Lagos — Bishop Leonard Umunna, General Overseer, Bible Life Church, in an interview session with newsmen identified failure of leadership as the greatest set-back Nigeria has suffered over the years, insisting that the glorification of evildoers has since set the nation on a collision course with God, hence the myriad of woes.

Bishop, how do you see the Nigerian nation of today?

The condition of our beloved father land is a thing to worry about. We seem to be marking time on one spot without any movement. I think Ghana and other smaller nations in Africa are leaving us behind. Year after year, we are still at the same point, even getting worse. But, given our human and material resources which the Almighty God has graciously endowed us with there is no reason why we must be where we are now. What is keeping us down is bad leadership, which is not helped by the level of corruption. If it were in some countries, it would not be so, but it seems Nigerians like it to be so. Something tells me that if urgent and drastic steps are not taken our children will still meet us where we are; but God forbid.

What is the way out of the problems?

We have not presented our "first eleven". We have also not presented the messiah that can help us. We have them among us but we have not let them have the position. We must change the constitution; we must do something about the cabals, the oligarchies who are hindering our growth. Whatever that is hindering our growth/progress must be attacked and removed.

How do we get this change if it cannot be bloody?

It must not necessarily be bloody. It can come through mass mobilization, through proper orientation via education. Education of the people, especially the youth- let them know what they are supposed to have and the difference between where they are now and what they could enjoy under good leadership, let them see the need to take the future in their own hands, let them shelve the I-don't-care-attitude; let them know how to move and what it will cost us. This will help them appreciate the need for a change. Some countries have achieved a better leadership without a drop of blood, we don't need bloodshed to achieve ours, but the populace must key into the programme and make their legitimate demands.

What is your reaction to the call on the President to resignation?

Those clamouring for his resignation want to score some political goals. Some people who have been dislodged are those clamouring for his resignation. Whether anybody likes it or not President Yar'Adua has achieved one or two things. Look at how a former Board chairman of Nigerian Ports Authority (NPA) was convicted and he is now in jail, whoever believed that? See how some bank chiefs were brought to book over corruption and he allowed the sanitization exercise to go on. Some people are not happy. I don't support that he should be stampeded out of office.

The only problem is that he failed to hand over to his vice. I do not support his not handing over as prescribed by the constitution, whatever is the reason. We should rather wish him quick recovery. The problem with Nigeria is that people always like to make a gain out of every bad situation. While the President is in far away Saudi Arabia some people in the guise of protecting his seat are feathering their own nests. We must always support right things. Those who say he should resign draw their support from the constitution while those on the opposing side seem to be doing so purely for selfish interest.

It is unfortunate we are in a country where corruption thrives endlessly. And our undoing is the way we exalt evil doers.

What is your take on the increasing rate of establishment of universities by churches?

Many of my brother Bishops are embarking on establishment of universities, and I ask, is that what we really need now, they said yes. I want to speak on the manner of admission we have and the purpose of such establishment. If it is to assist indigent church members, ok; but whereby children of the members whose money was used to build those universities cannot get admission because of high fees, then to me it does not serve a good purpose. Something tells me that it is purely for monetary gain. That is not what it should be. Moreover, the admission racketeering at the nation's universities is both unfortunate and worrisome. They have ethicized the admission process. They would want you to go back to your state for admission; quota system is no longer working. Well, on the issue of churches and universities, my answer is, let the economy improve, you will see that some charlatans will leave the pulpit.