Lobatse, Botswana — In October 2001, representatives of the government of the Democratic Republic of Congo and some of the rival rebel factions gathered in the Ethiopian capital, Addis Ababa, for the much-vaunted Inter-Congolese Dialogue. The facilitator was the former president of Botswana, Sir Ketumile Masire. But those preliminary peace talks in Addis collapsed. Four months after the breakdown, the Congolese are again scheduled to meet, this time at Sun City in South Africa from February 25. And, again, Sir Ketumile will be facilitating the dialogue. AllAfrica.coms Ofeibea Quist-Arcton was among a group of international journalists who went to meet Masire on his ostrich farm in Lobatse, Botswana; over lunch, they asked him about the prospects for the forthcoming round of Congo peace talks.
The Inter-Congolese Dialogue failed in Addis Ababa. It was meant to last 45 days but lasted barely 7 days. What went wrong? And what do you think will go right or wrong at the re-launched peace talks in Sun City in South Africa?
I think the Congolese didnt go to Addis really prepared to do business. I think now they are ready and I hope, therefore, the Sun City meeting has got a greater chance of success than the Addis Ababa meeting.
In what way do you say the Congolese were not ready?
Well, not all of them were prepared to discuss.
What do you mean by that?
I mean that some were not prepared to participate in the debate, in the dialogue.
Who are the 'they that you are referring to?
Various members of the Congolese delegations.
What about the blame that was put at your feet, that the facilitator hadnt organised properly, that there were some delegations that werent there who should have been there?
No. That is a pretext for finding reasons why people didnt take part.
I realised 10 days before the meeting took place that there was not going to be enough money to sustain us for 45 days.
I went to five components to tell them that, because there was not enough money, we were going to do two things: (a) we would reduce the delegations, instead of 62 to 15 and (b) we would not last there for 45 days, but only for a week.
So everybody who went to Addis went there with this full knowledge.
Is everything ready and in place for Sun City? How big are the delegations? Have the different Congolese factions agreed that they will send just those numbers? Do you have enough money?
So far, we dont quite have enough, but we hope by the time we hold the meeting we shall have enough.
How many delegations, how many members per delegation?
Members per delegation: the three belligerents have got 55 each. That is the government, the (rebel) RCD and the (rebel) MLC. But the civil society have a much higher number. Its going to be made even higher by the fact that were going to bring in Mayi Mayi. We are going to bring seven church leaders.
Do you feel that some of those taking part in the Inter-Congolese Dialogue arent that keen on peace, and want to prolong the conflict, because war is profitable?
Maybe. In Congo, its the embarrassment of riches. Its very unfortunate for the Congo, because other people are also looking with envy at the wealth of the country. And so everybody wants to see how he can ultimately have a share of the Congo.
Will the outcome of the presidential elections in Zimbabwe in March, and whoever wins, have any impact on the final outcome of the Inter-Congolese Dialogue?
I think it might, considering the extent to which Zimbabwe is involved in Congolese matters.
Have you discussed this issue with President Robert Mugabe, whom you know well?
I have made it a routine to brief all the SADC (Southern African Development Community) presidents, as well as President Museveni (of Uganda) and President Kagame (of Rwanda), because of their involvement in the Congo. On Congolese matters, I have visited President Mugabe quite a number of times.
What do you consider to be the main obstacle to constructive dialogue between the Congolese parties?
I think they all want to lead the country. When you talk to somebody, he politely listens and then you each go your own way and you never can be sure if he has taken you seriously or not.
You didnt have the confidence of the late Laurent Desire Kabila. It seems that you didnt get on. He didnt get on with you or you didnt get on with him, Im not sure which.
That was made public by the president and his foreign minister, that they didnt like me. So, I dont think I had anything to say against them.
What about Kabila the younger, Joseph Kabila? Do you have his confidence?
So far so good, we have always had very agreeable meetings together. Not that we necessarily agree on everything, but we discuss our differences and settle them amicably.
What about the other Congolese delegations? I have heard it said that Sir Ketumile Masire doesnt even speak French and questions such as 'Is he really on top of whats happening in the Congolese conflict?'.
They are right that I dont speak French, but they are wrong that I have had any problems dealing with the Congolese because of my lack of knowledge of French. We always have very competent interpreters, therefore the communication is always easy.
But personally, does it frustrate you that you cant perhaps just say something in French, so that the message goes through directly, without going through an interpreter?
Of course, anybody would feel, when there is a language he doesnt speak being spoken, everyone would wish that he could also participate in that language.
So, does this personally hamper you, that you cant understand conversations going on when Congolese people are more casual and perhaps not in the formal setting of a meeting? Theyre talking, but you cant follow?
I have found people very accommodating. When they are with me, they make sure they speak the language I will understand. If not, a translator is brought it in and there is easy communication. Of course when they talk about their cousins, their wives and their friends, sometimes they break into French which is only natural.
So, those who say its Quett Masires fault that the talks failed in Addis Ababa -
They couldnt be further from the truth. I deny that in the front of anybody. If you could bring everybody here to try to substantiate that, Im sure youll find that youll fail.
Do you think youll succeed in Sun City with the Inter-Congolese Dialogue. Are the Congolese ready, are you ready as the facilitator? Do you think that there is a will to succeed in resolving the conflict?
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I hope so, I hope so. Will is one of those things you cant measure in people by any instrument. Therefore, I guess they should feel they have gone such a long way that it is time they come to some arrangement.
Do you detect the will?
Yes, I do detect the will although I cannot say its the will which is in abundance in every one of the components.
So are you hopeful?
I am cautious to say yes because, when I went to Addis -- having consulted people before going to Addis - I was quite confident they realised we were cutting our suit according to our cloth, and that, therefore, we were going to have a successful one-week meeting with limited delegations.
But some people who got there decided otherwise.
What is the solution for the Congo conflict?
I very much hope that all Congolese realise the state in which the whole country is. The people, from the social point of view, the schoolchildren, the health of the people, the economy, everything. And therefore I hope they will seriously go into business when we meet in Sun City.
The solution is to agree on the future of the Congo. After all, what we thought were intractable problems, like the South African situation, people did make up their minds and did come to amicable solutions. So, why shouldnt the Congo? And theirs is not as complicated as the apartheid regime in South Africa.
So peace is achievable in Congo?
Of course, yes.
