small panel.
Some federal universities have accused some new private universities of poaching their lecturers and also the NUC for not cross-checking their claims of having enough academy staff for their programmes. How do you react to this?
Why would NUC always bear these blames? If you read about the development of private universities in the US, Harvard University was founded in 1634, Yale in 1701. People moved from Harvard to Yale. People will always move from one university to the other. Poaching will continue. If they didn't go to another university, they could leave the system. We have had inter-sectoral brain drain, where lecturers leave for the industry.
But they go to the private universities and still retain their jobs in the federal universities?
You have the right to go on sabbatical and leave of absence. Over the years, some of these people have accumulated leave, some for five, six years. So they about two years off and go and teach. Except you are close to that individual, you won't know what he is doing.
What is the minimum number of academic staff that a private university is expected to have to run?
What determines that is staff/student ratio. If you have two programmes and in that programme there are about 10 courses, you estimate. You can have a university with only two programmes running, if there are 24 staff there, they will make it. So you don't determine the minimum number of staff. You can also ask, if I'm running a programme in Chemistry what minimum number of courses should be offered to upgrade that course in one year. What any new private university needs in the first year are General Studies and the Basic Sciences, so they may rely on some Master's and PhD holders on sabbatical to beef up their staff strength. In the first year you build up with people that are immediately available because we are running different semesters because of the disconnection in the system. These universities will grow otherwise I won't be in the NUC. I have a passion for private universities because they are going to be the solution to our problems. It is true if you don't pay for good education you will not get it. It does not preclude a good student going to a public university. We also offer scholarships in private universities. When I was in Ota (The Bells University) we gave the best student a scholarship.
How will you react to the allegation by some Vice Chancellors that NUC plays politics with accreditation?
Nobody has said that. Listen my dear, you are the press. You have a duty to ensuring that the system works. Be on the side of truth. A Vice Chancellor has right to write to us after any accreditation. We have been reading the papers saying they were number one in this and number two in that. I have had two cases. When you say Vice Chancellors, there are 93 universities. When we go (for accreditation) we have what we call the technical report and they explain to you why you did not make it. Some universities have HND holders teaching. We have set standards about what the class rooms should look like, what the black board should look like, how many students should be in a class and in Computer Laboratory, how many students per computer.
There are three professors from different environment (assigned to each university) and each one is marking individually. Are you saying Professors have no integrity to sit down and decide that they must fail a university? Or do we call them and tell them that you must go and fail that institution. Nobody does that. I am in charge of this situation. (One university) went to the Minister and said they could not make it. I told the Honourable Minister that I am a regulatory agency, this man, if there is a problem he should come to the NUC, so we can show him the documents. If anybody has anything now, we have what they call the ground of appeal. You appeal. Those who come first publish in the papers that they are number one. Why don't they say that they bribe us to get that position? We have a problem with the system and that is integrity. I stand to be challenged. How can three professors connive to fail universities with an NUC scribe leading them? Help us to do this job.
What have you gained from the conference?
We have a problem about access in Nigeria. But I have discovered that is not just access, but quality access, not to just higher education, but to issues of HIV, farming system, livelihood and even weather. We are talking about continuous education, basic and post basic, vocational and technical education. About 80 percent of our students who desire university education does not have placement. We should have a flexible system, so that if you go in one direction, when you are competent enough, you can go the other way. Open and Distance Learning (ODL) will enhance that because if you have certification for some of these programmes that they do. It will help us a long way. What I have learnt from here is that we keep emphasising National Open University, ODL should actually face other areas such as HIV campaigns, basic and post basic campaign and technical and vocational campaign education, and general information for those who just want to learn. We will soon be talking about the areas of post graduate training. It is going to be a very powerful tool.
Another thing I have also learned is that from the World Trade Organisation concept's general agreement on trade and services, they see Africa as a very viable market for offshore provision of ODL. But I think we have to be very careful. We can share facilities and resources that can enhance our own ODL in house. But for them to now say they want to offer those programmes to our candidates in Nigeria, except we have control over what the quality is and who is offering what, we are going to have a problem. The issues of security and national need are very relevant. We need to also work with development partners to tell them our fears. Recently I was with the British Council to tell them that any university in Britain that wants to offer any service in Nigeria must go through the British council. So we were able to talk at that level of regulatory agencies on what they should be doing.
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