Daily Independent (Lagos)
Sam Akpe
6 July 2009
(Page 3 of 3)
Is it true that at a time the President was going to shake up the cabinet, other ministers came to see how you could present their cases to the President because they saw your closeness to him?
It didn't happen that way. I always wanted to give everybody his due respect. If anybody had a case or problem and I was aware of it, I would openly have to go and discuss it with the person as a colleague. I did it for three or five ministers who had issues that were coming up. If they were ready to open up and discuss, I would say: this is pending and this information is coming, and if you don't handle it carefully, it will end up with the President; it will end up in the pages of newspapers. If the minister was forthcoming and opened up on ways of mitigating, I would discuss with him. It was not my prerogative to keep anyone in office.
Who constitutes the orchestrated Katsina Mafia in this government?
There is nothing like Katsina Mafia. We have a President who is from Katsina. It is not unusual for him to have very close associates and aides that are from his immediate environment. How these aides and assistants operate and relate to the public is what is very critical and necessary. So, there isn't anything like that. I think there is a reasonable network of information to and from the President. It's just that people will tend to want to be a bit mischievous by labelling people. You know, once you are working for the President, you work for him with 110 per cent loyalty, commitment; your time, your energy, your capabilities. If it so happens that some people will have some prominence in the exercise of their duties and they so happen to be from the President's immediate environment, you have to realise that the President has been in office since 1999. Over the years, he must have worked with people that he can trust and can rely on and use for his backdoor channels.
Who exerts the greatest influence on Mr. President?
I think Mr. President himself, has had the greatest influence on himself. Everybody is an appendage, an aide, a supporter, a friend, well-wisher, a contributor. He has a few close friends, aides and associates, and definitely, they would obviously have some impact because if he sees them more often, it means he is relating to their views more often than the views of others.
What manner of man is Yar'Adua?
I think he is somebody who is very reserved. He is very calculating in speech and interaction. If he is not sure of the person, he listens and listens very much. He can give you all the time you need to get your points across, and once you get those points across, he can repeat almost word-for-word, exactly what you have said. You can't pin him down to take a decision; he has a streak in him that is very strong. Once he has made up his mind, he stands by what he wants to do. So, I saw somebody that did not breathe down the necks of his ministers. He allowed them a free hand.
The President is said to be too slow in taking decisions.
If you want to analyse this specifically, I don't expect the President to be standing before the public and be taking decisions because a lot of input comes in before a policy position is taken. A policy starts from the ministry. Once it leaves the ministry, it comes to the government as a council. Once it leaves the council, they have other aspects of security and national interest, before the President decides. What Nigerians want is to see the President in the public saying "okay, I have approved this, this will be done". As I said, he is deliberate and very methodical in his approach to things. One thing I know, he tries to protect his integrity; he doesn't want to defend his position on anything. By that reason, which we have to give him the benefit of the doubt, he wants to be thorough, precise, and sincere before he stands on a position. If I am to expose something, when a memo comes to Mr. President, he could actually ask three to four different groups of people to make comments on it, and by the time the thing goes to three or four people, it could probably take three months before it gets back to him. Everybody will assess, analyse and make his input. And he would call for a meeting where they would discuss the strengths, the weaknesses, the most acceptable to government and national interest. Then, he makes his point. So, somebody would say he sent this thing three months ago to the president; he has not taken a decision. It's because it is going through the normal machinery of decision-making. It is not a business enterprise where the chief executive will say 'approved', 'not approved'. He says he is following the rule of law, meaning that he has to be within constitutionality.
What greatest challenge does Yar'Adua face in governance?
This government has the challenge of making Nigeria work. I had a friend many years ago in the university. There was a debate on how to define a Nigerian. Everybody gave his own definition. One friend said his definition of a Nigerian is somebody who is very good at doing anything bad and somebody who is very bad at doing anything good. We thought that was so apt at that time (about 30 years ago). Now, Nigeria and whoever is in leadership has the challenge to change that, so that Nigerians would be very good at doing things that are good and very bad at doing anything bad.
Between Obasanjo and Yar'Adua, who has impressed you more?
They are two different human beings. Obasanjo was in the army. He is an engineer by training. He has so much experience. He had three different opportunities to lead this country. Yar'Adua is just doing it for the first time. If he comes back a second time or even a third time, probably you'll see his approach to things will be different because he would have understood the terrain better. Obasanjo, for his kind of person, is gregarious, strong, very witty, intelligent, hard-working; yet there were still times he made wrong decisions, or took decisions as a General, irrespective of the facts on ground. But Yar'Adua is a civilian and is more deliberate, and he said at the point of oath that he would respect the rule of law. So they have two different approaches. What matters is the result? I think both of them are achieving things at different levels, commensurate to their style of leadership.
Have we seen the end of Sanusi Daggash in politics?
Politics is a life-time endeavour. Even when I am 80 years old, as long as my faculties are in order, I should be able to have a voice and even support and deal with people as an elder. For now, I come from Borno State, a state that is run by the ANPP (All Nigeria Peoples Party). Presently, the PDP (Peoples Democratic Party) doesn't have a single representative at any level in the government of Sheriff. We won't be kidding ourselves to say that we are in a serious problem. We had problems in 2003 from the centre. We had in 2007. We had to even withdraw from the election of 2007 for the National Assembly. I was a candidate and we were forced to withdraw because of the treatment that was meted out to the candidate at that point in time. We still have a crisis in Borno State. How committed are we? Do we want change? Are we going to get the necessary support from the centre? This is anybody's guess. For now, I would want to say I have to use my senses, knowledge and faith in God to decide what the next step is. People think I'm running for Senate or governorship or whatever, it is really up to God.
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