Africa: Libya’s 'Mr Africa’ on the AU, Nepad and Peer Review

23 July 2002
allAfrica.com
interview By Ofeibea Quist-Arcton

Durban, South Africa — The South African president, Thabo Mbeki, was the official host and chairman of the inaugural summit of the African Union (AU) in Durban earlier this month. But the leader who stole the limelight in the South African Indian Ocean port city was undoubtedly Libya’s Muammar al-Gaddafi.

Mbeki fought an uphill battle to ensure that he stamped his authority all over the AU, despite fierce competition from Gaddafi, who happily takes credit for spearheading the creation of the new continental organisation. The Libyan head of state, known as 'The Guide of the Revolution’ or the 'Brother Leader,’ does not shy away from publicity and ensures that, wherever he goes in Africa, his voice is heard and his presence noted.

'The Guide’ even managed to slip in an unscheduled, impassioned impromptu speech - in fractured English - during the public launch of the African Union. His was the only speech that galvanised the thousands gathered at a huge stadium in Durban, who cheered Al-Gaddafi on with loud whistling, ululating and applause.

Some call him a maverick, others call Al-Gaddafi a nuisance. His supporters describe him as a visionary. Everywhere he goes, he is remembered.

During the Durban summit, allAfrica.com’s Ofeibea Quist-Arcton caught up with Gaddafi’s fast-talking, fast-walking African Affairs Minister, Ali Triki, in a corridor at the summit venue; he spared a scant few minutes to talk to her and to the BBC’s Barnaby Phillips, while fielding cellular phone calls and a constant flow of greetings.

Minister Triki, what is your overall view about the summit and especially 'peer review’, which is a new element in the African Union?

I think the summit has gone smooth, nice, with spirit and determination to go forward and strengthen our union. I can say that we are very pleased with the results of the summit. I think we achieved a lot of things.

A lot of people are saying that, as usual, Muammar al-Gaddafi stole the thunder of the host president.

Nonsense. Nonsense. We are the ones really who encouraged, who insisted, that this summit should take place here in South Africa, which is the last country to be liberated from racism and colonialism by the South Africans and Africa.

Was Al-Gaddafi upset that the inaugural AU summit did not take place in Libya?

We never asked for that. We supported South Africa. In fact, we are the ones who encourage all the countries to attend here. We are very proud that the first meeting of the AU is in South Africa.

Many people have been saying that Libya wants to dominate the African Union; what is your response?

Nonsense. Libya is in the service of the African Union, not to dominate it. It is Libya who initiated the Union. It is Libya who will continue, with other African countries, to rebuild, to build this Union, together with our brothers on the continent. We don’t look to others. We refuse the domination of foreign powers, we never asked for that. We are here for the service of the continent.

Do you see Muammar Al-Gaddafi as being the brain behind the African Union or would you say it is the inspiration of Ghana’s first president, Kwame Nkrumah - who advocated pan-African unity half a century ago?

He was the founder leader who asked for that, years ago. But recently, the one who initiated this is the leader of the Libyan revolution.

This new 'peer review’ mechanism which is a new departure for the African Union, what does Muammar Al-Gaddafi think about it? Because, of course, it means that he - and Libya - could be heavily criticised or, I suppose, thoroughly praised.

I think we are proud that we are the ones who created the Union, the ones who are behind the creation of the Union, because we are the ones that initiated it. That is the most important thing. For us, the Union is the most important, more important than any heads of state or any chairman or whatever. And you can see that all the presidents, including President El Bashir of Sudan, on behalf of the continent, he congratulated the 'leader’ for what he did for the continent and the creation of the Union. So we are very proud of what we did.

Do you think Libya has a democratic tradition which stands up to scrutiny through, for example, peer review? Would you be happy if other African leaders criticised the way government is run in Libya?

You see first, I don’t think anyone can give us a lesson in that. We had a civilisation before the West. We had a democratic civilisation, the Muslims, in our religion and Africans. We had a civilisation, our traditions, our democratic system and the West’s came late, very late, way after us. So I don’t think we need a lesson (laughs). The European system of government came late. Ours was one thousand and four hundred years ago. We had our own system.

I think what we need from the West is to help us fight disease, Aids, malaria and others. We don’t need a lesson.

What about the fact that national sovereignty, as the Nigerian president, Olusegun Obasanjo, said, will no longer be a taboo area and that the African Union will be able to intervene in the internal affairs of a country in the case of conflict or genocide and so on.

We do not accept any intervention. I think the reason for that, well, Libya asked for the creation of an organ within the Union to supervise elections. So, we do not want foreign intervention. In fact, one of the leaders - I think [Uganda's] President Museveni - said we should have a so-called Monroe doctrine, an African doctrine, that we should not allow foreigners to intervene in our internal affairs. This is the proposal of President Museveni of Uganda.

There’s to be an extraordinary AU summit in six months, to discuss some complicated amendments to the founding Act of the African Union proposed by Libya. Will this summit be held in Sirte, in Libya?

They have decided on a summit and that will be any place on the continent, in the headquarters [in Addis Ababa] or wherever.

Do you expect it to be in Sirte?

No we are not inviting. But if the Africans want, we will be honoured by having them with us.

What about the location of the headquarters of the new African Union. There were rumours that Libya was keen to be the host.

We have never thought about that. We supported South Africa [as the host of the inaugural AU summit]. Many African countries asked about it and we said, no, we support South Africa. South Africa did a lot for the continent and we are proud that this is the last African country to be liberated from the racist regime and that the Union starts from here.

Could you give us your views on Nepad, the New Partnership for Africa’s Development -- and its relationship with the G8 [group of industrialised countries]?

There is no Nepad for the G8. Nepad is a programme for the African Union. The G8 did not initiate Nepad. We Africans initiated Nepad. It was in Sirte that we asked President Mbeki and President Bouteflika [of Algeria] to discuss this with the rich countries, concerning the foreign debt. That does not make it the creation of the G8. We don’t accept that the G8 will impose on us, or whatever. This is the decision of the summit here. We do not accept conditions. Nepad is the creation of the OAU and now it is the creation of the African union.

Do you feel that Libya has been left out of the Nepad process?

No, no, no, no. We are not being left out. And nothing has happened. Nothing has come out of Europe. I hope that we ourselves will depend on ourselves.

What role does Libya expect to play in Nepad?

Libya is willing now. We believe that we should start by ourselves, as Africans, then we will ask the others to come. But all the African leaders, without exception, refused any conditions from anyone who would like to help. If we are looking for partners to build the continent, if the European Community or the United States or Japan or whoever come forward, we welcome that help - but without any conditions.

What about the enlargement of the key implementation commission of Nepad? There will be one more place per region. North Africa already has three places, now it will have four. Is Libya putting itself forward, are you hoping that you will become the fourth member?

Well we attended, we were invited [to the Nepad meetings] and if they decide on us, we will be very, very glad.

But are you lobbying?

No I am not lobbying.

Is Libya lobbying for this place?

We are doing more than any other African country on this continent. And if the Africans want us to serve them, we are ready.

What has been all the talk about guns and goats and some of your vehicles having been impounded or taken in for safekeeping?

This is nonsense.

So, what has happened?

You are looking for trouble.

I’m not, I’m not. I would like to know what happened.

Nothing happened. It was the advance team of Libya preparing for the visit.

We heard the South African defence minister, Mosiuoa Lekota, say on national radio that some of your many vehicles and weapons had been taken into safekeeping.

This is nonsense, nonsense, nonsense. You are talking about nonsense.

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