Lagos — How would you access the bi- lateral relationship between Nigeria and the Western Sahara and how it should be improved?

You know, Nigeria as far as we are concerned is very important. It is a key country within the context of relationship between the people of Africa. You know that I am representing here, a country which has become the last and the main colony and the final of Africa. Nigeria since the mid- eighties until now has been one of the outspoken and leading countries in Africa that supports the right of the people and challenge discrimination.

So, my vision about Nigeria is once again of the services and commitment of Nigeria's solidarity with the people also is a very important thing. I realise that this stand also does reflect the stand of the common Nigerian citizen, all political parties, the parliament, also the society. It is really something that goes with the consensus between the official stand of the government and also the feeling and support which you can see wherever you go in Nigeria. So, this is my impression about Nigeria.

You know the official stand of Nigeria in support to the Saharan struggle is something which you can understand within the principles which guide the foreign policy of Nigeria. So, by the end of the day, it is not something . . . it is not a present given to the people of Sahara, but it is working with the principle of the Nigerian foreign policy in support of the people and the right of the people to stop discrimination. We rely on the same line of support which Nigeria was giving to get the South African government liberated from the Apartheid.

So, Nigeria is a giant on the continent, so you have Nigeria higher at the position on the basis of the fight against discrimination. So, you have a very solid and a very reliable position which you can conform. The new Saharan Republic is a full- fledged member of the African Union. Nigeria is playing together with other African countries such as Tanzania, Ethiopia, Uganda, Namibia, Zambia, Mozambique and the list is so much more. They are playing a leading role to make sure that Saharan people like other African countries who unilaterally will preserve the territory and that the situation will remain like that.

What is the African Union's stand on the Western Sahara issue?

This is the same stand as the African Union, just to grant the Saharan people the right to decide. A referendum of public opinion should take place where generally the Saharan people will decide if they want to be Moroccans or Saharans. Now it is Morocco that doesn't agree with that approach because they know that the Saharan people will revolt for the independence of the Western Sahara.

So, it is not a denial of the people to self- determination that Morocco is doing in this regard. But parallel, Morocco is always putting a very oppressive policy violation of the basic human rights of the civilians in Western Sahara. This was reported by so many International Human Rights Organisations. The last one was Human Rights Watch in December where they stated that Morocco is violating the very basic rights of the civilians occupying the territories.

It is often for something which all African countries now and international communities have regard that the UN mission in the territory must be responsible for monitoring the human rights in the occupied parts but even the part which is under the Saharan government control.

We welcome the UN to be responsible for human rights on our part which is on the Moroccan occupation. But it is exactly the same thing with Morocco cancelling the Referendum and denying that to take place that also set in the UN from being responsible for their human rights, which is very contradictory. Yes, it is true that these people are Moroccans and they want to be Moroccans while you don't give them the right to express their attachment to their Moroccanity.

If you are sure that you didn't commit any human rights abuses in the occupied part of the Sahara, why don't you open it freely and let the UN to supervise the international human rights. So, it is very contradictory that we are saying as Saharans that a referendum must take place and let the Saharans choose if they want to be Moroccans. It is a wider choice. Our mission stopped at the point where the Saharans will be generally granted the right to democratically choose and decide on the final state of the territory. In deciding the result of the outcome of the referendum, we'll accept whatsoever the referendum says.

But if the Moroccans do not want the referendum to take place, it means that they do not want the UN to monitor the human rights situation there. So, the situation there is very complex. You see, it is not only the human rights abuses; it is not only the denial of the referendum to take place but also the wall which is dividing Western Sahara in two parts; you know, dividing the families to miss each other.

You know, the longest wall in the history is more than 2700 kilometres and it is I mean 6 miles from Iran and everything. It is a sort of invading moral issues on the body of that group launching international campaign going around in the world, so it is a very complex story. Now, to the international campaign going on which is very successful so far to the present moral custom in any economic deal with any international company because according to the international law, the group is a non- self governed interim . . . But the natural resources must not be exploited unless the referendum is organised and their company is very successful so far. So, it is a very complex situation.

To what extent is this development affecting the economy of the people?

It has affected it adversely, unfortunately in three basic ways. The livelihood of the ordinary people was largely affected by the conflict. Some companies might say that the situation normalised because rearing a situation is not easy as it was with the UN mission deployed there. So, you can't take risks of making a major investment on any one of the sides because you don't know what tomorrow will be or produce.

That is a big problem now for the nomadic people; you know the economy is based on raising the camel, so they can't go on with the same activity because it is full of money. So, on a daily basis, you get people pleading and this so many enjoy the most or the one which is presently lucrative is the British Landmines Action. We have got big associations there in the territory trying to raise awareness among the civilians about the vision of working practically on the removal of the land mines.

On the other hand, I remember Morocco invaded the territory in 1975. Military planes bombarded people when they were trying to escape from the invasion so this part of the Saharan population is settled in a camp on the border with Nigeria. Those camps are now being administered by the Saharan government. In fact, the people are living mainly on international humanitarian assistance you see, and when you go into the territory, more than 360,000 Moroccan settlers inhabited the territory after the invasion.

That is an act of voracious discrimination. In the case of jobs, people who occupy the big posts in the administration and the civil service are Moroccans and not the Saharans. So, people are really suffering and the consequences making almost everywhere in their lives unbearable. Honestly speaking, the Western Sahara issue is the most explicit case of this clash between the approach of legality, international laws, real politics and de- facto approach from the other part.

We agree that the referendum must take place. The UN mission was deployed in the territory to organise that referendum. The essence of the approach was the referendum against discrimination. When they issued the list of voters, Morocco departed or decided to step back because they know they will loose that referendum. Now, the conflict is dragging for a long time because Morocco is in the Security Council. There is no strong will to impose something on Morocco that is a big problem. Morocco got a very strong alley in the Supreme Military and Security Council which is bad.

For the Security Council to uphold whatever approach which will lead to impose something on Morocco, take from the issue of human right. It's not simple. I'm proud to be known as one of the founding liaison of this human culture of democracy and human right. Last year, there was an assembly in the UN Security Council to partner in relation with giving response and priorities to the United Nations to monitor the human right situation of the territory.

Such Ambassadors still haven't enforced anything which will ban Morocco. That's the reason why Morocco is managing to carry on with the issue as it is. So for the international public opinion, it's a real challenge because it is a matter for international legality and law.

Morocco is occupying part of the territory but very strongly allies such as France and relatively sometimes United States of America but we are more than sure that at the end of the day, legality will prevail and that the voice of the people, the ordinary people and the just call of the ordinary people will prevail. That's why we care for to end our struggle now there is a cease fire, but nobody can guarantee for Morocco or the UN.

Saharan government will keep all their hands tight forever because that's something we can't tolerate. We can't even control our public opinion because we've got the youth which on a daily basis challenging the political leadership. So how can we continue to accept the situation like this, we can control them for one, two, three years but we can't control them forever.

(Showing from a picture) You see Moroccans and you see this young man was almost burnt alive as the occupant of the territory. This lady was granted bail last November in the United States. She was beaten by the Moroccans in a public square. This lady is a student in Marsalis University and she lost her eyes by the Moroccans and you can see all these people.

We have got a very interesting issue about the state. The foremost thing is that any approach must respect the right of sex discrimination of the Saharan people. Sometimes, they might privately take a policy approach as they have to take into consideration Morocco; you know they have interest in. But, you know it seems what public opinion in Spain is that there is a consensus across all political formation about solidarity in the Saharan people.

There is true saying that you might not find a church but you'll find a community of solidarity in the Saharan people. But that's a public opinion slightly, a difference with the new government. For the new government, I cant say that the right of sex discrimination but its an approach which is not that clear when it comes to support the traditional approach to understand what the Saharan self- determination means because for us, the right of self- determination means giving freely democratically and giving the people the right to choose between some option and not to impose something on them. Now, Morocco set up a plan for autonomy in the territory under the Moroccan sovereignty.

We told them we don't have a problem with the autonomy, that it must be an additional option between the people and that you can't impose it on the people. Let the people choose between autonomy, total integration to Morocco and total independence for everyone but you come and impose something on them and you say no, that's not what they are. If you want to accept it, its fine but you can't settle conflict that way.

Also for instance, often our missing people that have been abducted by the Moroccan authorities since the beginning of the conflict; some of them journalists, teachers, ordinary people, nobody knows anything about their whereabouts. So there is a national campaign going on to get information about them. In this case, you see the condition which our political prisoners are in the Moroccan prisons.

So far, what is the stand of the countries of the Arab World on the matter?

The Arab world stand is just the easiest in the continent. They maintain that since the matter is in the hands of the UN and African Union, that there seems to be nothing they will do about it. That's a very easy position. But we do believe that among the Arab public opinion, there is a gradual increase of awareness and solidarity with the people of the Sahara in Jordan, Syria, and Caper, Libya. But the formal stand of the Arab league is that the issue of Western Saharan land is in the hands of the UN and the AU.

What has been the stand of France and President Sarkozy in this regard since they have aware of the Western Sahara plight for some time now?

That's a question I think will be much more addressed to the French government. But if you want me to comment on that issue, it's very astonishing, very strange for us to live in the Sahara and to try to understand why France is adopting such policy. Even for the United States of America during Bush's administration, they were explicitly on the side of Morocco. We can understand the promotion of democracy but they are at the same time trying to violate the basic democratic right which is the right of self- determination. It's very contradictory.

So what is going on is not something new. But since the beginning of the conflict until now, the French will blindly ally with the Moroccans' approach. We do think that since the new President Sarkosy, they might change because when Jacque Chirac was President of France, there was emotional dimension of the country's stand. Sometimes, he would sound very harsh about the issue and even sometimes, just taking the phone and calling some leaders and try to convince them to recognise the Sahara Republic. That is something only Chirac can do. Sarkosy will never do that. He might go with the French format, the approach to the complain in the Western Sahara at the formal level but Sarkosy will never get that emotional. I think he might be more sensitive to the issue of human rights more than Chirac. Anyway, we are very hopeful about President Sarkosy.