Lagos — Hon. Adeyemi Ikuforiji has been the Speaker of Lagos State House of Assembly for the past four years. The lawmaker, who represents Epe Constituency 1, is the only one who is serving a second term as Speaker. In this interview with journalists he spoke on ten years of democracy in Nigeria and the Niger Delta crisis among other issues. 

Within ten years of Nigeria's uninterrupted democratic practice many things had happened. While some people think that the country has not made significant progress, others think otherwise. Where do you stand on this?

Like you put it that we have had ten years of uninterrupted democratic rule, I would want to modify it by referring to it as ten years of uninterrupted civilian rule. It is still not democracy because we are some miles away from the democratic post; but we will get there. I am one of those who believe that, yes, we have not done it properly; we have not done it right, but like I often say we are on the path; we are crawling, but we will get there. We could do it a lot better than we have done it in the last ten years, but there is no doubting the fact that we have made substantial progress.

The problem we have right now is not a problem of Hausas versus Igbo or Yoruba versus Kanuri. For now, that is gradually fading away. We now have the problem of the progressives and the non-progressives. Let me not call them any other name. And they cut across what you will call the ethnic barriers. I mean it has nothing to do with just the Hausas; or just the Igbos or just the Yorubas. They spread across the nation and I just believe that in this movement to entrench true democracy in the land, it is the duty of each and every one of us to fight for true democracy in Nigeria .

What do you think are signs of development in our democracy and secondly, how would you rate the performance of the progressives and the non-progressives in the country?

Well, I think the show shows itself. We are all Nigerians, we are living here; we all go around the country; we have been to the various states. So we know what some governors have done in their states, we know what the Federal Government is doing with the whole lot of us. We know what those who belong to which party is doing in their various states. And of course, you can easily see the big difference between those who are progressives and those who are not. I don't think I should start giving the statistics because they are well known to you than myself. But at least we are all Lagosians and we know what is going on in Lagos, that tells you where we stand as far as this issue is concerned.

There are complaints in some quarters that President Umaru Yar'Adua is too slow and that the military should take over, because they believe that the military administration is also cheaper to run. Do you share this view?

I sympathise with those that are making agitation, but at the same time I totally disagree with them. I still say it that the very best of the khaki boys would not match the worst of a civilian administration. When Marwa came here and he filled a few potholes on Ikorodu road, the whole lots of us in Lagos were shouting that this is an extraordinary administrator, just for filling few potholes along Ikorodu road. It was the military ruling us during that period, but we forget so easily as human being when Bola Ahmed Tinubu took over as Governor of Lagos State in 1999, two-third of our major bus stops and roads were covered by waste. Oshodi Oke, the three-lane road, two lanes was filled with waste. Also, everywhere were filled with potholes, there was no world economic crisis and that gave birth to other question of the expensive nature of our democracy. Yes, it is expensive, but if you say education is expensive then you should try ignorance.

Nothing good comes cheap and that fact remains that the military is a type of government, though there are not many people involved but only one man takes what a thousand men take today. What happened to the Gulf war windfall? How many journalists succeeded in talking about this and digging to the root of this and then survived? Have we forgotten so fast? As terrible anybody would talk of Obasanjo and you all know it Baba is not my cup of tea (laughs) as a civilian, an old khaki is in civilian dress, he was still able to manage his own windfall that when he was leaving, Nigeria was not in debt to any nation or any institution; and that when he was leaving, though, he may not have done what we wanted him to do, but at least we ended up with a reserve as much as twenty something billion dollars.

How can someone now tell me that we should go for a military administration because it is cheaper? How could it have been cheaper? So, I would totally disagree with those agitating for such but I know it is some level of frustration that leads to that. When you see what our governments have done across the nation, you are tempted to lose your temper; you are tempted to become so disillusioned with the system that you will call for any other thing. But if you remember very well what it was then, you will shudder. Please, let us just leave it, I know what we went through.

How would you assess the legislative arm of government in Nigeria within the last ten years?

I know that the legislature in Nigeria has not done perfectly well; I know that the legislature is still young and we have a long way to go to catch up with the advanced democracies. But we should not condemn the Nigerian legislature. There is no way a ten-year old kid can compete favourably with a 100-year old or even other arms of government in this country that are at least 95 years old, whether military or civilian, still the executive, the same thing is applicable to the judiciary, they have come a long way. But the legislature has been the abiku boy of the House and now that it is ten years old, we should encourage it and do everything to nurture it to maturity. The activities of the last few years have also indicated that there are signs that the legislature is growing and will grow. We do know that there are lots of trouble here and there, the question of sharing whatever comes to the legislature and issues of Ghana must go. But who are the ones that send the Ghana must go? It is the executives, so they are the ones corrupting the legislature. The executive believes that they can make use of you, because they have what to give out, not only in terms of brown envelopes but even when it comes to goodies that Mr. Governor or Mr. President is invited to this and they are doing this and that.

Of course, if your grandmother is celebrating 80th birthday and I manage to give you N25,000, I have done very well. But I am sure if you have access to the Governor, he is not likely to give N25,000. So at the end of the day, if there is any issue between the House and the Governor, you have your preferences. The challenges that the media throw at the legislature across the country, if you throw as much in the way of the executive, we would have had better governance in Nigeria. And of course many of them also have media outfits. That is not the case with the legislature. So when people come around and start bashing the legislature, I think we should be fair to the abiku guy who is only ten. Don't kill him at ten, let him grow and he would get there. If the executive gets it done properly and rightly, the legislature would even do it better. Because most of the governors across the country are not doing it the way it's supposed to be done, they corrupt the legislature.

In recent times, it is believed that there is a very wide gap between the rich and the poor. So sir, what do you think can be done to close this gap?

I think it is a lot simpler than what most of us think about. Who is rich who is poor? In as much as government is able to create an enabling environment for each and every one of us to live and follow his life ambition. In as much as the government is able to provide an environment where full employment is available, in as much as government is able to create an environment where education is accessible and possible for all those who are of the within the age bracket of different categories of education, in as much as there is security of lives and property, the number of the so called poor will drop drastically and the so called rich will be less noticeable in the society.

But if I live at Amukoko and the roads are bad and drainage almost inexistence, no electricity and the schools are not with desks and benches, all the children of my neighbours go to this school and every one had to trek through these terrible roads whenever it rains and when they return from work in the evening, there is no light for them to even enjoy the little that little things you get from the television to cushion the effect of hardship and I live among such people having a very beautiful house with three 100KVA generators on standby and I have my jeep that can rove through the bad roads without me feeling it that much and my children also have their own jeep which takes them to Corona, Green Spring Schools and the rest of them, every morning and bring them back in the evening. Of course, it is very clear to every one that, that is the rich man there. Now if the roads are good for all of us and the danfos whether the remaining ones we have now or the BRT buses could go through that thin area and you go in the evening and there is electricity, you are able to tune on your television and enjoy your programme, you will not notice the level of my affluence as much. It is as simple as that, so we could build the gap between the rich and the poor if the government gets serious across the country.

Let us come to Lagos State level. How do you feel leading a House where members of a particular political party is dominating nearly all the seats?

The truth remains that the Lagos State House of Assembly is not a one party House. We have the minority no matter how small it is. I am sure that if we have not been doing it right if we have not been forthright and people oriented, the three members that belonged to the other party would have given us a hell of a time. But I guess knowing that we are doing it properly and we are carrying the people along, they have no option than to also join the moving progressive train. Don't forget that in the fourth Assembly, it was exactly the same situation; there were three members of the All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP), the rest were Alliance for Democracy (AD). But the House was sharply divided and even the three ANPP members had to pitch tent with either of the two main groups that existed then. So the question here is what happened then and what is happening now? It is just the grace of God that today we have one united House that is devoted and committed to the progress of Lagos State and Lagosians.

What have been the contributions of the House within the last two years of this administration to the progress of the state?

I think it is a very straight forward thing. How much progress has been made in nearby states where the Houses are at war with the executives? Go across the nation, let's try to place the Lagos House and the relationship between the executive in Lagos and the legislature, place it side by side with what we have in the other states in the country, it becomes very clear the role that the Lagos legislature has played. Without the commitment and that resilient, perseverance of the legislature, there was no way the executive would have been able to get things done the way they have done it in the last two years. Whereas you will find legislatures across the country struggling it out with the executives. Over a year, we have grown to that point where we call for roundtable discussions when there are differences. It is not as if there are no differences, it is not as if we don't have point of discuss or disagreement, we do. But we have learnt to put the interests of the 18 million Lagosians who elected us to represent them over and above our personal or group interests and we know very well that the glory of it all is shared by everyone.