Daily Independent (Lagos)
6 October 2008
interview
Abdulkadir Balarabe Musa, former governor of the Old Kaduna State during the Second Republic and leader of the Conference of the Nigerian Political Parties (CNPP) is seen by many as an unrepentant politician of the leftist extraction and an advocate of the Socialist economy and ideology.
He does not only preach it, he depicts it. The GRA Kaduna where he resides used to be the safe haven for the ubiquitous, but faceless and powerful Kaduna Mafia. But contrary to the expectation of a first time visitor, the modest residence of the former governor depicts the life of a Spartan - devoid of any comfort and luxury. In this interview with Kaduna Bureau Chief, SUKUJI BAKOJI, the astute politician bares on many national issues, including his experience in politics. Excerpts:
How do you react to the assertion by INEC that the commission is handicapped in prosecuting major offenders during the April 2007 elections because of the constitutional immunity, which they enjoy?
Well, it is a shameless lie told by INEC; because not all of them are covered by immunity. They talked about governors, ministers and other government's functionaries. But, in fact, only governors are covered by immunity. Ministers and other functionaries are not covered by immunity. And even in the case of governors and deputy governors, President and Vice President, if INEC really wanted to do their work, they ought just not regret inability to prosecute them. They should do better by investigating their malpractices, which affected the elections and exposed them; because there is nothing stopping INEC from investing and exposing even those who have immunity. It is only prosecution that they cannot do. So actually as I said, INEC told a shameless lie just for the purpose of deceiving Nigerians and hiding their treasonable actions by conspiring to derail the 2003 and 2007 elections. The PRP is still calling for the probe of the INEC in respect of their financial dealings and in respect of their conduct of elections, including the preparations leading to the elections. We believe INEC committed corrupt practices, which had been exposed by the Media. We believe INEC actually committed treasonable offences by conspiring to conduct fraudulent election leading to the illegitimate government that we are now battling with.
But don't you think that the call for the probe of INEC is belated considering the fact that attention has now been diverted to the health of Mr. President?
Well, only few Nigerians have been diverted towards the health of Mr. President. The vast majority of informed and involved Nigerians pray for his quick recovery. But that's all. They have not allowed themselves to be diverted by the health, as regrettable as it is. They are still pursuing their patriotic actions, by demanding corrective actions to deal with the negative state of the nation.
The main umpire at the elections, Professor Maurice Iwu, is still at the helm of affairs at INEC. Don't you think that he should be the one to be removed?
Well, I think we have gone beyond the removal of Iwu. Even if you replace Iwu it is the same thing. First, probe INEC over the conduct of elections in 2003 and 2007. Secondly, probe the financial dealings with INEC. Because a number of allegations of corruption have been made against INEC and we have heard nothing about it. Then, of course, after these, then you deal with the reorganisation of INEC, which includes completely new relevant electoral body that can conduct free, fair and legitimate election leading to legitimate government. Obviously, the INEC we see as relevant and capable of carrying out its responsibilities is an INEC, which involves political parties. In other words, the electoral body should include at least half, representing political parties, the other half representing civil society organisations like the NLC, the Nigerian Bar Associations, the youth organisations.
But President Yar'Adua had already inaugurated the Electoral Reform Committee. Is the opposition not comfortable with what the committee is doing?
I don't think any informed and involved Nigerians has confidence in the electoral reform committee for various reasons; but particularly, because Yar'Adua himself lacks the legitimacy, the moral authority to institute this reform because he is direct product of the fraudulent elections. So he cannot be expected to reform anything. His reform committee is meant to deceive Nigerians, buy time, and probably get acceptance and credibility. But, you know, the result now is everybody ignores this reform committee and the committee itself has found it almost impossible to win the confidence of Nigerians and to perform. So it has now ended as just one of the numberless number of committees that had been instituted in this country. I am quite sure by the time it submits its report, if it will submit at all, nobody will take notice of the submission of the report and the report itself.
The umbrella organisation for the opposition political parties, the Conference Of Nigerian Political Parties (CNPP), which you are the chairman has called on the National Assembly to set up a medical board of Don't you agree that this issue of the health of the President is over flogged. Many believe that the President should be left alone to do his work as long as he is still fit and has not said that he is sick and incapable of performing his official functions. After all Deleano Roosevelt of the United States who was crippled not only did his job but performed meritoriously as president during the Depression Period of 1930s?
What I said. Americans at that time and even now, have a standard, which was working. And because there was a standard, which has produced a leadership, which was working the role of the individual as crucial as it was, it was limited. Immediately, anything happens to the individual, the system will function immediately to remove any vacuum, to remove any negative result of the condition of health of the individual. The system and the leadership are there. But here, where is the system? Where is the leadership? Look at this issue of information. The President was sick and was overseas for over two weeks yet there was not a single information from the government in Nigeria. Can you imagine this happening in Britain, in America, in India, or even in Ghana? Can you imagine this happening? But it happened in Nigeria and it is still happening.
There are still lots of speculations trailing the sudden removal of Baba Gana Kingibe as the Secretary to the Federal Government (SGF). What's your own comment on the matter?
Well, I don't think people should read too much into this. Because Baba Gana Kingibe as important as his post is, the Secretary to the Government of the Federation, he is an appointee like any other appointee. He can be removed with the same ease that he was appointed. So unless we hear of something about the removal, I think we should just leave it as that. It is just a question of removal and replacement, and just face it.
But there is feeling that Kingibe was just a scapegoat whose removal was meant to divert attention from the health of the president. Do you think so?
Well, I wouldn't go to that extend until we know from the government. And you know one of the things we dislike about this government is lack of taking Nigerians into confidence and informing them about crucial issues. I mean even though the position of the SGF is not that crucial but definitely removal of the SGF means a little information to convince Nigerians that there is nothing wrong in the Government, nothing wrong about the running of government. But you know they failed to give that information. They just said he had been removed and replaced by someone.
The ruling party, PDP, has insisted that the President is medically fit to finish his first term and even go for the second term. How do you react to this argument?
What do you expect from a party like PDP, which even Obasanjo said, was not a political party but a political rally? What do you expect from them? Do you expect even any level of morality from the PDP when it still keep Obasanjo as the chairman of the Board of Trustees of the party in spite of his exposure as corrupt and immoral even at personal level, they still keep him. So what do you expect? Do you expect any moral standard from such a party?
There is this speculation that you know president Umaru Musa Yar'Adua very well and that he was your political adviser when you were governor of the People's Redemption Party (PRP) in the old Kaduna State. To what extent do you know the President as a person?
Now, first of all, he was never my political adviser when I was Governor of Kaduna State. He was a member of the PRP and an honourable member so much that we appointed him to two boards, which was unusual. And not only that, we wanted to make him the Chairman of our Mass Literacy Agency. But it didn't work because of some problems. But immediately after the Second Republic he ceased to have any relationship with PRP either in his state or throughout the country. Virtually, he left the PRP and joined his brother's party, the PFN, later the SDP then. Of course, later he became a member of the PDP. So you can see historically he was PRP. But he decamped to other political parties. Now knowing him personally, I don't know him personally. In fact the only time I can remember I ever met him, was I think, a few months before he became the President. At that time, he was the Governor of Katsina State . There was a function in Kaduna in honour of a common friend, a friend to the governor then and a friend of mine. And we met there. We even sat together and greeted. That was the first time we ever met. So at personal level, I don't know him. Even at party level, I shouldn't know him because in the case of his appointment, his name was recommended to me. I didn't have to see him and I approved it. May be we met on some other occasions I can't remember. But since I cannot remember having met him more than once then it means I can't talk much about him as a person. But as a member of the PRP it means he has the socialist ideology. Because during the Second Republic even though his father was a patron of the NPN, he chose to join the PRP but after that he changed and joined a party with capitalist ideology.
Why is it that some Nigerian politicians are inconsistent in the political ideology?
Well, we always say and this is what our predecessors told us. The progressives of today can be the reactionaries of tomorrow and vice versa; the reactionaries of today can be the progressives of tomorrow. So that is just it. And you know there are many examples of people who occupied prominent positions in the PRP, who are now no longer in the PRP. They are in parties opposed to what the PRP stands for; so many of them. Of course, there are also people who belong to the parties opposed to the PRP before but they are now in the PRP. You know there are examples of governors. I think we have now almost 10 people, who were governors under the PRP, who left the PRP and joined other parties, about 10 of them. But those who were nominated as governorship candidates and contested as governors of the PRP and former PRP members like the President himself, former Governor, Ahmed Makarfi of Kaduna State, former Governor Bukar Abba Ibrahim of Yobe State and one chartered accountant from Imo State. I can't remember his name. They were all PRP national leaders, who decamped to other parties, contested elections as governors under the other parties.
You are the only apostle of the socialist system in the country today, as it seems. Others have abandoned the system because the socialist system is no longer fashionable and outdated. Do you agree with them?
This is propaganda of the capitalists and propaganda of those renegade intellectuals. But it doesn't accord with the reality. The reality is that socialism still exists as an alternative system to capitalism. And socialism is still guiding the lives of billions of people in China, in North Korea, in Vietnam, in Cuba and in a variety of ways in other countries that are ideologically socialists but implementing socialist principles. For instance, like what happens in Libya, Islamic socialism. And then even in the former Eastern European countries, which were socialists. But because of this overthrow of socialism there, they became pro-West and pro-capitalists. But they saw the bankruptcy of capitalism to such an extent that the socialist parties are now winning elections even at national levels in these East European countries. So really socialism, as an alternative to capitalism is still relevant. What has happened is that socialism has suffered a setback like all other socio-economic systems controlling development in the history of mankind. It has suffered a setback by the loss of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Europe as a bulwark. It has suffered a setback because of the absence socialist solidarity in the world that used to be socialist solidarity, particularly in the 60's and 70's. That does not exist now. Even at the level of a political party in the past there was socialist solidarity at the level of government and at the level of political parties. But this socialist solidarity at the level of countries, the level of government and even at the level of political parties doesn't exist. This, sadly, is a setback. But remember, even capitalism has been suffering from setback consistently. For instance, in 1960s you couldn't talk of national planning in America or in Britain or in any of the capitalist countries. But today is a feature of the economy of capitalist countries. Even recently, I was hearing the report of America planning to take over some private mortgage institutions as a result of failure and so on. I mean this is aspect of socialism. So you can say capitalism itself is suffering a setback. Capitalism has organised onslaught on socialism by attacking socialism at its tools; because the root of socialism at that time was Russia, China and Eastern Europe. So capitalism used its economic power, which was relatively stronger than that of socialism to undermine the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. But China remained as a bulwark. Of course, China, too, no longer subscribes to the socialist solidarity and so on. But it is there as a bulwark.
You know the onslaught has not succeeded. Some political pundits are actually saying that you're the last man standing in the socialist ideology in the country. Do you think you alone standing will be able to make any different in this socialist ideology?
Well, the idea of me alone standing is an apolitical idea. You see throughout the history of mankind, individuals have always been lucky to be identified and associated with a leading role. But that doesn't mean that they are alone. They cannot stand alone if there has not been a group, a comradeship for instance, if there had not been a socialist group in Nigeria or socialist philosophy in Nigeria. Whether you identify it or not is another matter. I wouldn't have existed as a socialist leader. Really there is a socialist group, there is a socialist tendency and this socialist group and socialist tendency are relevant and that is why it is possible to identify an individual. If there has not been, it wouldn't have been possible. I mean, for instance, I am lucky simply because I became Governor of Kaduna State and that helped me to continue to be what I am. But there are people who I can say are my seniors in socialist ideology, who are still alive but they didn't have the opportunity of becoming governors. For instance, Professor Esko Toya. He is at the moment now I can tell you is the clearest Marxist-Leninist socialist in Nigeria. There were others like him but they have now all died. But people are not talking about Esko Toyo, except within the intellectual sector, simply because he didn't become governor of any state. If he had become governor of Cross River State, where he comes from or Akwa Ibom where is lives, yes, he would have been rated even higher than me. Because he is older.
But at what point in time did you become a socialist in life?
I think I came about it through my fundamental Islamic background. I believe this is the most important thing I can say.
You are a British-trained Chartered Accountant who believes in honesty, sincerity and accountability. How do you feel when you learn how some accountants often connive with unscrupulous politicians to siphon public funds? Do you regret ever being an accountant?
First of all, I was a politician before I became an accountant. I was a registered member of the Northern Elements Progressive Union (NEPU) in 1953. I registered in Jos, while I was still a civil servant. I started my studies as an accountant in 1958 and in 1960 I went to Britain to study accountancy. So it is clear I was a politician before I became an accountant. I chose accountancy simply because by 1959, after the 1959 federal election I knew I would have to leave civil service and be in politics. So I wanted to prepare myself for that role and I wanted to have economic independence so that I could have independence to pursue my socialist cause. And the only profession I believe could give me that independence was accountability and I had the background because my first employment was a treasury clerk in the Accountant General's Office. And since then I have always been involved with finance and accounting; and I taught it. So it was natural that I chose accountancy as the profession that could give my independence. And it did give me independence and it still gives me independence. But before I finished my studies in 1967, I realised that even accountancy could not give me independence because if I established a firm of accountants to get that independence that firm of accountants would not get patronage. Because the same people I would be taking on are the same people that would give me patronage. So I avoided establishing a firm of accountants or even joining one. But up to now I benefit tremendously from accountancy. For instance, in fact, since 1981 when I left as Governor of Kaduna State, I have to fend for myself and I went into full-scale farming. Throughout I rely on bank loans to pursue my farm project and it has been relatively easy for me simply because of my expertise as an accountant. I know how to raise the loan and use the loan to perform and satisfy my limited needs.
Some people say that because of your uncompromising posture towards corruption that you were fired in one or two places in the civil service. How true is it?
Well, it is largely true. Let me tell you what happened. Throughout my life as a civil servant, from 1953 to 1975, I had continuously had brushes with the system because of my opposition to corruption. I will tell you the first. The first was in Jos in 1954 when I was transferred as a treasury clerk to sub-treasury Jos. I found an arrangement where everybody that had a voucher, either charges voucher, sometimes, even salary, because by that time all government payments were made through the sub-treasury, which was a central organisation not regionalised. And all revenues were collected through the sub-treasury and so on. There was an arrangement by the sub-treasury Jos where everybody who had a voucher to claim other charges. In those days it was a law to pass vouchers within two days unless there were some reasons. But in cases where people presented their vouchers and wanted them to be paid the same day or the following day, those people in particular were required to give something in appreciation after they had collected their money. And then there were also cases of what they called at that time finance clerks. Now the finance clerks were presenting very large vouchers for payment and very often those vouchers some of them had queries and so on and so forth. So they wanted those vouchers to be paid in spite of the minor queries. In those days, minor queries, not major queries, nobody could pass a voucher with a major query. So there was an arrangement to collect this bribe; because those days it was one Shilling, two Shillings, and so on. So a clerk was designated to collect it, very often the paying treasurer. So he would collect it under the supervision of the Chief Clerk. The Chief Clerk was in charge of the sub-treasury and at the end of the month the bribe collected would be shared. You know, equivalent to what they call today 'thanks.' When they shared it, everybody would end up with six Shillings, seven Shillings, and Eight Shillings. I don't think anybody could end up with more than 10 Shillings in those days; because it was on a small scale. So when I was transferred from Kaduna to Jos, it happened that somehow I revolted against it. I wasn't myself qualified to pay, but I was a checking clerk attached to a senior clerk. Because I revolted against it I was kept out of the system completely. That's one. Now I would talk about the last one; my experience and that ended my career in the civil service. I decided to leave the civil service completely. That was in 1973 when I was the Chief Accountant and Company Secretary of the North Central Co-operative Bank. I found the General Manager, an expatriate, trying to steal N250,000 belong to the bank. To transfer it abroad for the purpose of opening foreign account, because we were about to engage in foreign exchange transactions. But he was doing this without the knowledge and approval of the Board. So I went straight to one of the directors and informed him about the implication of that and if nothing were done the money would leave the country. And immediately after it had left the country the expatriate would leave. The expatriate was so much clever in the Nigerian system that he even became a chief in Lagos. But because of the cooperation between the then governor of Lagos State, Johnson, and the governor of Kaduna State at that time, Abba Kyari; you know Abba Kyari was establishing the bank and this British man who became a chief in Lagos was made the General Manager. So when I reported to this director who was a Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Finance, he couldn't do anything and I was shocked. He was my schoolmate, one year senior to tome. So we knew each other. But I couldn't convince him to do something to stop this money being transferred. So I went straight to the agent of the Central Bank. By that time Central Bank had been established here in Kaduna. I went to the agent and reported to him that this was going to happen and the money could only be transferred through the Central Bank. And if that happened and if the agent allowed that to happen I would include him in my exposure. So I stopped the transfer of the money. Shortly after I went to Saudi Arabia for my first obligation, pilgrimage. While I was there I was informed from Kaduna that my appointment had been terminated because I was incompatible. You know the European connived with the directors to terminate my appointment. And when I returned I went to the bank, I complained and I even threatened them that I would expose the directors and the general manager for corruption. And I gave them some indications of my threat, including the chairman of the bank having taken loan from the bank through a proxy who was a district head, and the district head could not pay the loan and when I insisted that he should pay the loan he told me the truth that look, he only applied for the loan on instruction and immediately he got the loan he handed over the money. So it was to cover that that they terminated my appointment. But when I returned I insisted that I should have normal query and everything. Even though they said I was incompatible, it should be established that I was incompatible. You know what happened was during Murtala Mohammed and part of his sanitisation of the civil service brought regulations for removing civil servants on many grounds. One of them was 'incompatibility.' So even though they couldn't accuse me of anything, they said I was incompatible. In any case, when I returned I contested it and because they directors were threatened, they allowed me to defend myself. So I returned to the office, prepared my defence. And immediately I prepared my defence, instead of giving them the defence, I went straight to the commissioner of Police then; he hailed from Plateau State, I can't remember his name. I went to him, I told him, 'look I am going to expose corruption in this bank. But this corruption is being committed by directors, et cetera, et cetera. And if I expose it the first thing they would do is to organise a report to you so that I could be arrested for security reasons. So this is why I am telling you. And I gave him a copy. Immediately I gave him, he was shocked. He wanted me to speak to the governor at that time. But I said, 'look the governor knows everything because I couldn't have been removed without the approval of the governor and the governor ought to have a justification for the removal. He even intended telephoning the governor and asked me to speak to the governor, I refused. And from that time I decided to have an end with the civil service. So actually throughout the time I was in the civil service from 1953 to 1975 I had been having brushes with the system bordering on anti-corruption and I had always left my employment for another employment within the same civil service after a commission of inquiry. For instance, I left the BCNN after a commission of inquiry simply because of me. I left the North Central Co-operative Bank after a commission of inquiry.
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