Daily Independent (Lagos)
Rafiu Ajakaye
12 January 2009
interview
Yobe State Governor, MAMMAN ALI, is a diehard supporter of President Umaru Yar'Adua's Government of National Unity (GNU), despite the grumblings within the opposition All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP) on which platform he was elected. To him, the GNU deserves the support of all in the interest of the troubled nation. Ali, who is used to controversy says he is in no way disturbed by what anybody feels about him insofar as his actions are informed by the need to satisfy his people and creator.
During his stint as a senator, between 1999 and 2007, Ali was a party to some of the controversial issues at the National Assembly - from his frontal role in the attempt to impeach former President Olusegun Obasanjo, to the killing of the attempt by the latter to railroad lawmakers into amending the Constitution to facilitate his third term ambition.
Recently, Ali had a session with journalists in Damaturu, the state capital, during which he cleared the air on some of the controversial issues in Yobe and at the national level, particularly the immunity clause, GNU, and the crisis within the ANPP. He also took journalists through his dream for Yobe and the inspiration behind the multi-billion naira projects he has already executed.
Senior Reporter, RAFIU AJAKAYE, was there.
Excerpts:
Some of us are aware of the New Partnership for Africa Development. The long and short of the whole initiative by the African leaders was to have good governance. They came up with some ideas about political, economic and social governance. You just told us that you got surplus of N8 billion at the state level and N7 billion at the local government level. Many are interested in how you were able to achieve this...
There is the issue of ghost workers. There is also the issue of ghost contracts. When you take out the multiplying effect of these and serious prudence, these gave us what we have gained. Ghost worker is a very simple terminology. Everywhere you have ghost workers. What is a ghost contract? If I like your face or the Commissioner of Finance, etc., likes your face, he can give you a contract of maybe N500,000. As long as he is in that office, that N500,000 contract, the formula is infinity. You come today, come tomorrow. Your N500,000 is still there. You will just be receiving advance. They will give you N250,000 advance; you come tomorrow, you will get N300,000 advance. Next month you get N200,000, another month you get N100,000 advance. You will just be receiving advance until you are tired and say I think I'm okay now, I think you can give it to another person. So, these ghost contracts exist besides the ghost workers. The ghost workers try to resurrect. We can't say we have eliminated crime. No matter your intrigues and intelligence, you can never stamp out crime 100 per cent, but we have reduced it to a manageable level. These are the things we played with to save this much amount.
The state has brought forward N8 billion. What is the debt profile of the state? Secondly when we moved around, we were fascinated by your projects. Officials of the Ministry of Works and Housing are neck deep in the project and that is impressive. What are you doing to ensure that this programme outlives you. Lastly, you are an ANPP governor. From what is on the ground, you seem to be a model. But your political future is a bit worrisome given that your party is in crisis. If you are considered for a second term ticket, with your party in crisis, where will you perch?
ANPP! ANPP is not in crisis. In all situations of governance, weaklings find it difficult to succeed because with the clap of the hand, you will see them running; they will think that somebody is chasing them. While I was in the Senate, out of 109 senators, ANPP reduced to about 14 or 15 at the last count. And for your information, with that reduction, most of our guys even within the number had really changed camp. And the very few, for your information, challenged the third term (bid by former President Olusegun Obasanjo). And I remember, I was at the front burner. We challenged the third term and we reduced it to nothingness. So, if out of a literate group like the Senate, we can say no... One thing that is controlling my action is principle. You can decide to die for your principle, you can refuse to change because of your principle. It is not how old you are or how experienced you are, but how you have been cultured over life. I've been cultured to appreciate nothing more than my principle, which I've built over time. So, for this reason, I don't compare what I do to what the entire people do. First, I must look at it - between me and God, do I believe what I'm doing is just? I can assure you that once I believe it is just, the entire nation can decide to say it is not, but I will do it my own way.
I will give you another example. A lot of people praised Ghali Na'Abba (former Speaker of the House of Representatives) of being courageous, etc. Ghali Na'Abba could not push through a minimum vote of impeachment. But in the Senate, we got our 2/3. And, if you remember, I was the only one in the Senate that stood up that said I was given money to abandon the cause of that impeachment. I announced it on the floor, I announced the amount and I handed over the amount to the Clerk. I said I would continue this impeachment until the constitution is changed to say impeachment was not a part of the process. When I was to do that, I was told I would be alone, and I said yes, I was born alone. The issue of ANPP is in disaster or confusion is ... There are hijackers, if I can use that word, that want to play the king so that they can make something out of it. I respect our former presidential candidate, Buhari. Some people tried to use him to say he is going to Labour Party. I told him; and he told me that he was not going anywhere that he remains in the ANPP. The confusion is the issue of Government of National Unity. GNU did not start today; it started with Afenifere. Everybody knows that. Every opposition crumbled, and they are now resurrecting. They say they were not going to fight Obasanjo. They said no way, he is our own, whatever he does we will protect him. So he was protected. The entire party in the South-West just crumbled to PDP. Akinfenwa is a colleague; nobody would believe that he would go to PDP. But not on that note alone. During Shagari, the Ibo decided to join NPN because they believed that causing unity and then pushing political exigency forward is better than causing confusion. When they were joining NPN then, there were other groups in the North that refused to join NPN. But that is politics. Those people that are saying we shouldn't have joined this government, where were they when we challenged third term?
Now that a new government has come in, we must ensure that the new government stabilises. If the present government decides to do a third term, Mamman (Ali) will leave his governorship seat and go to Abuja and fight that you cannot go beyond two terms. For us to ensure the stability of political administration, we must put hands on deck to ensure any election that is ascribed as successful remains as successful until it finishes its tenure. The candidate himself has finished his court case, and he said he is still in ANPP. Yobe, for your information, insha Allah, till the kingdom come, will be in ANPP.
On the debt profile. We have zero debt profile. This administration has not collected one dime from any bank even for a moment since I came. No kobo from any bank. Our account is free for scrutiny. You can go for the state account, in Afribank. For the local government account, it is in First Bank.
The Director of Press said you operate free education here. When we look at the Yobe College and the boarding primary school, we begin to worry about what will happen in the next two, three years when these schools become fully populated. What is the financial implication? Can your state continue to bear it? The second question is on your university: Is it still in operation or has it been closed down?
This project cannot be changed. When you go to that school and say they should not go to the school... The students are not my children. The students are already admitted (for the secondary school). They have started their initial session at a temporary site in Kano. Why Kano? Because we are partnering with Turkish International College so that we can have that international outlook. Turkish International College will take care of administration and maintenance. In actual fact, when it fully takes off, they are going to pay Yobe government revenue. We are not going to put a kobo. The school will run itself. Number two. The students that we have picked will go down to the ward. The Turkish International College sets exams at the ward level and picks students from the ward to local government level. This is how they pick students. If somebody decides to close the school, it is him and the people. It is not with me. Whether it is possible or not, the people will tell him. This boarding primary school is not only for Damaturu. It is replicated in other local governments in the state. By the time almost 80 per cent of the people from the community in that school, and you come back tomorrow and say that you are King Solomon, that the school should close, it is not normal. I'm not going to put my name. InshAllah, I will not put anything after my name. It is just going to be primary school of this town, primary school of that town. I hope that with this principle, it will spread all over. Before you change it, you will go to high heaven.
Sustainability: Yes, in administration, there are two things. Worldwide, if you want to have government, you must have judiciary. Once there is no judiciary, there is no law and order, there is no government. You can only get judiciary through education. Directly related to judiciary is education. So, if the entire Yobe money will go for our children or you decide to buy luxury cars so that the children will not go to school, it is you and the students. They will be there, they will wait for you. They will be there at the polling units; they will be there when you drive on the streets; we will educate them ... People of Yobe now know what the government should do for them. At the end of our tenure, every Yobe person will know his right. That is the plan we have for sustainability.
On the question of the university. Our university is there on theoretical basis. What do I mean? We have a registered university, but we looked at it and I want to develop the university beyond what you saw at the secondary school levels in terms of infrastructure, academic and managerial staff. We are now handling prelim and working on the infrastructure.
How much is your internally-generated revenue? I believe that apart from the federal allocation, you must be making money elsewhere. Your government is into spring water production and you are also going into hotel business. The trend now is for government to move away from going into business, but encourage the private sector. What is your assurance that these your businesses will not fail?
The last question, I will start with. Why is government getting involved? Because we don't have people that will get involved. By the time we establish the businesses, we can now partner with private people to continue. Without having these things on ground, if you call somebody to Yobe, they may not come. We want to reach a level of development that we can encourage entrepreneurs to come in. By the time we finish this hotel, even if we invite you to manage the hotel, you will be willing. Without that Yobe College, if you call Turkish to come and establish Turkey College, they will not come. It is this infrastructure that has encouraged them to come. So, we are putting in all these to encourage entrepreneurs, then as a government, withdraw. Our internally generated revenue is poor. Maybe, one or two billion naira. And we are not getting any loan. The magic wand is the ability to manage our poverty. When you have too much money, you'll forget the level of your expenditure until you put your hand in the safe and you find nothing. Prudence is the key.
What is your view on the call for removal of immunity clause?
The call for the removal of immunity clause is all in the theoretical realm. The advantage of immunity is that a lot of riffraffs would want to drag the government backward. They know that they cannot remove a government. You know the best way to cause mutiny is to cause disaffection and confusion so that you will be in one litigation or the other. It is all distraction. So, if we are to forestall this type of distraction, I think immunity is important. What is immunity afterall? Whatever crime you commit you are going to meet it at your door step, at the end of your tenure. So, whether you have immunity or not, you are going to account for what you have done - today or tomorrow. As far as I'm concerned, it is a very loose thing. But going to the theoretical realm, it will be a tall order if you look at the formula of changing the constitution.
You spoke of the ANPP being as strong as the rock of Gibraltar. But discerning observers would notice that the battle you faced when you were just elected was not just from the opposition here but also within your party. Have you been able to paper the cracks. Next question is on the constitution review. While in the Senate for eight years, attempts were made to review the constitution but they failed. Now the constitution is now being reviewed. How critical is the issue of reviewing Nigerian Constitution. The third question has to do with that water (spring water). We recall that even when Yobe State was part of the old Borno State, tourism was taken seriously. Beyond bottling the spring water, we see it as a source of fund as tourism. The question specifically is what are your efforts to resuscitate tourism in Yobe State?
First on tourism. We are working hard on the tourism potentials in Yobe State. We have the durbar which we want to take to international level. If you noticed during the last Abuja Carnival, the Yobe horse ride took virtually all the medals on that. We hosted them here in Damaturu. After that, Nigerian government invited them to one of its ceremonies, and they went there and performed. We are trying to externalise the durbar. There are many more. We have the airstrip which was used during the world war. When Prince Charles and Lady Diana came, they used that airstrip. So, we are presently constructing the road leading to the airstrip and we are trying to improve the tourist potential of the water area of Yobe. That is as far as toursim goes.
As to the constitution review. Why did the two attempts fail? I'll give you examples. Governors can decide to hijack some few clauses. Just phone calls, without any trouble. Please forget this clause, forget that clause. It will collapse. If we now say there should be Afenifere in the constitution and there should be ACF in the constitution, the South-West governors will say there shouldn't be ACF in the constitution, and that part of the constitution will collapse. Maybe, the North-West or North-East governors will say there shouldn't be Afenifere in the constitution and that part will also collapse. And the hullabaloo you hear in the Senate will die. Arising from the intrigues of interests, both traditional and historical it will be virtually impossible pushing any constitution. The American Constitution is a small book you can put in your pocket and it has never gone beyond that. All the other things are based on the convention of the parliament. Within that period, there was donation from foreign bodies. That money could not even come to the National Assembly. Somewhere in the bureaucracy it was gone. The government now set up its own independent constitution review, they did the whole thing, and said take this review whether it will make meaning to what you are doing. That his own kitchen house review committee held - sole proprietor review committee. Not to talk of a review committee that will involve the House, the Senate and 36 states House of Assembly. It is a tall order.
Yes, on the cracks in the ANPP? Have you seen any crack? We have paper tigers in the Diaspora. But the good thing about it is that we don't have World Yobe Day in New York or ... You are either in Yobe or... If you are in the Diaspora, I don't think you are in Yobe. So, anybody that wants to be a politician in Yobe should come. We are even registering new members.
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