Tokyo — South Africa is often cited - inside and outside the continent - as Africa's leading economy, as well as a major player in the New Partnership for Africa's Development (Nepad).
So, what does Africa's most powerful economy stand to gain from a partnership with Japan? About twenty West African leaders, including South African President Thabo Mbeki, gathered in the Japanese capital for the opening of the third Tokyo International Conference on African Development (Ticad) on Monday.
Mbeki's delegation to Japan includes foreign minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma. She talked to allAfrica.com's Ofeibea Quist-Arcton about South African foreign policy in Africa, Pretoria's views on the recent failed World Trade Organisation talks and the relationship between South Africa and Tokyo. Excerpts:
Dr Dlamini-Zuma, what is the magic in this relationship between Japan and Africa that everyone seems to feel here in Tokyo and what could come out of a conference such as Ticad?
Well I think it's an important meeting, because Tokyo and Japan as a whole have got a very important role to play in development. Therefore Africa is one of the regions - well it's the region - that needs development most. Tokyo's involvement and interest in the development of Africa are very welcome.
But also, I think that this meeting does more than just focus the relationship between Tokyo and Africa. It also acts as a catalyst for other partners to make sure that what comes out of here is coordinated and, hopefully, implemented.
When you say 'act as a catalyst for other partners,' which ones?
As you know, Ticad involves not just Tokyo, but it involves countries other than Japan. As you can see there's Indonesia, there's Malaysia and other Asian and European countries. Of course other countries from Europe, like France and Germany, have their work mainly within the G8. But there are other Asian countries here who would also have an interest in Africa's development and also the coordination with the other development partners like the World Bank and others, Unicef and so on. I think it's a good thing that they are here so that we all have the same goals and the same objectives.
Many of the African leaders here in Tokyo have said that Japan gives aid and assistance, but it doesn't "give orders". So what is Japan getting out of this relationship with Africa?
First of all, Japan has got a very developed private sector. Its private sector needs to expand and make inroads into Africa. And I'm sure that the Japanese private sector will benefit. In South Africa, we have a very strong relationship with the Japanese private sector. Our two-way trade is about 44 billion rand, so that's one of the benefits that will come out.
Secondly, I think Japan also sees itself as an international player and I think it's a good area to develop to be seen as a country that is interested in the development of poor countries. So I'm sure Japan will benefit just as much as we would benefit. We are talking about infrastructure development and those issues. And Japan will have some benefits. Also for Japan to have a good relationship with Africa is important.
Not to be cynical, but Japan is vying for a permanent seat on the United Nations' security council. If Japan has been reaching out to Africa for the past ten years, with aid and by holding three editions of Ticad, when the time comes for Tokyo to make a formal bid to join the permanent members of the security council, it could be in a good position to garner African support. So Japanese aid should not just be seen as philanthropy, should it?
I don't think there is any relationship anywhere in the world that is one-way. Every relationship - whether it's with Japan or any other country - has benefits for both people. So, yes, Japan may also call on us to support it for the permanent Security Council seat, but - so what?
Are you saying, that's politics, that's diplomacy?
Yes. In any case, whatever country come up and needs a seat, it will need Africa's support, because you need to get at least two thirds of the membership voting for you. And Africa has got 53 countries, therefore it's an important block vote in terms of voting at the UN.
But I don't think Japan is doing that just for the seat. There are lots of other benefits. It makes economic sense to help Africa. When Africa develops, it's got a huge population. It will become a huge market for Japanese products, but also Japan can benefit from the resources in Africa in terms of working together.
So Japan is obviously not doing it for charity and it would be naive for anybody to think they're doing it for charity. It's mutually beneficial and we don't want charity either, as Africans. We want partnerships, so that the other partner also benefits. That's more dignified than asking for charity.
But how equitable is the trade flow between Africa and Japan? Japan sells a lot to Africa, but how much does Africa sell to Japan?
I don't have the total figures of what Africa sells to Japan, but I know that South Africa sells a lot to Japan. As I say, our two-way trade is R44bn and we export a lot to Japan. Japanese countries manufacture a lot in South Africa as well.
Still on the subject of trade, can I turn your attention to the breakdown in the World Trade Organisation negotiations recently in Cancun, Mexico? What is the South African view in general and, in particular, on the major issue for developing countries in and outside Africa on continuing agricultural subsidies in the West?
I think we have all agreed that this should be a development round and that we should be looking at issues of agriculture which are very close to the interests of the developing countries.
Therefore, whatever agreement had to come out of those negotiations had to address the concerns of developing countries. And if those concerns are not addressed, there is no point having an agreement, because whatever agreement comes out must benefit us as well as benefit other people.
My view is that whatever was discussed in Cancun, whatever progress was made in Cancun, you can take that and let it form a basis for further discussions and further negotiations. And I think there is still time, before the conclusion of this round of negotiations, to take the issues further. But we must make sure that it is, indeed, a development round and that, indeed, we do get our concerns addressed as a developing countries.
So what is your response to those critics who say Africa failed itself in Cancun? Do you reject that argument?
Yes, I do. I reject it totally, because when they say Africa failed itself, what did they have on the table for us? What was it that we were supposed to accept? They didn't have what we needed on the table. If they are going to put what we need on the table, obviously we won't fail ourselves.
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We know our needs. We understand our needs. We know what they had put on the table. It had not reached the stage where we could reach an agreement. And we hope that, in the coming months, they will be flexible and put what we need on the table. But we were not just going to agree for the sake of agreeing.
A question about South African foreign policy in the rest of Africa: increasingly not only is Pretoria seen as one of the main leaders on the continent - and Africa's economic powerhouse - but more and more, South Africa is moving into the rest of the continent and taking the lead. Take, for example, the peace process in the Democratic Republic of Congo, in Burundi and elsewhere. You have troops deployed as part of peacekeeping forces in at least two countries. Have you bitten off more than you can chew or can South Africa cope with the heavy workload? And you as foreign minister, Dr Dlamini-Zuma, are busy shuttling around the continent. Do you ever get time to sleep?!
Let me put it this way. We see ourselves as an integral part of the continent, which we are. Therefore, South Africa cannot reach its full potential if Africa hasn't reached its full potential. So it's as important for us to develop as it is for the rest of Africa. So we are not doing it for charity. We are doing it because it makes sense to have a secure, stable, continent in which we live.
It makes sense to have a prosperous continent. So it's important for us. And our foreign policy actually hinges on Africa. That is our priority. Everything else we do has to make sense in terms of the renewal of Africa.
