Jude Igbanoi
9 November 2009
interview
Lagos — The advent of democracy in 1999 was not, to the disappointment of many, accompanied with the desired transformation for the country. Has Nigeria as a nation lost its bearings? Has the dream of the founding fathers gone awry? In the face of the present challenges, does Nigeria still possess the potentials for greatness as envisaged at the dawn of independence?
JUDE IGBANOI spoke with Sir Olaniwun Ajayi last Thursday at his Isara, Ode Remo country home. He went down memory lane to share his apprehensions about the failing Nigerian state. The elder statesman and lawyer also spoke about his book Nigeria: Africa's failed asset? On Colonisation and its Aftermath on Nigeria which will presented to the public at MUSON Centre, Lagos on November 19
State of the nation and scoring the Yar'Adua administration
A lot has been said, very little has been done. Our President appears to me as someone who is not there! Nothing works. Looking at Mr. President you feel a sense of pity for him. It's as if he is not in charge. It is unfortunate for our great country that we are where we are. Yar'Adua has said so much but has done very little.
Disunity within the ranks of the Yoruba political class
Honestly we are truly not united. But what I find comforting is the fact that those who were part of the whole in Awolowo's time, those who were in the Action Group still remain at the centre. They may not be many, but they are there.
What has happened is like when you have raw metal in your hand. If you put the metal in fire, bring it out and put in on the anvil and begin to beat it, of course you'll have the dross coming out of it. I believe it is the dross of that whole that is going out.
Chief Awolowo himself predicted it, that in the course of time it will be a question of thesis and antithesis in Nigeria. He predicted that the best in UPN at the time and the best in NPN would get together and the worst in UPN and NPN would also get together. I believe that is what is going on now. Today you have in the PDP all that was in the NPN. Then of course, there are some military persons there and those who want easy money. They are there in the party without any purpose or a thought about the welfare and wellbeing of this country.
I was alarmed recently when ASUU people who were on strike expressed outrage that they were paid so little where members of the National Assembly were spending N145, 000 for lunch, per legislator! That to me is ridiculous! This is why you see so many people flocking to the National Assembly. They will come back to us and very soon.
On Corruption in government circles
It is an unfortunate situation. It all started with the military incursion into our political life in 1966. They came in and did a lot of evil! They destroyed all our institutions, education, and health, name it. They destroyed everything. The soldiers also destroyed our values. They destroyed our middle class. We are still living with the effects of that destruction.
Today we don't have anybody who is truly in charge as a true national. Nobody is prepared to say 'enough!' In our days things were not this way. I remember a minister in the Awolowo government who was fund of claiming outrageous travelling allowances. The Permanent Secretary at the time was a Briton. He reported the matter to Chief S.O. Adebo who was the Head of Service. Adebo got the details and reported to Awolowo. Awolowo as Premier called the minister and asked him to justify his bogus transport claims. He couldn't substantiate his claim that he was always travelling home. Awolowo told him that he travelled to his constituency and that he couldn't nurse his constituency on government funds. The minister was made to refund all the money. The monies were deducted from his salary by installment.
That was the kind of discipline we had in those days. You can see we don't have that now unfortunately. It's just unfortunate that patriotism is absent in our national life today. Very sad!
How Nigeria can bring back those glorious days
We have a problem there. The problem is that we are not preparing our young people for the future. This is because our sense of value is gone and no one cares. Our sense of public service is no longer there.
Our former President, Obasanjo, claimed he started due process. What did we gain by due process? Nothing. In fact we actually lost so much on account of the waivers that Obasanjo granted to contractors in the name of due process. Due process my foot!
Olabode George's conviction for corruption. Do we still have sacred cows?
Let us wait for a few more weeks and see what will happen to Bode George and his colleagues. I have this feeling that there may be attempts to free him and declare him a saint. I am not talking about appeal. I know they have already appealed. I also know they have applied for bail. But at the end of the day, you'll see what I am talking about.
But if what has just happened to him is allowed to remain so, well, we may have cause to say all hope is not lost on Nigeria's anti-corruption campaign. Bode George should be a test case. Again, if you consider what is happening in the country today, you'll see the Bode George case as a drop in a mighty ocean. So much more is going on. Corruption is eating deeper into every facet of Nigerian life.
Take a look at the Niger/Delta. A lot of money has gone into amnesty. But I say with boldness that the true Niger/Delta people don't want amnesty. They don't want anything by way of palliatives. That is why some of them are already complaining and saying, 'Perhaps we were deceived into this amnesty.'
What they want is true federalism. They want fiscal federalism. They want their children to go to good schools. They want space to do their fish farming and other agricultural endeavours. They want good roads and good health facilities. These are the things they want and there is a lot of money coming from their backyard. Any true indigene of Niger/Delta who travels to Abuja sheds tears as they see what the wealth that is gotten from their soil is used for. Their place is being degraded and despoiled.
Has Nigeria got its electoral process right towards 2011 exercise?
The way forward is to make public Justice Uwais' Committee's report and let Nigerians comment on its recommendations. Secondly, let the report go to the National Assembly so that an appropriate electoral law can be passed. The little we heard of the report so far is to the effect that most Nigerians are in support of the recommendations.
Many people forget easily that corruption in Nigeria starts from elections. A situation where the President who will contest in an election appoints INEC Chairman is so obvious that he will have a controlling influence. The English adage that 'He who pays the Piper dictates the tune' would be true in such a situation.
In the last gubernatorial elections, one of the contestants who was losing phoned his governor friend and told him, 'I am losing this race because of the pattern of voting.' His friend asked him 'Have you told Papa? Call Papa on phone now.' Within minutes the voting pattern in that place changed! He knew who to talk to. That is where corruption in Nigeria starts from.
Godfatherism in politics today
In our time we didn't know anything like Godfather in politics. It would have been a strange word.
We saw clearly what happened in Anambra State in the face-off between Dr. Chris Ngige and Chief Chris Uba. Chief Audu Ogbe wanted to settle the fight and took both of the feuding parties to Obasanjo in Aso Rock. When they couldn't find a solution the President said, 'Please go away!' Audu Ogbe insisted that the matter must be settled. They were called back and Uba started asking Ngige questions. He asked 'Did you take part in the election?' Ngige said no. 'Do you remember what it cost to win that election?' He said no. 'Do you know what the INEC Certificate of Return that was given to you cost? He also said no. Obasanjo just got up and said 'Both of you go away from here!' These are the kind of things that we have witnessed in the name of Godfatherism. Ngige got a Certificate of Return when he did not contest in any election.
We didn't have anything like Godfather or Godmother in our time. In our time the party would decide who would represent it in the National or Regional Assembly. Political office was purely in recognition of service to the party or to the nation. It wasn't just given to anybody.
Preparation for 2011 by the South-West states
It is possible to have a smooth sail towards 2011 in the South-West states, but it would depend on providence and not the political ingenuity of anybody. The foundation for a rough electioneering exercise in 2011 has already been laid.
I also do not see any true political party in Nigeria today. The only political party that I know of after Awolowo is Alliance for Democracy. When some people tried to create problems in AD we left and formed another one, the DPA. We went about it in the way a political party should be formed. There must be an ideology. There must a manifesto. There must be some form of contract between the political party and the electorate. We don't have that in PDP and it prides itself as the biggest party in Africa. They are also boasting that they will rule for 60 years. Well, PDP is not a political party.
The confusion you have in Ogun State was bound to happen. There are now two groups in the Ogun State House of Assembly today. There is the G15 that is against the governor and there is the G11 which is for the governor. Those in G15 have nobody to whom you can report them to. The one representing my constituency lives directly opposite me and I have not seen him more than twice since he got in there. The same thing is happening at the senatorial level. We don't know how these people got into these political positions. It is unfortunate that all those who have tried to mediate between the governor and the legislators have failed.
On crisis in the banking sector
What the CBN Governor has uncovered is quite terrible. So strange that these bank CEOs were granting loans without collaterals. They were granting loans in billions to personal staff, friends and family members. This is very unethical and unheard of in the banking profession. People may say whatever they like about the CBN Governor, but he has saved our banks.
The rot was disgusting. Can you imagine one of bank directors acquiring three aircraft? Three private jets! To do what? Managing Director borrowed money from the bank to build a house, rents the house to the bank and refuses to pay back the loan to the bank. How do you explain that kind of greed? I can't understand people who come out to say 'the CBN Governor did not follow due process!'
On his new book, Nigeria: Africa's Failed Asset? Where did Nigeria get it wrong?
I used to think that we went wrong as a nation. But I later realised that it wasn't we as Nigerians who went wrong or took wrong steps. The situation we are in today was created for us by the British. Unless you take the time to read my book, you'll not realise what went wrong.
Our post-independence leaders obviously made a few mistakes, but if the military had left us alone, we would have learnt from those mistakes and we would have evolved politically. But they came in and didn't do any better.
All said and done, these problems were created for us by the British. The British thought that Azikiwe, Awolowo, Ribadu or Sadauna could not be Prime Minister of Nigeria. So, they chose the man with the Golden Voice, Tafawa Balewa. They had him in mind all the while. Everything was all according to a script written by the British.
The North came to Ibadan for the General Conference in 1950 with a lot of demands. One was that they must have 50% of the seats in the Federal House of Representatives. They demanded that federal allocation should be calculated at per head, because they were more in number. They also demanded that the boundary should not be tampered with in any way. The rest of the country was alarmed. Two people, Chief Awokoya and Chief Arthur West were vehemently opposed to that. But at the end of the day the North had their way because they had the tacit support of the British. Of course the military came and killed many people. That was when the British realised the great error they committed. This is part of what we are suffering today.
Does Nigeria still have the potential of becoming a great nation?
I can't see that happening from the way the nation is presently constituted. Unless and until we realise that Nigeria is heterogeneous, multiethnic, multilingual and multicultural, we will not get there. The Constitution must reflect all these for us to move ahead as a nation. We must build the nation along the lines of six geopolitical zones.
This is what other countries have done - Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Russia and Belgium.
Nigeria must have a Sovereign National Conference at which we must draw up questions for ourselves. Should we continue the way we are now, or should we go our separate ways? Then we begin to discuss the modalities and basis for our staying together.
If we don't do this now, then we are left open to what happened in Russia and Yugoslavia. If it doesn't happen now it may happen later. We are not immune to what happened in Russia or Yugoslavia.
Life in retirement
I have retired from active legal practice. I have just finished my book. Apart from writing I do a lot of church work. I am involved in a lot of community work. We are presently building a Town Hall and the Oba's Palace. I take very active part in all these. That is what occupies me now in retirement.
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