Daily Independent (Lagos)
18 November 2008
interview
LEDUM MITEE, President of the Movement for the Survival of Ogoni People (MOSOP), was one of those arraigned in the murder case that culminated in the hanging of the Ogoni Nine, including Ken Saro-Wiwa. Unlike others tried, condemned and hanged on November 10, 1995, by the Sani Abacha regime, Mitee was discharged and acquitted.
Today, he leads the struggle Saro-Wiwa left behind, and is a middleman between the Nigerian state and the aggrieved Ogoni people.
In this encounter with SNR. REPORTER, RAFIU AJAKAYE, Mitee opens up on an array of national issues as they affect his people. These include the Niger Delta Technical Committee which he chairs, the formal exit of Shell from Ogoni and attempts to bring another company to exploit the oil, and requirements such a company must meet.
Excerpts:
It's now 13 years since the killing of Ken Saro-Wiwa and others. What has changed between then and now as far as the Ogoni are concerned?
Between then and now Nigeria has realised that it could no longer murder the ideals for which they stood. Because this ideal has blossomed even more than when they were alive. Between then and now, it has opened the door of two options for the country to follow: either to accept the ideals they stood for and do the right thing or continue to pretend that what they stood for can be ignored, and then we go to our peril. That is all I have to say.
What has happened to the struggle they left behind, what has happened to MOSOP Ken left behind and which laid down the workable and laudable strategy of non-violence?
Let me say that for the Ogoni people, we have had no cause to change our strategies. But, I must be honest enough to admit that the responses of the state to our own peaceful methods have unwittingly also attracted or reinforced the sour situations we have today in the Delta. I have had interactions with some of the militants and, even, when I started to preach to them to use the MOSOP option, they said they were surprised I am saying that. They asked me, what was the state's response to our own peaceful method? They said you people tried that and they killed you. So, they said they don't want to go through that process of being pacifist and get killed. So, there are some who have opted or have used it as a justification that non-violence only attracts violent reactions here. The second way is that the government's response has sometimes reinforced the violence option, in two respects:
A, it has done in a way that the more violent you are, the more attention you attract; so that itself reinforces violence.
B, sometimes if there is violence involving 10 people, or maybe five people are killed in a community, government's response is to take on the whole community. So, if you have a community of 5,000 people, because there is militancy involving say 100 people, you wipe out the whole community. Once that happens, you lose the co-operation of the entire community because they will feel you are not after the militants you were after them, and because those people have said they are for their cause, that is why you want to kill all of them. I think the system itself has reinforced violence (more) than they are doing there. That was why I said in my speech at the Martyrs' Day (November 10) that if one of the salutary things that have gladdened my heart was when FG (Federal Government) announced that Shell has to leave Ogoni because, for the first time, you are now saying that non-violence can have positive response from the authorities - which is profound because you now make non-violence look attractive, that it works. But you can encourage more people to follow that route without the price we paid. But, I don't think most of the responses have shown that.
It is significant there is no electricity in Ogoni land - although it is connected to the national grid - neither is there conducive classrooms for the pupils; there is no potable water, according to people. How true are these stories? How have you been coping?
You just needed to see all the things you have seen here, to be able to appreciate our situation. This is my own generator I am firing here. So, if I tell you anything you will feel that someone is trying to pull a spin. From here across my house, less than 200 metres from me, if you cross here, you will get to where every oil from most parts of the Niger Delta are pumped to Bonny, where every child knows that if I turn the valve on the opposite direction there will be no oil flowing in Bonny. We have lived with it for years. And you have not seen people turn it off, else there will be no oil in Bonny. The pipelines cross from here through to the creeks, and it has never been damaged. And, yet, in this village, there are 58 oil wells, and you cannot see things for yourself. And, if you look around, can you see electricity? Do they have water? If you go down there people can show you what looks like a tank; that is a Shell project terminated. They put a tank without pump, and the thing is up there. All they need do is take a picture of it and put it on their website and say this is our water project, but there is no water flowing there. If you go there you will see a health centre. It was built through community efforts in 1974; it has been commissioned by six different governors, our own project, because they don't have any project to commission. So, when any government comes they cover the plaque, repaint it and come to commission it. Shell has done the roofing three times, so the roof is not leaking. But they remove the roof, give the contract to their boys, paint and replace it, and then say this is our community project, but it was built by the community itself. When you see some of those things some of the times you ask yourself: what do you do about these things. Sometimes I ask from the community elders: why do you allow them to remove the roof that is not leaking. The elders would say, listen. You don't understand. Shell has not asked us what we want; what they did was giving us money for contractors; so we take. Any day they want something concrete done, they will ask us what we want. That is why you hear the multinationals say we spent money and is not buying us the favour we expect. So people are not as stupid as you think they pretend to be.
The FG has just ordered the exit of Shell from Ogoni, and we are also aware that it is also trying to bring in another oil company to the community. As leader of the struggle, what are your views?
The Ogoni people have introduced a whole lot of profound changes, not only in Nigeria but in the whole world. We have introduced two things - a concept that must be very clear for Nigeria and the whole world. All over the world, they have gotten it. There are two licences you need to operate: you have the legal licence and the social licence. If you go to Abuja and they give you what they called an oil bloc - I have said it that oil bloc is an insult on the psyche of the people; it is like the Berlin Conference where you share lands. You sit down somewhere and people now share my village out, including my house here and you say you have the oil bloc. You didn't ask me and you just went ahead and shared my father's farm and make millions (of naira) out of that. So, he gets the licence from there. What we in Ogoni have proved is that even the legal licence from Abuja might not necessarily be enough, you need the social licence. You need the social licence in the sense that the Ogoni people will say, yes, you have the legal licence, but we also must give you the licence to operate on our land. Because the Ogoni withdrew the social license from Shell, that is why it has not been able to operate.
But, again, the converse is also true, in some sense. If you have the social licence, if you talk with the Ogoni people and we say ok operate, the Federal Government will say that is illegal bunkering. That is why you have the phenomenon of illegal bunkering; those who secured social licence without legal licence from Abuja. So, the challenge for this country is to get a merger of both the social and the legal. And so, if government thinks that we have pushed out Shell in order to take something like Shell or less than Shell, that is a mistaken perception. You need to talk with us so that we can merge the social licence of the Ogoni people with the legal licence from Abuja.
In the case of Ogoni land, what are those basic requirements a company must bring to be able to operate?
Clearly, the Ogoni people have been talking, they are meeting and are coming out with a programme. But, if I may speak what I have heard, it is going to be difficult if a company coming to Ogoni does not do certain things, including but not limited to the following:
One, giving them some stake in the business they are doing.
Two, ensuring that their environment is protected in a way that you are not going to operate as though you can just defile it and get away with it.
That they can also get benefits in terms of social amenities, employments and, in fact, representations at the highest levels in those areas, that they will be taken as partners in the process. In other words, in return for certain things, we are going to get some benefits out of it. Put in one sentence, people should be able to say because you have this that accounts for why you are getting certain this. That is the bottom line of what the Ogoni are saying.
What about the contents of the Ogoni Bill of Rights, because those we spoke to insist that it is this bill or nothing?
Absolutely, I am one of the drafters of that document. So, the Bill of Rights encapsulates what I have told you in broad outlines. It says the Ogoni people demand as of right that adequate proportion of the resources of their land, which is oil and gas, must be set aside for Ogoni development - which is what I have been telling you. Those are the things the people are also saying to you in summary. What I did was expatiate more, expand it. If I say Ogoni Bill of Rights how many people have read it? That is why I am telling you this bill looks ahead.
They added this: that the Federal Government must apologise to the people of Ogoni
Absolutely!. You know, these things are necessary. You can see countries apologising for the slave trade of how many centuries ago. What the Ogoni suffered very few people understand. Yes, there are very few people who understand how much Ogoni suffered in this area. Even to be called Ogoni was dangerous. There are many Ogonis who are jobless today, some of them were journalists in the radio and TV stations. Playing an Ogoni music which are not political earns (earned) them the sack and detention. There was a time when to be called Ogoni, means that you were a rebel, and today many of our people became refugees - about 2,000 Ogoni sons and daughters now in the U.S. Many are scattered all over the world. You have dislocated families. Many families were separated and thousands cannot be traced. Many died and you cannot trace where they entered. There were times when people will come here, broke doors and started shooting people. What Ogonis went through was terrible; because we were pioneers of the struggle, the rest of the country stood askance as if it was just a small group of people. But no group of people, not even during the civil war, did any people suffer what the Ogoni went through in this area. And, for that reason, somebody must do something. What the government need do is look, we did it wrong, the government then got it wrong, and we are sorry for the mistakes of the past. That was why I was very angry that at a time when the state is trying to make things up Jeremiah Useni came up with his madness, and I ask myself whether Useni in his language means insanity.
Nigerians are divided over the need for another committee at this time of our history, given the experience of the past. As the chairman of the Niger Delta Technical Committee, how do you receive this argument?
We already have the committee. That is now a moot point, because the committee has been set up already.
What is the committee doing now?
Our works and findings are contained in the report to be submitted.
To what extent do you think a Niger Delta Ministry can address the issues at hand in the creeks?
It depends on what use is made of it. If the ministry is like any other ministry, what you get is garbage-in garbage-out. As I said, I am one of those who believe individuals can make a difference in a bad system. As I said earlier in my speech at the Martyrs Day, there are certain individuals who have shown in their areas that they can create some sense of direction - however much you disagree with certain things they do. And I have mentioned three institutions - I have mentioned FCT under El-Rufai, EFCC under Ribadu, and NAFDAC under Akunyili - who happens to be the only one remaining in her position.
Today, can you say those other institutions are still performing at the same level at which they were? Can they still be seen as transformational as they were? Forget whether you agreed or disagreed with some of the things they did. So these are the things; if it is a PDP thing, you will get PDP result.
Your critics believe you are now part of the PDP government (cuts in)
I am not.
Some people believe as an activist, you should not join the PDP government with a record of setting up committees only to drop the recommendations.
Join what government? I think many people don't understand this issue. If I understand (what) the government says, we want to see how we can solve this problem, and you who has been talking on this issue, those who know about these issues, come and tell us what you think we can do. And that is my role here. I am only chairman of that crowd that they say can you tell us what we can do?
On the Niger Delta alone, a host of committees and panels have worked out modules, but here we are today, battling with one crisis or the other. Will this committee make any difference?
That, again, is a moot point because we have passed that level. But, let me tell you that each of those committees dealt with tangent of problems. You know them. Start from Willinks Commission, which dealt with the issues of minorities. And these were ethnic minorities, from Northern ethnic minorities, Western minorities, and to the Eastern minorities. That the Niger Delta featured in it was because it was identified as one of the ethnic minorities. That commission came up with some specific issues on the Niger Delta, and it said two important things, in that report, that are very relevant today to the Niger Delta debates.
One, it said they were impressed with the views that they got that the problems of the minorities who are living in inhospitable terrains were such that people in the hinterlands, or even the government, did not understand, and that it is more expensive to deal with such problems. For instance, there are places today where you want to build roads. The first thing you do is clear up the land, you till the land before building the roads. In other parts of the country what you need do is just to open up the land. So, there are areas where you first graze the land before starting to build the roads. Those were the issues dealt with in the Willinks at that time.
The second thing Willinks Commission said was that don't oppress these people so much, it predicted that they would rebel because they have been put in the dark of development for so long. It said they will later rebel and you will need troops to put the situation under control. And that is where we are today. That was what the white man said in 1958. If you go to Ogomudia, it speaks from security point of view. Each of these groups dealt with issues at tangent. This is the first time they are saying bring all these things together, so we can move on.
You are no doubt an expert and insider as far as Niger Delta issues are concerned. If you are appointed Minister of Niger Delta, what would be your priorities?
I have not been appointed. I have not been offered.
That was why I said if...
That is theoretical now. Because if such a thing is offered me, I must consult with my people. First and foremost, I am MOSOP president, and the group will be the one to decide. MOSOP must decide, can we release you, because there is a level you get to in struggle, especially in Ogoni, every person believes they own you once you are a MOSOP president. So, you cannot take a decision on your own. So, there are a lot of ifs and ifs before I can answer your question.
I have two more questions. One: the NASS is embarking on constitution review, even as a school of thought insists the lawmakers have no power to give Nigerians a constitution. As a lawyer, where do you stand? The second question is, as an Ogoni man, if you are privileged to meet with members of the National Assembly what constitutional means would you say can be used to muddle through the Niger Delta, or ethnic minority crisis?
Let me answer the question this way. The Constitution as it operates now gives the NASS a role in constitutional amendment. I have argued in one paper I gave to the legislators that Nigeria should move to the stage of India. India has gotten to a stage where, as I said, the court there has developed a situation in which they have called on what they called basic structure of the constitution that the parliament does not have the power to amend such basic structures. The Supreme Court of India has so held. What they mean by that is that if the constitution has listed certain things as the basic structure, or basic things, like the term thing, even if you go to court they will tell you that even if all members of the parliament support such a thing, you cannot amend those basic things in the constitution. It is like saying members of the parliament can sit among themselves and decide that instead of democracy it should now be dictatorship. But then, House has some roles to play. I do not agree with the people who say they don't have power to amend the constitution. But I think the reason people are jittery is because of the calibre of people in the National Assembly.
Apart from that, what Nigerians are saying is that the Constitution is a fraud ab initio, given its introductory phrase 'We the people of Nigeria'. And this is why people are saying the country doesn't have a constitution and the need is to go back to the drawing board.
The phrase is wrong. It is a fraud. But Nigeria has a constitution. How it comes about is a different thing. To say that a constitution lies against itself does not mean you do not have a constitution. If you don't have constitution, what do you have then? You still have a constitution, but as I told you what you should say is that people should also create a synthesis of themselves. If there is a constitution review mechanism, let people know that from this village, things we do not like we can change. That was my point during my speech at the event. Once people know that their voice can count, you can get the ordinary people together and get things done. I said the only lesson Ogoni should learn from the Obama election is that once you can have the hope you can achieve anything, no matter your circumstances. But that more importantly, and I gave the instance of an Ogoni boy who left here as a refugee, unemployed for two years, and joined the Obama volunteers from which he has been elected as a state legislator in New Hampshire.
And I asked a question, if that boy were here, would he have been LG chairman without a godfather, without money in his pocket? Until Nigeria reaches a level where people know that their own votes can count, that they can make a difference, all these things will be naught.
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