Davidson Njoku
1 July 2009
interview
Lagos — Elder Statesman and one of Nigeria's foremost politicians, Ambassador Mathew Mbu opened up to DAVIDSON NJOKU on his stand on state creation, his ideal zonal structure, the agony of losing his two sons, Bakassi controversy, the cat - and - mouse game he played to win his wife's hand in marriage and how as Cabinet Minister at the age of 23 ,the then labour leader, Chief Micheal Imoudu dismissed him as "Baby Minister" and refused to shake his hand on the ground that he is too small for handshake.
There are lots more. It's an insightful exclusive. Excerpt:
YOU are passionate about the creation of Ogoja State. Why do you consider it imperative?
It is imperative because I feel we were cheated. We were left out of state creation exercise because of the lack of education among our people. The leadership at that time was inadequately informed of the development that goes with state creation. Our people strongly feel that Ogoja State will bring absolute development when created.
Ogoja is known to have produced an intimidating number of military and civilian chieftains. Can we still say that the clamour for Ogoja state is due to marginalization?
We lost our time by failing to hit the iron while it was still hot. If we had taken a step forward and demanded our own state as at right long before now,Ogoja State would have been a reality by now.There were 24 provinces in Nigeria of which Ogoja was among them. The provinces were created by the British for administrative purposes. Some of those provinces now constitute two states and Ogoja is still battling for a state. I was advocating for a provincial state comprised only of Ogoja to enable us to fully develop our culture and manpower.
State creation engenders rapid development of manpower. Look at Abakiliki and Afikpo that were walking about naked the other day - people who hardly went to school, they now have thousands of doctors, lawyers, engineers, just name it, just because they have their own state and operate their own educational institutions. The other time I event to Abakiliki, it was difficult to believe how rapidly the place have transformed. I told myself that if Ogoja have been able to have its own state and develop its own institutions, we would have been there by now through massive development of our manpower.
The way the national Assembly is dragging her fact over the issue of state creation, and given the fact that no civilian government in the country have been able to create a new state, are you optimistic that we can have new states in the present political dispensation?
There is nothing very special in the power of the military to create new states. It is a matter of political interest. Gowon created the 12 states to facilitate his war efforts against Biafra. So the National Assembly in the interest of the nation can create more states or amalgamate states together in the interest of the country and the future. The Assembly members should stop quarrelling and stop fighting themselves over committee chairmanship and face the issues the nation expect from them, amend the constitution and fulfill the demands of the electorates.
What is your ideal zonal structure for Nigeria?
There is nothing wrong in re-visiting Gowon's 12 states structure and moving on from there because ultimately, larger groups like the Economic Summit of the South South Forum is a very welcome thing. If we pull our resources together, we can then channel our resources more forcefully towards the basic needs of the populace in a manner that will most likely quicken the pace of development.
The South East is advocating that there should be equal number of states in each zone contrary to the present situation where the South East have five while the other zones have six and seven respectively. How do we reconcile this in view of the demand for more states by these other zones?
The lopsidedness resulted from the creation of Adamawa state or what is known as Sarduanu province. It is on this basis that we are also fighting for Ogoja State, so that the South South can also have seven states.
You became a cabinet minister at the age of 23, what in your view qualified you for this plum job at such tender age.
The Prime Minister,Alhaji Tafawa Balewa was impressed by my conscientiousness and enthusiasm as a Secretary of the NCNC. When he asked me my academic qualification and l told him it is intermediate, he told me that l am a very serious persons and that he will like to work me.
On being appointed a cabinet minister at the age of 23, my first portfolio was labour. The then labour leader, Chief Michael Imoudu dismissed me as "Baby Minister' and refused to shake my hands on the ground that I am too small for handshake. He was very popular in those days and told me bluntly that by my age, I should rather be in secondary school rather than been a cabinet minister, and that I am not old enough to shake his hands. But by the time I settled down in office, I did so much for labour that up till today they have remained grateful for my contribution to their development. There were many labour factions at that time, I brought them together through amalgamation and inspired them to unite into a congress and this gave birth to what is known today as Nigeria Labour Congress.
I introduced the statutory ordinance which is still effective in labour till today. It stipulates that injuries suffered by workers in the course of their official duty are subject to compensation.
How can one reconcile the situation in the first Republic when young people like you were given opportunity to occupy high political offices, and the present situation in which tired and retired aged people are being recycled in the corridors of power.
The reason is that they are selfish greedy. In our time, politics was played with openness and merit was the order of the day. We encouraged young people to come up and gave them the enablement to be their best.
Are there people you consider as role model and who inspired you to study law?
Certainly! Foremost among them is the late Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe. He was a brilliant scholar and orator. And all of us-the young ones following him were all inspired. We aspired to be as educated as him and to command the respect he commands whenever he speaks. The motto of Ziks Pilot newspaper, "Show the light and the people will find their way", gave us the light and that light impacted on all of us and showed us the way.
What is your recipe for lasting peace in the Niger Delta?
The solution is simple. They should put down their arms. Bombing and guerrilla war are never a lasting solution to any problem. They militants should put down their arms, embrace the amnesty granted them by Mr. President and then negotiate.
There is no need going on killing and inflicting more pain on the very people they claim to be fighting for. They militants should negotiate, thereby being able to extract the conditions for permanent peace in the Niger Delta. Such permanent peace can only be enthroned by authentic leaders of the Niger Delta and not the opportunists who take money from left, right and centre, those who chase with their hands and run with their heads should be avoided.
As the National Chairman of South South forum, what is the latest development in the forum?
I kept on telling them at the forum don't encourage these militants to go on doing what they are doing. It can only bring about chaos and the innocent ones will suffer. And I continue to advocate that since we have a good case in being neglected despite our producing over ninety per cent of the country's oil which is what sustains this country, our case should then rest on justice, equity and fair play. We should avoid abusing people, calling names.
We have a lot of loud-mouthed people that parade as South South leaders. When we went to the National Assembly to demand for 25 per cent oil derivation and the National Assembly said we can only get 18 per cent, I told my people; let's accept the 18 per cent from the existing 13 per cent. The loud mouths among them said no, it is 25 per cent or nothing. They organized a walk-out and went to the Press, believing that they can get whatever they want by making noise. In the end we lost everything including the additional 5 per cent, and had to fall back on the existing 13 per cent derivation. The additional 5 per cent would have been a lot of money, but we lost it outrightly.
What do you feel about the ceding of Bakassi peninsula to Cameroon?
Before we talk about the ceding of the Bakassi peninsula to Cameroon, let me tell you that by right and history, the entire Southern Cameroon ought to belong to Nigeria. We did not need to lose that territory for any reason. We lost terribly in the East by allowing Southern Cameroon to go and join Northern Cameroon. The area should have been one of the Eastern Nigerian States because it was administered by the same British government that administered Nigeria when the mandate of the League of Nations was given to the British.
As l am talking to you now, if you go to Southern Cameroun, you will see many of the indigenes bearing the same name, Mbu, as myself as well as other names that are peculiar to my people. Many of them are originally part and parcel of the Manfe's in my area and are similar to us in every way including dressing, culture and world view. The largest river in Southern Cameroon is known as Mbu River. So you can see what lam talking about. We shouldn't have allowed them to go but the Nigerian government did just that due to nonchalance. And today history is repeating itself and we have also allowed Bakassi to be taken away from us.
At no time was Bakassi Peninsula - the estuary of Bakassi, a no man's land. It has always been occupied by the Efiks and a treaty between the Queen of England and the Obong of Calabar confirmed this. The king of the Efiks, the Obong, was the king of the Bakassi. Therefore when Cameroon decided to challenge us over the ownership of Bakassi, we should never have gone to court. We are in possession and in occupation, what we could have done is to defend the territory against any physical encroachment.
Secondly, we went to court blindly. The statute of the International Court of Justice suffices in optional clause 36. If we have decided not to abide by the decision of that court, such decision could not have been binding on us, whether by ruling or advisory. I can spend a whole day giving you instances where affected nations reneged on the on the ruling of the ICJ and nothing happened. America reneged over Honduras, Panama, and until today all the judgments have been overlooked by US. What of Israel and the Palestinian question, till today Israel ignored the rulings, insisting that it is only Israel that can interpret what is good for Israel. There was the case of Britain and Iran in which Iran have ignored a world court ruling since 1951.
But Nigeria jumped at the judgment of the court and accepted it without a second thought even though the court said under statute 61 that you can challenge our judgment by appealing against it within six months. Again under statute 60 of this same court, sub section 1,2,3,4,5, we have reliefs that we could have sought to used against that judgment. But our man ran to America and signed the so-called Green Tree agreement. Why must he do so when the court itself said that we can appeal against their judgment within ten years. The question is why must our President be in too much hurry to ratify the court's judgment and hand over Bakassi to Cameroon.
Secondly, the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria provides that for any part of Nigeria to be ceded to another country, two-third of the votes of the National Assembly must be obtained. Why did our former President, Olusegun Obasanjo not have the patience to follow due process in handing Bakassi to Cameroon. He said he wrote to the National Assembly, but the procedures are thoroughly spelt out and he can't claim to be ignorant of those constitutional provisions.. The National Assembly ought to debate the decision exhaustively and vote on it. Even if they agree to cede the peninsula, such agreement cannot become law until it is approved by at least two-third of at all the state House of Assembly in the country.
Does Obasanjo hastiness in ceding Bakassi to Cameroun have anything to do with the Nigerian civil war?
The truth is that Gowon signed away Bakassi to President Ahmadu Awdgo over Cocktail in 1975. It was a military era and the constitution have been suspended but I wrote an extensive position paper on it, telling Gowon that the action is improper. That was how we gave Bakassi away and Cameroun used the agreement against us during the court processes.
What do you consider the highpoint of your political career?
I consider every office l find myself a highpoint and uses it the best of my ability to serve the nation selflessly and will continue to offer my services whole heartedly and selflessly.
What is your assessment of the Yar'Adua administration?
He has set a 7-point agenda for himself. Let him work on it and let people stop talking of second term and third term for him until the first term is successfully carried out. Let him concentrate on what he is voted in to do by Nigerians. At the end of the first term, people's assessment of his achievements will determine his political future.
How do you relax yourself?
I chat with friends, and when I get home I settle down with palm wine.
Which day do you consider the happiest in your life?
I felt highly elated when I was called to the English Bar. I was very young at that time it was a great dream come true.
Which day was your saddest?
The loss of my two sons was the saddest thing that has happened to me. You can see their photographs all over the room. One died in his sleep in London. I tried to wake him up but couldn't and I felt he's dead. It looked as if he was just taking a nap and nobody that saw him could believe that he is dead. The other one fell down here in Lagos, hit head on hard floor and sustained a serious injury that led to his death.
Tell us about your marriage.
I am very happily married. One of my friends was using me as a go-between to deliver messages to a lady he was wooing and who happened to be my wife's friend. It was in the process that I met her for the first time.. During our initial encounter, I remember she told me that I am very rude the way I talk to her. We eventually ended up as husband and wife and it has been a very happy marriage.
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