Emmanuel Aziken
10 November 2008
(Page 2 of 3)
So, if you are confronted with that kind of problem the best thing to do is to opt for an alternative and I found PDP to be a better political party.
Better?
Yes. In terms of leadership, organizstion and structure of the political party, PDP is by far better than the ANPP. In terms of focus, direction, quality of leadership, in everything, PDP is better than ANPP. ANPP, to be honest with you, is a party that is fighting against itself. Today, you will hear one section of the party in support of the government of national unity, tomorrow you will hear another section of the party dissociating itself from the government of national unity to the extent that you wouldn't know who exactly is in charge. That is the kind of situation we have in ANPP.
But, it is insinuated that it is governors like you who instigated the crisis. That you didn't come out to support Buhari, especially in 2003?
No, we supported Buhari.
But you did not support him with your heart?
With everything we had. Maybe you don't know what happened in 2003. It was the governors in ANPP who gave Gen. Buhari massive support. He came newly and we found in him good qualities of leadership and we all decided to support him. To be honest with you, Buhari is a good leader and, up till tomorrow, I still believe that Buhari is a good leader, but, unfortunately, the party which is the vehicle which he should use to realise that ambition is not good because of the bad leadership.
Considering the good leadership qualities in him, what would you advise him to do?
Let him embrace PDP like some of us did. I am sure that if he comes to PDP, he will be welcomed.
How did you support him in 2003?
I supported him with everything. We mobilised all the people in the state, we mobilised resources, we moved around the whole country just as he did and all the ANPP governors gave their full support to Buhari in 2003. It was evident, even in the result of the election. In my state, he scored more than 75% of the total votes, same thing in Sokoto and Zamfara States. The evidence of massive support of ANPP governors was really apparent.
Have you heard it that even though you were in ANPP, your heart was really in PDP with your friend, former Vice-President Atiku Abubakar?
Friendship apart, I was an ANPP man to the core. It doesn't mean that if you were in ANPP that you could not have friends in PDP. My own politics is not like cutting relationships simply because of political differences, no. I still maintain that relationship, even if we fight during election. After election, we should reconcile and come to our normal relationship and that is exactly what we did with Vice-President Atiku Abubakar.
He was in my state and campaigned against my party, but, after the election, we continued our relationship as friends and, up till now, we are still friends and nothing can stop that friendship because our friendship predated politics. So, nothing should happen to spoil that relationship.
Is that why you joined him to eat the PDP victory cake in 2003?
I explained to the press (how I came about eating that victory cake with PDP) and I don't want to talk about the cake anymore.
But how sweet was the cake?
(Laughs) I don't want to talk about that PDP cake, I have spoken on it at length and I don't want to, it is forgone.
You are close to Atiku and Buhari. How would you assess their capacities for leadership?
It is not my responsibility to start assessing Atiku and Buhari. It is for the electorate to decide and time will come when they will do the assessment.
Is it true that Obasanjo used the EFCC to coerce you into joining the PDP?
No, no, no. My movement into PDP was voluntary and if there had been any element of coercion, I wouldn't have joined the PDP. I joined the PDP on my own volition, there was no compulsion whatsoever and I negotiated on my own terms, favourable terms for that matter, for both Sokoto and Kebbi before I went into PDP.
If there was any element of coercion, I wouldn't have sat down with the President, the presidential candidate, the party chairman, the chairman board of trustees, the secretary of the party to negotiate with them. I was never blackmailed by President Obasanjo on any issue.
I had an excellent relationship with him and virtually all the terms and conditions I gave, they agreed on them and that is why we joined. If they had not agreed, I would have remained in ANPP and I would have won my election.
It was opponents and adversaries that were suggesting that I was coerced, far from that. There is no truth in that assertion. We joined PDP on our own terms and conditions and virtually 85% of my supporters moved with me to PDP because we explained to them the conditions under which we should go in and they agreed.
Number one, we had one of our own who emerged as presidential candidate and he desired our support and we supported him.
Number two, we were fed up with the politics of opposition. From 1999 to 2007, we were in opposition and now we had opportunity to move into the centre and we felt that we should grab that opportunity to be in the centre stage where we can sit and decide for ourselves. This is one of the reasons why we joined PDP. Whatever else anybody tells you is his own kettle of fish.
What role did you play in negotiating Sokoto State into the PDP?
I was the prominent person in both the negotiation for Kebbi and Sokoto. The PDP was not in existence in both Kebbi and Sokoto, and if they wanted us to join the PDP, we should have the governorship slots. For us, the governorship slots were non-negotiable. We made it very clear. We negotiated for the Senate seats and, in Kebbi, we got three and, in Sokoto, I think we got two.
For the House of Representatives, we were generous enough and we gave the old PDP some seats and in the House of Assembly, in Kebbi, we took more than two-thirds, in Sokoto, I think they shared them. However, we thank God now, we are one political party and you hardly hear of old PDP or ANPP, and we are now forging ahead as one indivisible political party with a common sense of purpose.
You could have some disagreements here and there, but such disagreements are minor and I know that, with time, they will be forgotten, we will overcome them.
As a trained political scientist, how do you see the role of the opposition in the polity? Opposition plays a very important role in the polity. Without opposition, democracy will be weakened and the ruling party will just be governing without knowing when they make mistakes. The opposition is always there to wake the ruling party in cases of mistakes, of non performance, of anything, the opposition party is always there.
I can even advocate for a very strong opposition because it helps a lot in nurturing democracy, particularly in a developing country, otherwise, we could end up having one omnibus political party that may turn into a dictatorship if we have a weak opposition. So, we need a virile and strong opposition in order to sustain and nurture our democracy.
Would you then agree that you, Senator Aliero, have contributed to weakening the polity by collapsing the opposition in the Northwest into the PDP?
It doesn't mean that if we move into the PDP, that there would be no opposition. I remember the Action Congress is there, the ANPP is there. What do you talk about AD in 2003 when they massively decided to support the PDP, were they not weakening democracy? Is it our own movement that has weakened democracy?
If it happened before, should it happen again? Are you not worried that there is no opposition in the country?
Who told you that there is no opposition in the country? ANPP is there.
Is there opposition in Kebbi State?
We have opposition in Kebbi, sure. We have the ANPP, we have em, what do you call the other party?
You can't remember them, that means there are none!
What we did in Kebbi was what the people of Kebbi wanted. We moved them from opposition party into the mainstream politics, the right place where they should have been right from the beginning. What matters most is the interest of the people. There is no point for you to remain in the opposition when your people don't want it. Opposition for what?
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