Washington, DC — In the second and final part of AllAfrica's interview with General Paulo Lukamba "Gato", the interim leader of the former Angolan rebel movement, Unita, he discusses the impact and repercussions of the death of the Unita leader, Jonas Savimbi, on the long-running civil war in Angola. General Gato also outlines Unita's political strategy as the leading opposition party in Angola, as well as the movement's prospects in nationwide elections tentatively scheduled for 2004.
Talking strictly politics now. You are here in Washington seated side by side with the deputy Angolan foreign minister, Georges Chikoti. He said Angola must not rush to hold elections this time, after what happened in 1992, when disputed elections were followed by a return to war. What is Unita's view on a date for elections?
The last meeting of the governing MPLA party set 2004 as the probable date for the elections.
Do you consider that date realistic?
It depends on the situation. But there must be no confusion between democracy and elections. So what we need now in Angola is a deeper understanding and entrenchment of democracy. We must create the right conditions -- political, psychological and moral -- so that Angolans can, at last, turn over a new chapter in their history. The elections are simply a part of this process.
That's why we say, yes, it's very important to hold elections but, before that, we have to consolidate democracy in our country. And this solid entrenchment of democracy is the capacity of all political parties to operate in total freedom and independence across the nation.
And I suppose at the end of the process you want to see credible elections?
Quite right. We must create the necessary mechanisms to place the elections within a larger framework, in a credible electoral process, so that whatever the result, whatever the outcome, everyone will acknowledge and agree that the process was free and fair.
So when you do envisage holding elections in Angola -- in 2004, 2005 or 2006?
2004 is a reasonable reference date. But it will depend on the current political dynamic and the level of openness the government is prepared to display, to enable all political parties to operate freely and equitably. That's the most important thing. Also what will be the role of civil society? What will be the role of the independent media? These are the three or four factors that will need to be checked at the end of the day, for us to conclude whether or not the process was truly transparent and equitable. And, above all, this will allow us to judge the correctness of the election.
Coming back to the issue of former Unita-controlled areas, one of the perennial complaints from Unita was that the Ovimbundu region -- Jonas Savimbi's stronghold and power base -- was largely marginalised by the government in Luanda. What is your message to the government now?
Our message is clear. Now that the war is over, we must rebuild the country on a much fairer basis. We must rebuild the infrastructure, especially the roads. There must be an equitable redistribution of Angola's resources. This must be a redistribution of funds on a just basis, so that the whole country will benefit from the country's revenues.
We are living in a country where 75 percent of the population lives in the rural areas. So, we must work hard to develop what is called the 'hinterland'. We need to get right to those parts that, in the colonial days, they called the 'back of beyond or the land at the end of the earth'. The people who live there are still Angolans and they too must benefit from the resources that this country has. What we must put before the people of Angola is a plan, a political programme that is all-inclusive, for the whole of society, and takes into consideration not only the coastal areas, but also the interior.
Is that a challenge or a warning for the government?
Actually, it's more our duty. It's the duty of every government that is proud to call itself a government. The war is over, but where is the programme for peace? What are we going to do with the peace we now have? Is the government capable of taking action? If it's not, I think that Unita is certainly in a position to put forward a plan which includes all Angolans and has the whole country in mind.
So, do you see Unita as being a vocal, strong and effective opposition to the MPLA government or do you see yourselves possibly winning planned elections and becoming the government?
We are an historical party, which is almost 37 years' old. The oldest party in Angola is 40 years' old. So Unita is not new to this. We have considerable experience in these matters, and we are absolutely capable of offering Angolans a credible alternative.
Yes, it's true, we are going to be in the opposition for the meantime, a constructive opposition, but our aim is to be able to give a jumpstart to an alternative way forward in our country that is absolutely possible, especially because Angolans are truly tired of war. The government's image is ruined after 27 years of catastrophic leadership. So, there is the chance that Angolans are ready for a new government, with new faces on the political scene.
Do you think that Unita can win a free and fair election in Angola?
That will depend on our capacity to be able to mobilise Angolan men and women around a programme which will really make a discernable difference. That is why we say we are convinced that, if the elections are free and fair, Unita will be an alternative to the current MPLA government in power.
But what about Angolans who are not pro-Unita, don't they see you as the party of belligerents which prolonged the war ? And because of that, surely they won't cast their ballots in your favour when it comes to elections?
We have no intention of making official the two-party polarisation of political life in Angola. But for a good long time yet, Angolans are going to have to live with these two political parties, the MPLA and UNITA, which are going to dominate the Angolan political scene. This is historical fact and not just pure invention that I made up on the spur of the moment. It's not just me saying that. Unita has not yet been in government. But you judge leaders on their management and political record.
That's why we say that Angolans are going to give the opportunity to a new leadership team, to try out their political programme and demonstrate another way of managing politics in total openness and with equal opportunity for everyone.
So you don't think that the image of Unita as a warmonger, or a war party, will go against you at the polls?
No, I don't think so. Unita didn't make war simply for the sake of war. And Unita didn't wage war all on its own. To make war, you need at least two belligerents. So, if the image of warmonger goes against Unita, then it should also prejudice the other party to the war, the MPLA government. But as Unita has not yet been in power, that would be exactly the right moment and opportunity for the party to show Angolans that it is capable of being in government and showing them what it is capable of doing.
When you look back on your many years in the bush General Gato, and the determination, some would even say obsession, of one man - Jonas Savimbi - to become president, to lead Angola from Luanda, personally do you ask yourself was it worth it? And what about the Unita combatants, are they asking you now whether it was really worth it?
Yes, yes, that was important. The history of humanity is the history of war, unfortunately. That is what history is all about, the history of war. On our part, we acknowledge that the war was destructive in many ways. But we have come to the conclusion today that, whether the war was worth fighting or not, there is something we all agree on, that we must never, ever go to war again. Never again such a war in our country. That's that.
When Jonas Savimbi was killed, did you breathe a sigh of relief because now, perhaps the war could end, or did you feel sorrow? How did you really feel, General Gato?
You know, when a human life is lost, it is always painful. But when you lose a leader it is dramatic. It was dramatic. The death of Savimbi was a tragedy. We had to get a grip; we really had to take a hold of ourselves very quickly to be able to continue the long road that we had started on together 36 years ago. So we had to pull ourselves together. It was difficult, very difficult. Slowly but surely we managed to pull ourselves together though, so that we could put forward our programme as a party in another now, no longer as a military movement, but as a political party.
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So was there a sense of relief once Jonas Savimbi was dead or was it sorrow, or a mixture of the two?
It was painful, very painful. It was a tragedy. It was a catastrophe. It was difficult and very tough for us to deal with. When you lose a human life it's a pity, it is regrettable. But, as I said earlier, when you lose your leader with whom you have spent the past thirty years, that is even harder to deal with. That is why we said we must really pull ourselves together so that we can move forward.
But there are many who say that it was only with the death of Savimbi, with Savimbi out of the picture, that Unita could stop fighting, leave the bush and pursue a resolution to the war and try to make peace in Angola...
After we had pulled ourselves together, the immediate question was "what are we going to do now? We have two choices. Either we continue the war or we start negotiations". Our conversations and discussions centred on those two options. We realised that we had other options, but we feel that we made the best choice.
But were Savimbi still alive, would there be that choice?
Yes. Exactly and President Savimbi was ready. I was in southern Malange when he called me on 10 September, to say that I should come and meet him, "because there are political developments in Angola that I want to discuss with Unita members, so come and see me".
I heard from my colleagues what those developments were. They told me that we were in contact with some elements of the international community, that there were people within the international community who knew that President Savimbi had made some approaches with a view to a political resolution to the war. That's why it wasn't at all difficult for me to choose what direction to take (after his death). It was exactly the line he was following a year before he died.
