'My role is not to make Musisi and Lukwago friends, but they both must respect the law'

Michael Mubangizi speaks to Frank Tumwebaze, the new minister for the Presidency and Kampala Affairs. Tumwebaze has started his tenure by tackling the antagonistic working relationship between Kampala Capital City Authority Executive Director Jennifer Musisi and Lord Mayor Erias Lukwago, saying he would not side with either. He also wants Musisi to start attending council meetings and to form the physical infrastructure committee.

How has your reign so far been?

My three weeks of work here so far have been hectic. I am handling two portfolios with complex issues. I am trying to learn, but at the same time take quick decisions because some things need quick decisions.

KCCA was formed to improve service delivery and poor urban governance; has it delivered on that?

I am yet to carry out an independent review of city plans and actions under the authority [KCCA] but so far so good. Everybody can see the changes in the city, quite a number of roads have been repaired like Ntinda-Kiwatule, Bukoto-Kisaasi, Kalerwe - Tula, Kawempe-Mpererwe, Lumumba avenue (Wandegeya to Kyaggwe road), Kisenyi road [Namirembe road to Kafumbe Mukasa road] and Kisota road [Nakawa].

Major streets are lit at night... 2,700 lights have been installed. Most notable is the rise in local revenue collection. I am told now they have collected about Shs 40bn. We still have a long journey to walk. Kampala is Uganda's capital city; so, it should be compared to other cities like Johannesburg.

But the repaired roads are a drop in the ocean...

You may complain that more roads haven't been repaired but some major ones have been done. For instance, the traffic that Kiwatule-Ntinda road consumes is substantial. Besides, there are other works still going on. Remember KCCA is inheriting a totally collapsed infrastructure. You don't expect them to turn around the city in 11 months.

Eleven months later, KCCA still behaves like the old KCC in many ways - defying court orders, manhandling people, like when demolishing structures in Centenary park and the case of George Agaba whose guard shot people in Luzira.

There was no court order [on Centenary park] as far as I know. If people used excessive force, they should be penalized. But at the same time, Kampala people can't have their cake and eat it. You can't clamour for a clean, beautified city and yet you want the authority responsible for that to tread [too] carefully on issues of law enforcement.

You had people condemning KCCA for chasing away vendors but aren't we happy that pick-pocketing, [and] congestion have reduced on the streets? Yes, there could be excesses; those could be penalized.

You instructed the Executive Director to institute the Physical Planning committee, but you were silent on other non-functional committees.

We are moving step by step. That came across as the most urgent [issue] because we got petitions from investors who borrowed money to construct buildings but had no approved plans because of that indecisiveness at KCCA. My predecessor had written to [KCCA] to form that committee to approve people's plans but they hadn't.

Are there reasons for the delay to constitute that committee and others?

The argument I have heard informally is that some of the leaders in KCCA were confusing the two - the Physical Planning committee and the Metropolitan Planning [Authority]. I will find out why they are not constituted and I will take action. We are not going to allow simple technicalities or jostling for power among people to paralyze development in Kampala.

KCCA has been razing people's buildings in the absence of that committee; so, who has been deciding which building goes?

Partly, that's the justification for my actions; but at the same time KCCA couldn't allow illegal structures to come up. KCCA has an enforcement department. If you don't have an approved plan, what are you building? Besides, the Centenary park question had nothing to do with that committee. It wasn't a question of a plan pending approval; it was a question of an earlier contract that one party breached.

You have taken a neutral approach on Musisi Lukwago - you said their differences shouldn't affect service delivery. Do you have the blessings of President Museveni on that?

Why not? Why shouldn't he agree? I report to him.

I am appointed by the President. The President wants Kampala to move. I am actually happy the court where they [Musisi and Lukwago] were challenging each other's powers gave them advisory powers to go and sort themselves out.

The President believes Musisi is great and is only being frustrated by Lukwago. But you are condemning her for skipping KCCA meetings.

There is the role of the President, the role of the minister, the Lord Mayor, the Executive Director. There is no problem with the President appreciating what the executive director and her team have done. I have also highlighted their achievements. Me, I am a day-to-day actor and I work with the Lord Mayor and Musisi.

I am impartial in as far as their differences are concerned but I will not be impartial in making decisions in accordance with the law. If Musisi is right, I will support her, if Lukwago is right, I will say 'Musisi, that's not right.' The President is not the minister for Kampala - he doesn't know the nitty-gritty of Kampala.

My role is to listen to them and tell them that the law is supreme and that I will side with the law. We have met briefly over these issues and we are yet to meet again. If Lukwago says [Dr Kizza] Besigye is the President of this town, you will hear my condemnation. Obviously I'm not going to agree with Lukwago on Besigye going to markets to destroy people's businesses.

Your predecessors tried to reconcile Musisi and Lukwago but failed; what gives you hope that you will succeed?

But they didn't fail, that's why the city is moving.

They are getting more antagonistic, now they are in court...

And I'm not about to stop them from going to court. My agenda is not to make sure that Musisi and Lukwago are friends, my agenda is to make sure that each of them does what the law mandates them to do.

Luckily enough all of them are lawyers, they have gone to court and got the answer that sometimes you can't run administrative matters through litigation all the time. Actually court fell short of telling them, 'don't bother us with your issues in KCCA.'

They can work together even when they disagree. I don't have to be friends with everybody in cabinet but we work together.

The stakeholders, like the divisional mayors and councillors, accuse Musisi of centralizing powers and decision making.

It's not Musisi. It's the law. If there are issues with the law, maybe we can consider bringing up proposals for an amendment, not going against the individual in the chair. The centralisation that you are talking about was the main objective of the KCCA Act.

The Lord Mayor has written to the Katikkiro of Buganda indicating that KCCA intends to return all Buganda properties like markets, schools, health centres, currently run by KCCA. I haven't seen his letter but my immediate question is, what law empowered him to do that? If it's within the law, no problem; if it's illegal, it will remain illegal but I want to be sure that he did it because I haven't seen his letter.

How many presidential advisors do we have?

I am yet to know the number. It's the prerogative of the President to get people to help him.

Why does the President continue appointing advisors when the existing ones are not facilitated?

You may not need a vehicle to advise the President. If I am a retired vice chancellor like the late Ssenteza Kajubi and the President recognises my counsel on education... and appoints me to give part-time advice, do I need a vehicle? Or internet modem?

Actually, that tells you the kind of advisors we have, some are on retainer, others are on full-time and not all of them need vehicles.

There is duplication; you have two senior advisors on cultural matters and an advisor on cultural issues.

We will iron it out if they are there. We will try to agree a detailed job description for each one of them. What are you doing if you are in charge of cultural matters or cultural issues? (laughs) But of course I am not sure those exist.

The point is, we have to ensure that these advisors are well-tasked and there is accountability in terms of work output demanded from them such that the salaries they take give us value for money.

Press Secretary Tamale Mirundi says those are pensionable things/ jobs.

I don't know the context in which he made that remark. That's a personal opinion maybe. Not all of them meet him, they write reports and we consume these things together. That's why we are lucky to have a President who sleeps two or three hours and works almost 20 hours.

Isn't that to the detriment of his health?

Yes, but to the benefit of Ugandans.