Durban, South Africa — The killing, early this year, of Angola's long time rebel leader, Jonas Savimbi of Unita, opened the way for a ceasefire between the MPLA government's army and the rebels. Since then, Unita soldiers and their families have been gathering in 'quartering' areas as starving civilians formerly behind Unita lines are coming out of the bush in search of food and health care. Both groups are in desperate need. But harsh words have been exchanged this week between humanitarian agencies working in Angola. Medecins Sans Frontieres has accused both the government and other NGOs of reacting too slowly to the crisis, echoing earlier criticism, particularly of the government, for failing to facilitate the flow of aid. Last week in Durban, South Africa, Akwe Amosu spoke to Angola's Vice Minister of External Relations, Jorge Chikoti about the government's stance.
Why is there a perception abroad that you have been slow to seek support for the people coming into the quartering areas? I interviewed the UN secretary-general's special representative on children and armed conflict, Olara Otunnu, in mid-May and he said, "Everyone's waiting for a clear invitation from the Angolan government to indicate the kind of assistance that's needed. And I hope that will come very soon, it's very important that it should come soon." Why the delay?
Do you think that when you are ready you need a request? We've been working with the United Nations and the international community for a long time. People know what Angola needs. We have written to everybody so, even now, that issue is clear. We feel that their support is slow. I think that I have a personal understanding of the situation, which I will not say. I would rather stick to the general reasons.
But formally speaking, the aid agencies can't just deliver aid without being told "we want it", can they?
No, I think they can. The World Food Program has been distributing aid for a long time! And why is it that individual governments could do it? Why is it that the United States government did not wait for anything? The United States government is represented in Angola, they saw we needed tents, they saw we needed blankets, they took the blankets and they gave them to us.
We do coordinate at various levels which allow anyone who's been dealing with us to know and understand what we need.
Do you think there's an underlying fear in the humanitarian community that your government is reluctant to help people it perceives as Unita supporters?
I don't think that's the problem. We are not reluctant. We are not reluctant because this aid is not going to the people of Unita, it's going to Angolans. The problem is that if they have aid they should come and give it. That's all. We should move from this kind of accusations and they should stick to what our President has written. We've asked for aid. We've defined the type of aid we need, just deliver it. Countries have been sending aid, even smaller countries. They know we need medication, they have sent the medication, this medication has been delivered and so I think that we should move away from this kind of putting across the problem wrongly.
One of allAfrica.com's readers wrote in to ask why the Angolan government was asking the outside world for money when they could spend their own money on aid. He quoted the Global Witness report which accused government members of corruption and said a third of 2001 revenues had been stolen.
First of all, I think that we have a different view. You've got to see who funds Global Witness, who they're working for, and then you'll understand. And therefore, I'm not sure -
Could you elaborate on that?
No, I don't think that is my task to do that. Why, all of the sudden, do we have to talk about Global Witness? I think what's important today is that Angola's coming out of a war. We are solving the major problems of the conflict. We have stayed. We respected our commitments. We will continue to respect those.
The accusations that have come out are not true. We simply have chosen a way of managing our war which was different. If we needed guns, we had to buy guns. There are people who worked for that end. We wanted peace. Where was Global Witness when the war started in Angola in 1992? What kind of action did they take? Who spoke about this at Global Witness? Who spoke about it when Unita re-armed?
We didn't have an army in 1992-3. We had to build one. We have always been transparent with ourselves. The methods have been different. We couldn't go to the open market and acquire the kind of instruments we needed. We had to find ways of handling that issue. We never even bought guns from France so there is no Angola-gate as such, unless for those who have different purposes in Angola.
I think that there are people who wanted to do business their way in Angola, people who wanted to have a monopoly in certain businesses, which is naturally against our laws, or is against what we think should be. Why should we have a relationship which prejudices our own interests in order to satisfy one company? If you understand that, then you will see why Global Witness will write articles like that. I am not worried about Global Witness. I think all that is important is that this government is dedicated to achieving peace and we have found the best solution to do so, and we will succeed with the help of those who understand what we are doing.
If people want to find a reason to accuse anybody, they will always find one. But at the end of the day, the principle here is that it is this government that has, in fact, proposed a solution to the war. We intend to honor our commitments and we can only do that one way. We also say, people cannot expect a full normal environment two months after we've solved war. We need time and we're going to commit ourselves to that.
Who are the main allies ready to support you, within the region and beyond?
There is a very good understanding, we work with the international community, we work with the United Nations; we work with the US - the United States are a very strong partner; We work with Portugal, with the European Union, which is giving a lot of help.
People should not see us as an isolated country, but should also sometimes accept our differences. We want to continue to be independent. We want to continue to rule over our sovereignty while we work on global issues.
We are members of SADC, we tend to integrate into this region but people cannot come and ask us everyday what they want, for their own agendas. People have got to respect our own political transition, our own political evolution, which we're doing very, very carefully. The people should not ask us to run when we cannot yet walk.
Let us walk, then walk faster, then even run, if we should; but give us time to mature, give us time to achieve full political stability where we can let government, members of parliament stabilize, and have full participation by civil society which has been, for a long time, a victim of the process and the ongoing war.
I think that if you look at our record as a government from 1992, not only have we done a lot, but I think that we have achieved the most important thing, which is peace.
As a former Unita member who is now a minister in the MPLA government, you are somebody who's traversed Angola's political spectrum. How, at a personal level, do you react to this year's events?
Well, what I have to say is that Angolans in general have lost a lot in the last 26 years. Many lives have had lots of distraction and a lot of time, and therefore, we need to catch up on time.
We need to catch up on many things and therefore, we've got to pardon ourselves. We've got to be very open to each other and I think the time to start building a better future is now so we shouldn't miss this opportunity. I think we should end the era of having enemies because of a difference of opinion and because of difference of regions or language or ethnicity of color.
I think those are some of the aspects that have affected our society strongly and I think this is the time to build this peace. Coming from where I was, I do realize that a lot of time has been wasted, but I do think that it's also important for the international community to understand Angolans before people make judgments, before they can take sides. We have both been victims of the Cold War era.
I also think that it's important for the international community to understand Angolans. Over the past 26 years we have fought because foreign influence was so strong. Everyone wanted an Angola in their own image, forgetting about us and even after the elections there are those who intended to fuel the war in Angola because they wanted to see one of the sides win.
Forgetting that we had an election in 1992, forgetting that peace was essential for the stability of Angola and therefore having ignored these important elements, they have kept us at war, they found reasons to keep us fighting and I think now it's important that we Angolans first reconcile with ourselves, find common ground and then reconcile with others and ask others to help us.
But when you look at those Unita people coming out of the bush - whether military or civilian - can you imagine how they feel about all these years of fighting? Did they achieve anything they were fighting for?
Well, I think that one of the major problems Unita has had over these years was leadership. I think that people are always innocent. Some of these people do not even know what democracy is, what elections mean and they didn't know what they were fighting for in the first place.
But I believe that they are all relieved today because they are no longer dying, they are no longer fighting and even if we do not have all the conditions to give them very good treatment, we are receiving them well. They understand that we are not doing much more because we can't, but that we are doing the best we can. I think that that's the kind of relief that I am getting from them.
I have lots of people who are related to me, lots of friends... what they need is a moment of peace, a moment of reconciliation to try and see if they can sort out things in their own lives. I think that that's most important.
Historically there was a lot of prejudice in the North of the country against people in Unita's heartland, those known as the bailundos, manual workers, people who were seen as inferior. Do you think those attitudes are gone now? Or do they persist?
Maybe some people dwelt a lot on that, but I think that was not the main reason for the conflict. I think that was a misunderstanding. I think people have used that and the Unita leadership has used that, but it is not the case.
I think that in all societies, sociologically, somebody from London always looks down upon people who come from other areas of Britain. I lived in Paris for five years and people say that if you come from Marseilles that you are not as good as a Parisian, so I don't understand why this would be different in any other place. I even hear people from Johannesburg feel that they are different than somebody who comes from the rural area.
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So I think that the people who have used those things to say that there's a problem in Angola have exaggerated the dimension of the thing or have exaggerated the racial or ethnic conflict. I come from Bailundo myself and I have never felt that I don't have a place in Angolan society.
I think that which ever reasons we may have to struggle for something, the best way to do it is to do it peacefully. If you think that you've rights to fight for, find the proper instruments.
Because we all have responsibility to assume in society and if we become too selfish, thinking only of ourselves and forgetting the others, then I think that we end up in a conflict. But the only way to build reconciliation, I think, is by giving a little bit from our own pride and then trying to find a common ground with others.
How can we explain that Savimbi was able to retain such commitment or loyalty or whatever description we should give it? Why was reconciliation impossible until after he was dead?
Well, I think that in order to understand that, one has to read European history, the Third Reich, try and understand, how could Hitler drive one of the strongest European nations to war based on superiority.
If one reads that and understands, then you can also understand why Savimbi could do that. First you can dwell on a number of problems in your society and emphasize the difference between your situation and that of others; then say that you've been treated unjustly by others and say that you could be better, that you are superior.
And then, you're talking to people whose education levels are low, for understanding. I think that when the Portuguese left Angola only approximately 3% of the Angolan people had been in schools and therefore, Savimbi had the opportunity of delivering the wrong type of message and he dwelled very much on the ethnic aspect.
But people forget, for example, that the Angolan national army has about 80% of people from [Savimbi's] Ovimbundu group, therefore it is wrong to say that the conflict was ethnic! But Savimbi dwelled quite a lot on the ethnic aspect and those people followed him; they came from rural areas and they felt that this was a cause to fight for.
But they eventually came to understand that he was wrong because they are coming together. The reconciliation process after his death was so quick that we were all overwhelmed. They were people who did not want to wait before returning to their villages, to normal life, which means that they also saw him as an obstacle; they couldn't say it, or they couldn't take action because they were afraid of him.
So you realize that the death of Hitler and the defeat of Germany basically brought the end of the second World War. I think that Savimbi himself was a very negative and very bad element, not only for Unita itself, but eventually for Angola and the region, Africa.
