Professor Julius Ihonbvere, former presidential aide, is a member of the Niger Delta Technical Committee. In this interview, Ihonbvere gives a holistic view of what Nigerians should expect from the committee and vows that the recommendations will be acceptable to Nigerians. He also speaks on the newly created Niger Delta ministry and the agitation for resource control by Arewa Consultative Forum and Afenifere.

The Niger Delta Technical Committee is already on ground while the Niger Delta ministry is in the pipeline to find lasting solution to the Niger Delta problem. But many Nigerians are skeptical about the ability of the bodies to find solution to the problem?

I think the first thing is to commend the president for the seriousness of purpose he has exhibited on the issue of Niger Delta. And for being sensitive to the yearnings of the people from the area, particularly over the issue of the summit, when they were opposed to a summit and preferred the Technical Committee and the government bowing to that shows that they are truly committed to a democratic practice.

Secondly, we must put in mind that there are over three hundred reports that have never been implemented, that is why some people are skeptical. But I think that if you look at the various meetings that were held, the involvement of the governors, the representation in the Technical Committee, one from each senatorial district from the Niger Delta states and then some special interest being brought in also to ensure balance, you will find out that the Yar'Adua government has distanced itself from the previous practices where people just sit down somewhere, call some people and say they are committee members, go and do this or that.

The people are being drawn within the Niger Delta, by Niger Deltans and they carry the responsibilities and the pains, the dreams and the hopes of the Niger Delta people. Then you look at the quality of the people there. You have academicians, researchers, policy makers, activists, former governors and retired military officers, and, from what I have seen, people took the job seriously and, for the first time also, we have the Diaspora well represented so that Niger Deltans abroad can also have a say in what we are doing. And, I think, at that level, we must say the Yar'Adua administration means well and we must commend it and give it all the support.

Can we know how far your committee has gone?

The office of the vice-president has been very understanding because, when we started the job, we discovered that the 10-day deadline was not practicable. Even it will take quite some time to gather all the materials from the Willinks Commission, UNDP report, the various NGO reports, the Ogomudia report and the various documents on the Niger Delta region. And if we did not work very hard, that alone will take us a month.

However, we have completed the first stanza, we broke up into sub-committees covering various issues, militancy, governance, rule of law, security, resource control. These are areas we looked into. We have also reviewed existing reports. So we have finished our sitting, all the sub-committees have brought in their reports and they have been presented in plenary.

We are now going into the formal writing of the report. I think we are taking a cue from the president's position that issues that are executive should be presented to the executive and those that require constitutional amendment should be sent to the National Assembly. So I suspect that when we begin report writing, when we reconvene for a couple of days to endorse this report, we will put that into consideration.

So I think we have done a very good job, it is nice to know that there was no in-fighting, no disagreement, we worked together as one family. In fact, when we were invited to a reception with the vice-president and the aides and the people in charge of protocol designed the table state by state, the members refused to sit state by state, saying we are all from the Niger Delta, not state by state and the vice president himself supported that move. So I think we have done very very well.

The committee on militancy went to Oproza in Delta State, all the militant groups came there and we met with them. We heard them out and also told them the work we are doing. The governors came one after the other to meet with the committee to present their own positions and gave words of encouragement. We are all very determined and I think this time we intend to produce a report that is implement able, that is feasible and that will be acceptable to the people.

Can we know your observations on the cause of the protracted crisis?

Well, from what we have seen so far, the number one problem has been the lack of political will and insincerity of government. Nothing else. Our committee is only adding a few things. Actually, there is nothing about the Niger Delta that has not been written or recommended in the over three hundred reports.

In fact, if you take the Kupolati's report, they go to the extent of listing schools, health centres, roads, the current position of things, whether it is dilapidated or abandoned. And, at the end of it, they go to the extent of state by state, things that could be done by May 1999, before the handover, with costing, but not one was implemented.

The Ogomudia report, the same thing, not one was implemented. There are hundreds of reports like that. So there has never been that sincerity, there has never been that political will. So what we have observed is that there seems to be the political will on the part of the Yar'Adua administration to do some thing different. But we also recognize that doing something different is not only part of the commitment by government but also because of the struggles of Niger Delta people.

The militants particularly, and even the governors, some have spoken out very loudly about the critical issues. So I think the combination of the two, the militants themselves are willing to cooperate, to stop the violence provided they see seriousness coming from the other side, evidence of dedication of commitment and the political will to transform the area.

The third issue is that it is obvious that even within the Niger Delta itself, there is some kind of marginalization and oppression. Everything is in the mainland, the upland areas, the real riverine areas, they are not part of Nigeria. They are not even living the lives of people in the fourth world, there is absolutely nothing there.

There are no infrastructure, some have no schools at all, they are ignored in political appointments, yet they produce the oil. So, this time, in the committee, in our discussions and discussions with the stakeholders, there has been what I might call a very special interest and attention in what we might call the real riverine areas, the creeks, the issue of terrain, it has become very central this time.

That unless you balance the real riverine areas and the upland areas ecologically, industrially, politically, educationally, technologically and otherwise, you are going to create a kind of internal colonialism and that will breed a kind of violence that will make it impossible for you to sleep in places like Benin, Warri, Port-Harcourt or Calabar, when people in the creeks decide to take action. I also think that what is imagined is a better understanding of what the executive can do and cannot do. Some of the demands that are common to Niger Delta people are not things that any president can get up and announce, 'I have done this.'

Creation of local governments, creation of states, fiscal federalism, empowerment of a certain institution to better perform their functions, for example. Even the question of state autonomy of some national constitutionalism, these are things that require constitutional amendment. So we are going to be addressing that. Luckily, there is a process of constitution review going on. So the issue is for the stakeholders to embrace that process in order to realie it. Finally, I will say that what is also becoming rather clear is that many of demands that Niger Delta people are making are supported also by other groups in the country.

The memos we received from the Yoruba groups, even Arewa, support true federalism, resource control. They too want a situation where each state will control its own resources, so it is not peculiar to Niger Delta people. What they are saying is that everybody should control his own resources. And then the general demand is there that what the constitution says is that it should not be less than 13 per cent. It could be up to anything and that is within the executive power to do.

So I think these are certain features that are beginning to emerge that were not there before. And we all now have the full recognition that if the militants want to make this country, not just the Niger Delta, totally unsafe, they can do it. They are well organized, they are well led, they are disciplined, they are well armed. It is true that a few criminals have taken advantage of the genuine struggle of the people but to confuse the criminals with the militants is a mistake. And to assume that they cannot do anything is a mistake because where they are staying, even the Nigerian navy cannot get there.

Ships can't get there. And if you use flat bottom boats to try and reach there, they are seeing you coming because it is like I sitting in my house and you are coming into the main gate, I am seeing you, you may not be seeing me, you may not know where I am hiding in the main house. The alternative is to bomb all the villages there and you will be accused of genocide. So this is the time to stop all the bragging, all the belief that violence can intimidate anybody. We should sit down, dialogue, it will be give and take, show common will, show the commitment and make a difference in the lives of these people.

But there is this fear that the Niger Delta ministry and the Technical Committee are being duplicated and may not succeed as expected?

Yes some people had the fear that the ministry was a distraction particularly as it was created a few days after the Technical Committee was created and that the committee should have been allowed to make its own recommendation which may have included the ministry and then they will define what the roles of the minister and the minister of state should be. I believe that what the president was trying to do was to show clearly that they really mean business when it comes to the Niger Delta issue.

To the point of having a special ministry to take care of their problems shows that it is urgent, it is challenging and you do not have to go round all the ministries looking for water, agriculture, technology but this is a ministry now that can be a one-stop shop for all issues concerning the Niger Delta. What we have said and my view is that it should not be a healthy bureaucracy so that to get a cheque out will take six months and contractors will be out there abandoning the sites. Two, is that the ministry must pay special attention to people who know the terrain, who are sympathetic to the terrain, it does make a difference. I believe that the ministry should be based in Abuja, all federal ministries are in Abuja, not in the states.

It is a federal ministry not a state ministry but it can have offices in the various states. The ministry must be set up and equipped with a very strong policy evaluation, monitoring units, research unit so that they will have proper understanding of the dynamics of the Niger Delta, and because it is focussed on the Niger Delta, it must not operate like every other ministry because, in parts of the Niger Delta, you can only do things in certain times of the year because of the terrain. So you cannot treat it like other ministries that work 24 hours and twelve months of the year.

The Niger Delta ministry has to be treated as a special ministry, dealing with a special problem, with a special sense of mission and must be subjected to regular quality evaluation which should be made public. And it must be funded adequately, not like other federal ministries where you hear N20 billion, then they release N1billion. I believe that in the case of this ministry, it is going to spearhead the radical, holistic changes we are talking about in the region. Then whatever funding is announced for it must be delivered on time to enable it carry out its work. It is a welcome idea provided it is properly organized so that it can deliver the right goods and services to the people of the region.

Another fear is that the creation of the ministry may kick-start a fresh agitation from other ethnic groups like MASSOB, Arewa or even Afenifere?

They are free to do that. This is Nigeria and it is the prerogative of the Federal Government and the National Assembly to take a position. The Niger Delta produces the wealth that sustains Nigeria, the entire country is hooked up with the resources of the Niger Delta yet the place is living with poverty, it is like a tenth century village. Apart from a few capital cities you see, the entire area stinks in poverty. People feel humiliated and then government has come up to say 'let us have a ministry to deal with that'. It is not the first time you have that; even in the UK, there is a special ministry. So I think those kind of demands have to be realistic, otherwise they will just be part of political agitation for the sake of making agitation. For now, we should all support the ministry so that the people of the region can have relief.

What kind of individuals do you expect to man this ministry for it to achieve the goals for which it is being established?

The ministry is not just any other ministry. It is like a ministry where somebody who is not a medical doctor is made the minister of health and anybody can say 'you have the perm secretary there, you have the director, they can always help you'. In the case of the Niger Delta ministry, I believe that it is a ministry targeted at a problem, so whoever is going there must understand that problem. I would even go to the extent of saying he must have a track record of identification or demonstrated capability to identify with the problem of the region.

Then any other quality of leadership can follow. The person must have the ability to communicate with the stakeholders and be believed by the stakeholders and accepted. I think those are issues that must be put into consideration but, at the end of day, it is the prerogative of the president to decide who he wants to make the minister and I believe that the president is sensitive to the peculiarities of the zone and the need to show quick indicators, quick evidence of that commitment and will put the kind of person that will deliver.

You spoke about resource control earlier. Do you not think that that will cause tension in the countryand may even lead to its disintegration?

No. Resource control simply means that everybody should control his resources and pay taxes to the center. It is not unique, it used to be like that in Nigeria in the 1950s, regions controlled their resources; even at a point it was hundred percent. So, it was during the military period when you had total negation of federalism. If you say we are a federal nation, the federating units are the states. It is the states that have come together to create the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

And those states have a right to control the resources they produce. It is now left for the Federal Government to be creative and innovative on how to attract them to get back some of this money so that they can balance development by even supporting areas that do not have resources. It is more than oil, and, unfortunately, in Nigeria, we have been confused, when you say resource control, they say oil. Some states produce coal, some produce diamond, bitumen, clay, water. But remember also that those who called for resource control are also calling for constitutional amendment which includes a review of legislative and concurrent lists, that too many things are in the legislative list which the federal seems to control.

And a lot of those things can be shifted to the states. So resource control is just liberalising the resources, it is not only people in the Niger Delta that are demanding this. Like I told you, we have a memo from the Arewa Consultative Forum also calling for resource control and true federalism. So there is no need to say it will lead to disintegration of the country. Why? What we should do is to study other federal states and see how they do it.

You were part of the administration led by President Olusegun Obasanjo. How would you compare the strategies being used to tackle the Niger Delta problem by this administration with those of Obasanjo?

I think I will say the Yar'Adua administration is pulling together the various efforts of the Obasanjo regime and trying to push them further in one part rather than on several paths. Remember the Obasanjo administration created the NDDC as an interventionist agency but it was not well funded and also its functions were politicized. He visited the Ogoni land and tried to reconcile with that community.

He set up the Coastal State Initiative which to me was the most critical move of the Obasanjo administration in which he brought all the stakeholders to come and say what they are doing including ordering immediate employment in those areas where the Federal Government has competence, the police, the navy, army, airforce and several other reports. But what you see now is to say, look, we have had enough of these reports and moves to solve this problem, why don't we pull it all together in having one report and then break it down and tell us what we can do immediately, medium term, long term? Two, we are going to have a ministry that will ensure these reports are implemented. To me, it is a very positive approach by the president and it is the best at this moment.