When the new prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) was invited to sit by the journalists who came to interview her, she looked down and proclaimed, "The hot seat!" But the world's next top prosecutor - Gambian lawyer Fatou Bensouda - doesn't shy away from controversy.
Just the opposite, the mother of two boys has a history of tackling injustice head on, from Gambian criminals to heads of state. She served as a prosecutor in her native country's ministry of justice and also worked at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) before coming to the ICC as outgoing prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo's deputy.
On Friday, she takes his place as the chief prosecutor of the world's first permanent international criminal court. And her agenda is already full: she'll be prosecuting the court's first head of state, former Ivorian president Laurent Gbagbo, and overseeing seven cases and nine preliminary investigations.
Just days before her swearing-in for the nine-year post, she spoke with a group of foreign correspondents about her hopes, her obstacles and about shattering the glass ceiling.
What's the difference between prosecuting criminal cases at the national and international levels?
When you get to the international level, the scale is different. You're talking about hundreds and thousands of victims and perpetrators, about many killings and rapes at the same time... Also at the national level, prosecuting is not so difficult... [If] you want people arrested, you give orders and people are detained. You have access to your witnesses and the challenges of witness protection are not so great.
But when you come to the international level, these become huge challenges. Most of the time at the ICC, you're operating in situations of ongoing conflict. The security situation on the ground is sometimes impossible...and because the prosecutor is the office that deploys first to the field, there is this huge responsibility to ensure that those who we talk to are not exposed...
Isn't it frustrating to see people like al-Bashir out there and the ICC can't do anything?
I see the setting up of the ICC as a system in which member states resolved in 1998 to create this institution. But in making it effective, member states also have a big role to play and they undertook to play that role by signing and ratifying the Rome Statute. The ICC doesn't have a police force. But the police of 121 member states are the police of the ICC. The armies of these countries are the armies of the ICC...
There is a sense of frustration of course when we see the likes of Joseph Kony and Omar al-Bashir still out there... But our duty under the Rome Statute has been done. We were supposed to investigate, prosecute, issue arrest warrants and present evidence. And in all these cases we have done it...
What are the main challenges to fighting impunity in the world?
The issue with the ICC is that we're a judicial institution operating in a political environment. And this sometimes becomes a challenge. Because whatever move the ICC makes - whether we decide to move, whether we do not move, whether we charge someone below the line or very high up - there is always criticism.
So I think, apart from seeking cooperation, one of the major challenges we face is that we have to continue to perform our functions strictly within the law... I think if we do this and are very transparent about it, the credibility of the ICC will continue to grow.
Some people say this is an African court that now has an African prosecutor. What do you say?
I am an African and I am very proud of that... I'm not going to discount it or dismiss it. But I think it is not because I am an African that I was chosen for this position. I think my track record speaks for myself... I have been endorsed by the African Union [AU], but I am a prosecutor for 121 states parties and this is what I intend to be until the end of my mandate...
Do you think some of that criticism will die down now that there's an African prosecutor? And isn't the AU at odds with the ICC, telling its members not to cooperate with the court?
The problem with the AU is not to not cooperate with the court generally, but not to cooperate with the court with regards to Bashir... And we have to take note of what's happening with individual African states.
Over 90 percent of our requests for assistance go to African states, and they come back positive. Africa continues to engage with the ICC. I think one of the best examples you can find, even though we're having difficulties in that case, is the Kenya case. There are current presidential candidates who are coming before the ICC and appearing before judges voluntarily...
Whether this perception can change because there is an African prosecutor, I don't know. But contrary to what is being said, that the ICC is targeting Africa, the ICC is working for and with the victims of Africa... They are the ones who are suffering from all these very serious crimes...
What about criticisms that you're destabilizing situations, like in Kenya, by supporting one side?
There is a track record on the continent that...the opposite is true. In Uganda, with Joseph Kony, even though we have not been able to arrest him, I think the intervention of the ICC has contributed immensely to bringing peace to northern Uganda and to Uganda...
Likewise in Kenya. Our hope has always been that in the next elections, there wouldn't t be post-electoral, or even pre-electoral, violence. And so far, this is going in the direction we hoped.
In the Cote d'Ivoire, I think the ICC's intervention has played a big role... Laurence Gbagbo is our first case. There will be others.
How as a young girl did you decide to take up law?
...I was very concerned about the domestic abuse that I saw happening that I could not do anything about. I thought if I were older, probably I would be able to do something. It wasn't happening in my immediate family, but in Africa - in Gambia - you live in communities. And you see it.... And always there was this innate feeling in me saying this shouldn't happen... So for me, it was something I had to do.
Who were your greatest mentors?
My greatest mentor is my mum... I regret she's not around anymore to see all of this. But also I grew up looking up to certain people. I remember there was this lady lawyer always standing up...called Amie Bensouda, also Bensouda (you know these Bensouda men, they follow these lawyers!).
Also, I have my elder sister, Warrage, my half-sister actually, but I always say that we don't know who's half, who's full... So it's many people. The beauty in Africa is the community... Everyone feels they have this protection they have to give to you... I believe it makes you stronger.
It is important as an African to have girls see that there is a possibility that they can get to here. There's always the belief that there's only so much you can achieve coming from Africa and nothing more, like you've been given a handout and you should be happy.
My example shows that this is not true, that the sky is the limit. There's no glass ceiling for Africans, for all women actually...
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"THE WORDS I HEAR FROM THIS WOMAN IS SO DESINGENUOUS AS WE KNOW FROM AN INTELLECTUAL STAND POINT SHE WAS CHOSEN AS A TOKEN BLACK PERSON; IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE SHE ROSE ABOVE SHE WAS SELECTED BECAUSE THE WORD FROM AFRICA "RACISM ". THIS IS RESONATING WORLD WIDE. AL BASHIR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHY THE AU WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ICC"."RACISM IS SOMETHING THAT IS PARCTISED IN THE WEST DAILY, THEY ARE EVEN AGAIN TRYING IT IN AFRICA WITH PALESTINE. "WHAT DO YOU THINK THESE ARE NICE PEOPLE" DONT BE SILLY??? MOST OF AFRICAN LEADERS HAVE INFORMED AND INTELIGENT PEOPLE AROUND THEM". "WHEN WE SEE DOUBLE STANDARDS HYPOCRISY WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THIS COURT IS BEING USED TO SEE THAT COUNTRIES IN NATO THE WEST ARE KEPT OUT OF THE HEADLINES WITH THIER WAR CVRIMES AND ABUSE OF INTERNATIONAL LAWS DAILY". "THEY ARE KEEPING OUT OF THE LIME LIGHT WHILE THEY CONTIUE TO PREY ON THE WORLDS ECONMIES WITH THEIR PONZI SCHEMES AND SWINDLES FRAUDS, THINGS THAT THEY DO DAILY". "THE EARTH HAS NEVER BEEN AS CORUPT AS IT IS TODAY!!!!. "THE WEST IS BY FAR THE MOST COPRRUPTING INFLUINCE THAT HAS EVER PRESENTED ITSELF ON THE PLANET". EVERY SINGLE WESTERN COUNTRY IS RIDDLED WITH CORRUPTION THE USA IS BY FAR THE MOSTY CORRUPT NATION ON THE PLANET". "EVERY SINMGLE CONGRESS MAN SENATOR IS BEING CONTROLED BY SOME TYPE OF INTEREST OTHER THAN THE CONSTITUENCIES THEY REPRESENT. MONEY IS THE WORST AND BIGGEST CORRUPTOR ON THIS PALNET". "THE WEST HAS MADE IT SO EASY TO CORRUPT, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO DIG OR WORK TO CORRUPT THEY PRINT PAPER AND PRESTO MAGICO YOU ARE BOUGHT !!!". AFRICANS WHO HAVE BEEN BOUGHT AND SOLD BY THESE SAME WESTERN COUJNTRIES,WE HAVE HAD TO FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL PHYSICALY WE HAVE HAD TO PUT UP WITH TORTURE RAPE CHILD MOLESTATION KIDNAPPINGS MURDERS LYNCHINGS TARRING FEATHERIN STRETCHING OF LIMBS BY TREES OR BY MACHINES WE HAVE SUFFERD MENTALY AND PHYSICALLY AND OUR JOURNEY IS NOT OVER YET. WHEN THE LAST "TRUE KING OF ISRAEL WHO SAT IN AFRICA ETHIOPIA IN OUR DAYS HE WAS THE "KING HAILE SELASSIE 1 HE WAS A ROOT OF DAVID AND BROTHER OF JESUS". LET US GET IT STRAIGHT. WE ARE THE FIRST PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET WE ARE ALSO OF ISRAEL" AFRICANS ARE THE PEOPLE OF ADAAM AND EVE"." WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE "MOST HIGH GOD" IT WAS "HE" WHO GAVE US OUR WEALTH AND SELECTED FOR US THIS GREAT CONTIENT " FROM WHICH WE HAVE ATTTAINED ALL THESE RICHES. WHAT WE MUST NOT NEGLECT TO SAY IS THAT BECAUSE OF SLAVERY WE HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF OUR EDUCATION SO WE SEE THAT MANY OF OUR PEOPLE ARE NOT TAUGHT THE RIGHT THINGS AN ARE COMING FROM THE SAME SONG SHEET AS ORU ENSLAVERS. BEING APROUID AFRICAN DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CONSCIOUS OR WIZE AFRICAN!!!. SINCE WE WERE PUT OUT OF EUROPE BY FORCE AND ALL OUR WORKS HAS BEEN EITHER STOLEN OR CREDITED TO OTHERS THEWN THEY HAD THE NERVE TO ENSLAVE AND THEN COLONISE OUR CONTINENT WHERE OVER 100,000,000 MARTYRS ARE LAIN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ATLANTIC NTOP CONSIDERING HOW MANY ELSE WERE TORTURED MARTRYED IN THE WEST. THESE THINSG ARE NOT EASILY FORGOTTEN THEY HAVE MADE NO REPARATTIONS OTHER THAN JSUT FLOWERY SPEECHES AND WORDS. "THEY WITH THIER HYPOCRISY SPEAK WITH FORK TONGUE" THEY DO NOT PRACTRISE WHAT THEY PREACH. THEY THE WEST ARE NOT PRACTITIONERS OF THE ROME STATUE SO THERE ARE NOT AS MANY COUNTRIES BEHIND THIS STAUTE AS BEING CLAIMED. THERE ARE CERTAIN COUNTRIES THAT HAVE PERMANENT IMMUNITY AND SO THEY WILL CORRUPT AND CONTINUE TO MURDER AN COMMIOT WAR CRIMES WITH IMPUNITY SO THIS IS FALSE STARTER FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. WHAT EVER NOBLE INTENTIONS THIS LADY HAS SHE CAN NTO TELL THE US OR HER ALLIES THEY MUST CONFORM TO WOLD OR INTERNATIONAL LAWS SO ALREADY AGAIN THIS IS A PARTIAL COURT WITH ONLY LIMITED ABILITIES, THIS IS A BIG FACTOR. WHERE DOES THIS BENIFIT AFRICA?? WIZE INTELLECT SAYS IT DOES NOT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING AFRICA CAN DO IS STRENGTHEN THIER OWN POWERFUL COURT SYSTEMS WHERE THEY CAN ALSO PUNISH THE CRIMINAL. AFRICA IS NTO CORRUPT WE HAVE A SMALL MINORITY OF CORRUPTED PEOPLE WHO ABUSE THIER STAY IN POWEWR THEN ALLYU WITHTHE MOST POWERFUL AND CORRUPTED PEOPEL ON TEH PLANET TO EXTEND THIER STAY IN OFFICE. WE KNOW ALL THIS. PEOPLE HWO BECOE4M EDUCATED WILL NOT ALLOW FOR THESE PEOPEL TO TAKE CONTROL AND RIUN WILD WITH IMPUNITY. THE EDUCATED FO AFRICA WIL INDEED STRENGTHEN THIER OWN INSTITUTIONS TO ALLOW FOR US TO DEAL ACCORDINGLY WITH THESE CRIMINALS WHOM SO EVER THEY ARE WHETER THEY ARE FROM EUROPE OR AFRICVA. WE NEED TO HAVE ORU OWN IN PLACE WE CAN NOT TRY EUROPEAN IN AFRICA BECAUYSE THEY WILLS AY WELL YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TYPES OF SYSTEM TO TRY ME. SO WHY SHOUD WE ALLOW OUR SELVES TO BE DEPRIVED OF THESE PREVILEDGES." WE ARE NOT A STUPID NOR BACLKWARSD PEOPLE SHOULD WE BOW TO THIS HYPOCRTICAL KANGAROO COURT WE WOULD BE JSUT AS STUPID AS THEY THINK WE ARE". PUTTING A BLACK WOMAN IN THE COURT TO TRY BLACK MEN IS A VERY CLEVER MOVE ON THEIR BEHALF AS THEY TRIED TO USE JOYCE BANDA TO SPLIT THE AFRICAN UNION WITH THE UP COMMING AU SUMMIT. AFRICA IS FINDING ITS OWN WAY WE WORST O0F ALL DO NOT NEED TO HAVE A COURT SYSTEM IN EUROPE DESIGNED TO GIVE "AFRICANS JUSTICE". ARE WE STUPID?? DO WE NEED TO PUT OUR BROTHERS IN CHAINS TO CROSS OCEANS AS WE DIDIN THE TIMES OF SLAVERY TO SATISFY WHOM? THIS NOT BASED ON LOGIC OR PRACTICAL SENSE SHOULD THEY CHOOSE FOR US TO HAVE THESE SYTEMS THEN THEY SHOUDL COME INTO AFRICA OR GIVE MORE QUALIFED LAWYERS THE COURT S ABILUITY TO TRY THESE HIGH PROFILE CASES. WE DO NOT LACK INETLLIGENCE ,AS WE SEE THE NEW PROSECUTOR IS AFRICAN!!!!! EVEN THE MORE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE THESE SAME INSTITUTIONS ON THE AFRICAN CONTINENT. IF WE CAN HAVE A PROSECUTOR FROM AFRICA IN EUROPE THEN WE SHOULD HAVE THE SAME THING IN AFRICA IT WOUDL MAKE IT MORE EASIER FOR VICTIMS AND THERE WONT BE ANY TALK OF UNFAIR TRIALS. THERE IS NO SOLID ARGUMENT WHY WE CAN NOT ESTABLISH THESE SAME INSTITUTIONS IN AFRICA, THERE IS NO WIZER HEAD AT BAY. RIGHT NOW THE WHOLE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE WET IS COLAPSING THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM WIDE SPREAD CORRUPTION IN EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT WQE ARE SEEING NOTHING BIUT CORRUPTION. SHOULD WE BE NAIVE TO THINK THAT WITH ALL THIER MONEY THEIR IS NOT ABUSE THEN WE ARE VERY SILLY AND NOT TRULY ABLE TO LOOK AFTER SELF. RIGHTNOW WE ARE BEING FACED WITH NEE CONFLICTS ON THE CONTINENT AND WHAT IAM SEEING IS THAT AFRICANS DO NOT WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY THEY WANT TO CALL THE MOTHER OF CORRUPTION TO AID THEM TO DESTROY OTHERS SO THEYCAN LIVFE OFF THE BENIFIT IN POWER. IF AFRICASN WANT TO FIGHT EACH OTHER THEN THEY MUST FIGHT EACH OTHER DO NOT CALLA DNBRING THE OPPRESSORS IN TO TH3E CONTIENET. WE HAD THIS INTHE LAST CENTURY WE RID OF THEM NOW WE ARE TRYING TO REPLANT THEM IN AFRICA ARE YOU LOT STUPID OR JUST PLAIN DUNCE. ANY WHER YOU WANT TO GO IN THIS EARTH YOU TRUST "ALL MIGHTY GOD" AND YOU DO FOR SELF. THESE PEOLE WHOM YOU WANMT TO PUT THE CONTIENETS LIVES AT RISK FOR MONEY AND POWER WILLDECIVE YOU AND TURN ON YOU THEY ARE FORMER ENSLAVERS DON YOU GET THAT????AFRICA IS WEALTHY WE MUST STOP SELLIONMG ALL OPUR GOLD AND DIAMONDS AND USE IT TO STRENGTHEN THE CONTINENT WE NEED MORE EDUCATED PLAYERS ONTHE CONTINENT. WE NEED TO SEEK THE BRIGHTEST FROM VERY VILLAGE TOWN COMMUNTIY CITY AND PAY FOR THM TO OBTAIN ALL THE QUALIFICATIONS THAT ARE NEEDED FOR NATION VUILDING. WE MUST FIND THESE WORTHY FO MERIT AND INGRATIOATE THEM INTO OUR CONTINENETS QUEST FOR EMPOWERMENT. WE MUST RID OURSELVES OF THESE GREEDY UNEDUCATED FOOLS WHO TAKE OUR PEOPLE FOR A RIDE, CONNING DEFRAUDING THEM AND CHOOSING TO LEAD THE CONTINENT INTO DARK SPACES.WE MUST EDUCATE ALL OUR ONE BILLION PEOPLE. SHOUDL WE CHOOSE TO STAY IN THE ICC WEW MUST HOLD A VOTE INEVERY SINGLE COUNTRY. THERE CANT EB ANY BIG SIGNATURES B#FROM ANY MEMBEER STATE WITHOUT THE OVERWHELMING BACKING OF THE PEOPLE. WHY WOULD THE PEOPLE NOT 3WANT TO BUILD THEIR OWN WHICH IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE TO THE PEOPLE. WHAT WE SAW IN IVORY COAST WASW THE DIRECT REJECTION OF A LEGAL CONSTITUTIONAL COURT DENYING THE PEOPEL WHAT IT WAS THEY CHOSE TO OVERRIDE THEIR WISHES TO RTY ILLEGALY LAURENT GBAGBO SO HOW UNDER GODS SUN IS THSI COURT FAIR> IT WOUDL SEEM THAT THIS WOMAN WOULD BE THE ONE WHO WOULD TRY GBAGBO.DID SHE SEE GBAGBO AS A DICTATOR OR A PERSON WHO WAS ILLEGALY OVERTHROWN BY A TERRORIST NATO UN ORGANISATION WORKING IN CONJUCNTION WITH THIS VERY COURT. "WE SAW HOW THEY DECALRED GADAFFI AS WAR CRIMINAL, WHEN IT WAS THE OPPOSSITOON WHO WAS MURDERING AFRICANS ON THE BEHEST OF JEWS AND NATO. DO NOT GET THIS TWISTED, LOOK AT FACTS WESEE THAT THE JEWS ARE RACIST THEY ARE ALSO KILLERS THIEVES OPPRESSORS THEY ARE THE WORST FO THE WORST THEY WILL NEVER EVER STAND BEFORE A WAR CRIMES COURT IN EUROPE. "THEY INSTIGATE WAR DAILY THEY MURDER WITH IMPUNITY THEY ATTACK WITH IMPUNITY THEY ALONG ISDE THIER ALLIES ALL COONTRIBUTE EQUALY TO WAR CRIMES DAILY ON THE PLANET EACH AND EVERY DAY"."THIS WOMAN HAS NO POWER SO SHE NEEDS TO COME HOME TO AFRICA AND STRENGTHEN THE INSTITUIONS IN AFRICA HER TALENST ARE BEING WASTED IN EUROPE . SHE HAS NO POWER."THERE IS NONE WHO CAN PROVE ME WRONG" NONE NOT ONE!!!!!!!!!!