Kampala — A Dutch company, Collar -IT, a multimillion project with potential of creating 20,000 jobs has hit a snag over environmental concerns David Mukholi and Moses Mugalu interviewed the investor Ronald Scheer , his wife Joan Kelly and environment officials. Below are excerpts

What are trying to invest in?

I used to work for a huge company - Hewlett and Compaq till 2002. I was responsible for setting up ICT in India, where it is a huge business. Thereafter, I started my own company and got ICT projects with MTN. This is when we considered investing in ICT. After research we saw the possibility of having at least a $1b ICT industry here in Uganda. And we think that's achievable by 2020. With investment in ICT you start slowly; simple business and later on get into software development, which is complicated. We planned to start with simple, archiving documents for Europe countries.

How many people do you hope to employ?

We hope to start the first project with 100 people.

Will they be Ugandans?

Yes, all Ugandans who have studied and have an ICT background. Though we don't know how everything will go in the future. At a certain point it will be possible to have 20,000 Ugandans employed both directly and indirectly. That number will be that big when we get Europe to accept software development in Uganda, meaning outsourcing our services.

Are you going to handle European records only?

Yes, it's purely export business. It will go from record handling to software development. This is the first of its kind in Uganda but also in East Africa and Africa. It is a potential possibility here in Uganda. We have got all the experience from India and other places which we want to bring to Uganda. The Dutch government was willing and supported us by granting 450,000 Euros (sh1.2b) to set up this business in Uganda, and our family has already invested 500,000 Euros (sh1.3b).

We got this plot in Kawuku because we thought in future when we go into software development a quiet place where people can be natural and near the water helps the creativity of their minds. After getting Uganda Investment Authority's (UIA) licence, we wanted to be sure there were no encumbrances on the land. We got our lawyer who checked, doubled-checked and double-checked the titles again. It is private mailo land and we got a 99-year lease.

Did UIA help you check the land?

They only advised us. To be more helpful the UIA should be one-stop shop. We got an investment licence from the UIA and they helped us with URA tax issues.

How much did the land cost?

Sh180m.

How big is it?

Half an acre, but it's strange that there are issues about such a small piece of land.

What issues?

After KCC's approval, we signed the contracts with the contractor and architect and construction work commenced. Then, there is land in front of the plot; which is sort of a no-man's land and we wanted to plant grass on it to bar intruders. To do this we had to fill forms at National Environment Management Authority (NEMA) to get approval. NEMA officials came with a lawyer and they didn't have any objections.

Did they approve it?

They didn't give us the approval, but they didn't see any objections to giving it to us.

At the site a NEMA official, Dick Lufafa, was talking to our lawyer and he didn't see any objections.

At the time I was planning to going to Holland for our wedding. During our two-month absence Joseph Ogwal of wetlands visited the site. He asked 'the contractors what they were doing here? And the architect explained. But then he sent us an improvement notice that we should fill up canals in front of the lake. Since we were away we didn't know about the notice.

We got the letter July 2 on our return and we saw what was happening. The contractors were building canals, which we didn't approve because it wasn't in the bill of quantities. We saw also the improvement notice, and then we had a meeting with NEMA officials at the site. The director of monitoring told us consult he didn't stop us at all.

The UIA Executive Director, Maggie Kigozi, sent a letter to the director of NEMA asking him for the way forward and why he had stopped us. The improvement notice was about the construction of the canals which we suspended. But in the end the whole project was stopped.

Were the canals encroaching on the wetland?

Yeah. Partly, but not the building. The canal was dug for access to the lake by the contractor without our permission. We are talking about maybe doing this as next phrase for the project.

What was the canal for?

It was supposed to be a passage for a small boat.

But you had not sought permission for it?

No, we're in the process with NEMA to get approval for that, but while we were away our architect went ahead, pre-empting it. He just ordered his graders to dig the canal. And NEMA shifted from the canals as being a big issue, and then they said: 'Okay, why can't we be sought out by these bazungu?'

What happened after that?

We were informed on July 15 that the contractors had been arrested and taken to Kabalagala Police Station so please come down, which we did because we felt responsible. At that point, I also got arrested and detained for six hours.

Had anybody asked you for money in order to help?

Not directly. But at the police station they indicated we're supposed to have given money to help us yeah as facilitation.

Who said that exactly?

The guy from wetlands who signed the letter, but I understand in Uganda the reason for getting these letters is for purposes of paying off people. But then when we went to Kigozi (UIA) things started to go out of control and the Dutch investment was in jeopardy.

I contacted ICT minister Dr. Ham Mulira, who is a great admirer of the project. I told him 'please help us, what do we do?' He called a meeting with all the parties concerned - KCC, NEMA, Kigozi During this meeting, things were very formal. Mulira said 'okay these people made a mistake because they didn't know they should have had Environment Impact Assessments (EIA)'.

Was it Mulira who suggested the EIA?

It was NEMA people who said: 'Oh! they never did the EIA', but we were never told about it earlier.

So it was at that point that you ordered an EIA

Immediately, the day after that meeting. On July 30 we had the full impact assessment.

What does the impact assessment say?

It says (on page 5) beyond 200 metres from outside the lakeshore. (Reads) The site is located towards the bottom of a gentle slope that adjoins the wetland. Papyrus vegetation extends to 192 metres from the lowest watermark of the lake. The building is, however, on dry land.

There's a problem of the distance from the lake which has been cited in these documents.

Yes, that's correct. But the EIA says we are not within the protected zone, we are 225 metres from the lake so it is a strange thing.

(Wife interrupts) because we didn't have permission, that's what we thought we were dealing with.

Did anybody alert you about the distance when you received the first notice?

No, we were away (Husband interjects) no wait, wait..., the first notice was received when our architect talked to Ogwal and had meetings with KCC. We got emails from him assuring us that everything was fine at that point.

(Wife continues) The email said that the construction of the building was going on, but that there were some issues. One issue was the building was still going on, we thought. Now, NEMA had come back and said 'you disobeyed our command', but we didn't because the construction of the canals had stopped.

Q: How were the canals going to contribute to this project?

We were going get people... it was a future thing because you need to know that we were flying in customers from Holland , from Europe, and you want to share their transition and take them to the lake. (Wife adds) It had nothing to do with the main building.

What next? Are you looking for an alternative site?

No, no

Why?

We have spent nearly 650,000 euros (sh1.7b) to date. So we have spent much more than planned because the stoppage of construction cost a lot of money. And I need to fly every month from Holland to Uganda only to appear in court.

(Wife) officially our project was supposed to be completed on the November 29.

So can we say that you have cancelled it?

No, no... We're now going to fight it in all directions. We have all the support from Ireland, from Holland It's all wrong. It is injustice so we are going to fight this. It is not ideal to go to another site. (Wife adds) The thing is that we sourced out this site for a number of reasons; besides beauty. Let's talk about practical things - its access to the airport is very logical. If we go to the industrial area where UIA want us to put us (near Coca-Cola site in Namanve), financially we can't because we don't make a lot of profit here. (Husband continues)

We are going to the High Court over the decision of NEMA executive director for misusing his power by stopping our investment.

The fact is we have got everything in the right order and in the right place. We know where we are. We know it's not a wetland, it's just so obvious in your face and now we've lost five months.

We have done so much and then there is one person within an organisation who reversed the decision of his own people. The inspectors of NEMA personally agreed with us that but they said they're afraid they cannot change the decision of their boss. I heard from someone else that the he was annoyed that private mailo land had been given to bazungu.

So what would you tell other European investors about Uganda?

We had a meeting with other people doing ICT they were saying 'we hear these stories, what's happening?" European people are raising red flags.

The Irish government sent a letter to Kigozi expressing worry about future investment and the lack of knowledge and information at UIA.

'We acted lawfully' - Environment officials

Joseph Ogwal, Monitoring Officer in Wetlands Management Department,

Why are blocking a major investment?

We ordered them to stop work because they didn't have any clearance although they said KCC had cleared them. We eventually discovered that the people who cleared them were from Makindye Division. But if you read the law - the National Environmental Act and River Banks Regulation - it's only the executive director of NEMA who can approve a project within a regulated zone of the lake. The regulated zone of a lake is 200m from the lowest water mark, and actually this development is falling within the regulated zone of lake Victoria

But they claim that they're 225 metres away

No, no..., recently we were forced to go and measure the distance in their presence after they took that matter to their ambassador. And they can testify to you that by the time we were reaching the 100 metre mark we had already finished the argument so that question of 200 metres and something is not true.

Are you saying they are within 100m of the lake's regulated zone?

Yes. I'm willing to go back and take the measurements just to clear the air. That Dutchman, Ronald, continued objecting to the measurements.

What was he objecting to?

He objected because of that so-called clearance from the KCC guys - for which they actually got a letter on April 23 and it was signed by someone called David Katende. When we ordered him to stop on May 20, nine days later when we returned to the site work was going so fast. That is why I issued an improvement notice, which is issued to a developer violating environmental law. After that we thought that they were going to comply stop, restore and improve the environment but they didn't. We had to report the case to the Police and the matter ended up in court. I once got a call from someone claiming to be their lawyer requesting that the matter be settled out of court. I referred him to my boss.

Then, two weeks ago before we went to court someone called from the DPP saying that those bazungu had approached him to call me to ask me to drop the case. I just told him 'no, for me I am a principle witness in that case and they're the accused if they want the case to be addressed out of court they should write to court requesting NEMA or Uganda to drop the case and settle it out of court'.

I was speaking freely with Ronald Sheer although his wife had started drama in court again saying this thing should not have reached this far, some people are witchhunting them

About claims that somebody asked for 'facilitation' that's not true. Me, as Ogwal, I came to know these people at the Police, then after that the lady tried to call me once or twice, I told her 'my mobile phone is my personal property if you want '

On those occasions she called, what did she tell you?

"She said 'can we meet and discuss how to handle this case?' Then I told her 'if you want to talk to any officer who is involved in this case, call on our office phone and that all our communication is documented', that was the last time she called me.

Paul Mafabi, Commissioner Wetlands Management Department

Is it true the investment was blocked because the owner failed to provide 'facilitation'?

It's not true. We don't demand facilitation. It is not possible and not in this office because we've got a cause. The reason why we're protecting wetlands is they're very important for this country, environment and livelihoods of the people.