Accra, Ghana — In the second and final part of an interview with allAfrica.com, Ghanaian president John Agyekum Kufuor talks about his hopes for Ghana and the performance of his government after 18 months in office.
He also discusses the National Reconciliation Commission set up to investigate crimes committed under successive military governments in Ghana until the return to constitutional government in 1992. But he began with the visit to Ghana this week by Americas Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill and his traveling companion Bono, the Irish lead singer of rock band U2. Their four-nation African tour takes them to South Africa, Uganda and Ethiopia.
You welcomed Treasury Secretary, Paul ONeill, here to Ghana this week. Mr ONeill has acknowledged that he is something of an 'aid skeptic, Were you - and Bono - able to convince Mr ONeill that Ghana is using aid responsibly and of the case for debt cancellation?
Mr ONeill stated clearly that he had come to see, and to listen. He didnt add that he would pronounce himself here.
A point to note is that Mr ONeill and Bono flew in the same plane here and they came to visit me. I got the feeling that there was understanding already between the two gentlemen. They had come together, one representing the community of nations that one might describe as creditor nations or donor nations - thats Mr ONeill -- the other, Bono, representing the new force out there, appealing to the creditors to write off or forgive debt to the poorer parts of the world.
PART 1: Ghana President Promises Strong Ecowas Stance on Liberia
These two forces came together, on the same flight, to visit me, sat side by side with me, so I listened to them. Now what I discerned was that, out there, both the creditors and the friends of the poor, are getting very close together, wanting to bring on board the handicapped, so that the world might begin to feel at one to help bring relief to the handicapped.
But naturally, people who 'have', tend to insist on having value for money which, to me, is common sense. So I understood Mr ONeill to be saying, look, we are agreeing to come and partner you, but we want to feel that whatever would come from our end towards you would be used transparently and efficiently for the good of your people. That is what I thought Mr ONeill was saying and there is nothing wrong with that.
I also congratulated Bono for standing up. After all, he lives in Europe, hes not an African. And yet he seemed to show that he understood the problems of poverty and other handicaps that Africa suffers from. That is why he has put himself forward, championing and advocating for the third world. So, I congratulated him for taking this initiative and also I assured him that here, Ghana, has given itself the leadership that truly is trying to be transparent, trying to be efficient in the face of all the difficulties. I assured them that whatever helps, and would come by way of relief from debt, would be used genuinely to advance the well being of the people of Ghana.
I heard a letter on the radio from a BBC listener asking why Bono should be the tour guide in Africa for the US Treasury Secretary and why Paul ONeill didnt travel with an African. Why Bono, an Irishman, a pop star, who really doesnt know Africa?
I got the impression that Bono felt at one with Africa spiritually. He neednt be an African and Paul ONeill neednt necessarily have come with an African. Africa is in debt to the advanced parts of the world. Africa needs advocates. So, if a fellow like Mr Bono has felt this need and would identify with Africa, and go at his own cost, to make an appeal and to be convincing, why should Africa be criticizing him? Rather we should welcome him.
We want to live in a world of peoples. We believe in humanity. We do not see national boundaries, continents and races and so on. So Bono is very welcome here and, to me, he is very sincere.
And did you know his music? Do you know the music of his band U2?
He sang a bit for some schoolchildren and I enjoyed him. I thought he was a very natural person, a very human person. I believe I have become a friend of his, a very big fan of his.
President Kufuor, coming back to the situation here in Ghana, another requirement of good governance, under Nepad, is the fight against corruption. When you came into office, you couldnt stress enough that there would be zero tolerance for corruption in Ghana. Zero tolerance was a buzz expression of your government. Some people are saying, but look at Kufuors government. His brother is the defence minister, his brother-in-law is the senior minister, his nephews are in top positions as government officials - that it's nepotism.
I suspect that some of these people talk out of envy. Brother-in-law as senior minister has been a public servant, has been a minister - is it four times over? Way before Kufuor even had the chance to become president.
Are they suggesting that this man, with such rich, accumulated experiences in service of the nation as a minister in government, should be jettisoned just because he is Kufuors brother-in-law? The man chose his profession in politics way before Kufuor became president. So why should Kufuor disqualify him just because Kufuor is married to his sister?
And if you are referring to the minister of defence -
Your brother
- yes, my brother. He is a very accomplished politician. He was in parliament long before I became president. He is committed to public service. He used to be president of the Ghana Medical Association. He has won his own seat in parliament on my (New Patriotic) partys side. Why should I disqualify him from being a minister, when you look at the performance he has put up within the past year and a half? Just talk with the public generally to see whether he has been a second-rate minister. He is distinguishing himself all round.
So, why shouldnt Kufuor take advantage of this blessing of a brother?
If his nephews are in government, all of them, check their CVs. Check whether they were plucked from somewhere by Kufuor and put in places where they become like square pegs in round holes. All of them fit beautifully.
Kufuor is just lucky to have been born into this situation where there are so many accomplished people who had already chosen their careers in public life, and who had made it there, Kufuor is only acknowledging them.
And in any case Kufuor is not surrounded entirely by his family. No. I assure you, Kufuors government is full of highly-qualified, competent people who had made their careers in public life, most of whom are not Kufuors relatives. It just happens there are some of Kufuors relatives in place, but these people were there before Kufuor came and Kufuor cannot rightly disqualify them. And Kufuor wont do it in any case, because they have good services to render to Ghana.
Is Ghana looking forward, is Ghana looking up, under President John Agyekum Kufuor?
Ghana is looking forward with Kufuor and Ghana expects to go upwards with Kufuor into prosperity, happiness and advancement.
I ask, because now that you have outlined your plans and ambitions, and set out your policies, I hear Ghanaians grumbling, saying "no money in the system" and complaining that the economy isnt moving fast enough. "What is Kufuors government doing?" they ask? "They came in with promises and with pledges, but they are not delivering."
Kufuors government is moving at top speed. These are a people who lost their voices for the past two or three decades under revolutionary leaders, or so-called, who wouldnt allow them any say at all, to the extent that an historian dubbed the people as living in a culture of silence.
All of a sudden, they get a government that has repealed the criminal libel laws, a government that is encouraging people to be expressive. Like the damned people who have found their voices, all of a sudden everybody is cackling on FM radio stations and talking. And from the hunger and deprivation they suffered over the decades, all of a sudden they want to demand, they want food now, now, now.
What this government feels it has a duty to do is also to try to let the people harness themselves, restrain themselves, get to learn that building is much more difficult than destroying.
If you go into the field - and we are an agricultural country - you plant a stick of cassava, put a stick down for planting, it takes not less than about a year for the seedling to mature, to begin to bear the tuber that you will dig for food. Thats just cassava. So when you are talking about bringing a nation on stream to develop economically, definitely it takes more than a just a year.
My government has been in power for only 1 year and 4 months now, but the evidence is out there for them to see. When we talk about the golden age of business, we are talking of an increase in investments; investments come from savings or borrowing from banks.
Before, the borrowing rates were something like 50 percent. You go to a bank to take money to invest, you take 50 percent. And no business person could borrow and succeed under that regime.
Today, interest rates have fallen from 50 to 26 percent, all within a year and a bit, which means we are pushing the business community, the people who are capable of investing, very fast towards times when they can borrow at affordable rates. Its when the outlay is made, by way of investment that the golden age comes off.
And we have promised the people that, within our term of four years - and we have already used one year and a bit - within this time, we are going to make money accessible and affordable to the investors. That is where employment would come and redistribution of incomes would come and the golden age would be there, all within a space of four to eight years.
So, I believe we are on course. But, naturally, given the background as Ive tried to explain - people who have been made hungry over decades, people who have been denied a say in what affects them - given that all of a sudden you remove the impediments, these people would talk! So the talk you hear is only a reflection of where the people are coming from.
But, of course, people say Kufuor has been given a four-year term - the first two years to get something done and the last two years to campaign for re-election. So that gives you, what, six or seven months to complete your programme and policies before the 2004 election campaign starts?
But life is not like that. My campaign is in my policies so, even as I bring down inflation and interest rates and secure society from violent robberies and things like that, even as I do all these things, I know that is my campaign, so that there wont be a hard line between the first two years, when I laid policies, and the remaining two years where I go on the stump talking. No.
My campaign is in my deeds as government, in my policies. And I believe that the policies will win for me when the elections come round in two years time.
What about those who consider that not all of your ministers, in fact that not enough of your ministers, are performing well enough, they are not delivering and its time for you to sweep some of them out? You have tried them out, people say, but certain ministers weren't right, and when half of the ministers are not performing efficiently, then Kufuors is not an efficient government.
It is easy to criticise. People should know that we are a new government altogether. It is a government of people most of whom are having their first brush with government. These are people who have been in the professions, doing their own things, and they have been put in ministerial positions. So, it should take a bit of time for them to get on top of managing ministries of civil servants, the most complex people you can expect to manage anywhere, anytime.
Meaning?
(Laughs). Meaning that when a minister comes in, it takes some doing to get to know this class of people who tend to be as good as the ministers themselves in terms of professions, know-how, experience and so on. Some are even far better, because they would have sat in the ministries for ten, twenty, years and formed habits -
And allegiances?
And allegiances, thank you. So, it would take some doing for the ministers to harness the service and push it in the direction the civil service should go.
But does it worry you when you hear that such and such a minister is really not up to the task and that such and such a minister is really not performing well?
Anytime I hear any such thing, be it accusation or charge or rumour, about any of my ministers, then naturally Im concerned. And I look behind. I try to get to know what the real truth is about the minister.
And I believe each and every one of my ministers knows that if they should be caught indulging in any unacceptable conduct - as far as government management is concerned - then such ministers would not be covered.
But if I find that they havent committed any real offence or they havent been neglectful, but it is just a matter of their maturing into the office, if I find this is the case, then I give them a bit of time.
Because one year in government - yes in politics they say even a day might be too long - one year trying to manage civil service, formulate policies, implement policies in a hungry and poor nation, I tell you, is not too long a time.
I need to mature my ministers. I am taking a medium-to-long term view of things
Is Ghana hungry and poor?
Relatively, we are. We could do far better than we are.
So, President Kufuor, are you saying there are areas where your government is failing?
No, Im not saying that. Im talking of the nation. Im not talking about my government. The nation could do far better. We are naturally well-endowed with good human beings, natural resources and all that.
We are peaceful and I believe, in our sub-region, we are perhaps the most attractive for foreigners. The potential is huge. But because of a lot of misgovernment in the past, we find we still are a bit handicapped and it will take some doing to bring things to the level where we can say that, yah, we are in our proper milieu to advance society and unleash wealth for our people and get along with the rest of the world. It will take some time and thats what Im trying to talk about.
We need to mature leaders and help them focus on the duty of unleashing the wealth, managing the society well, so that people would be empowered and made self-proud for them to advance.
Ghanaians peaceful? But it was Ghanaians who not so long ago beheaded the Ya Na, the King of the Dagomba people of the north.
Its not 'Ghanaians. You cant put it that way. All over the world, unfortunate things like that happen - in all societies. You take any place in the first world, or the advanced parts of the world -
But how much of a problem is this recurring northern tribal conflict for Ghana, for you and your government to try to resolve this?
Its a big problem. The government has set up a judicial commission of enquiry. The commission is starting work perhaps within the next few weeks or so.
The loss of any life for us is not good, any life in the circumstances in which Ya Nas death happened is just not acceptable to us. We are quickly trying to resolve the situation there. But it shouldnt be picked on and used and generalised as if the entire Ghanaian society has fallen into criminality or anything of the sort.
But two of your ministers - one national, one regional - have had to resign. And a senior security official, your national security advisor, has also had to resign in recent days over the same Ya Na beheading issue.
But let me tell you; it so happens that these ministers come from this group, the tribe, in which this incident took place. People mentioned their names, allegations were made. We are the sort of government that has promised to govern by the rule of law.
So, if the national security advisor, who hails from that area and whose name happens to have been mentioned, offers to resign so that he could appear before the commission of enquiry or even go to court to prove his innocence, or challenge anybody to prove his liability, and the government accepts, do you take that as reflecting adversely on government?
Sign up for free AllAfrica Newsletters
Get the latest in African news delivered straight to your inbox
Not that government should be congratulated, because we know of instances when governments just turned a blind eye to similar situations - even here in this country - but this government is not doing that.
When the offer of resignation came, the government said yes, we accept. Go and face your accusers. Of course we are hoping that these ministers would come out clean, so that they could resume their positions in public service if they choose, or at least live their lives as free and innocent people.
So, this is what has happened. Government accepted resignations so as to prove to the entire nation there is nothing to hide as far as this government is concerned. We submit entirely to the rule of law and we want transparency. We have promised the people that and we are giving them that.
Looking back into the past and also into the future, Ghana has set up the National Reconciliation Commission that you pledged would look into the wrongs and misdeeds of the past. It is geared up for work. The commission members have been appointed and sworn in. Next should come the secretariat. Business is meant to begin in July - that's in less than six weeks. Will the commission start work on time? You promised Ghanaians who had been hurt under successive military regimes that their voices would be heard. Is this going to be positive development and exercise for Ghana, the national reconciliation hearings?
It must be positive. It can only be positive in the sense that, as you know, many people were killed, properties were confiscated and some destroyed. People were denied their say. I referred to the culture of silence and Im sure you very much know about it.
Now we are into normal times. We are living under a civilized constitution and respecting human rights and also establishing the rule of law. We want to give a safety valve to society by creating this commission, so that all people with bottled up, hurt feelings could appear there and tell their story.
The commission is made up of nine distinguished citizens, all Ghanaians. They will hear and recommend ways and means to straighten the situation out.
So, when I say that the society should call on hurt people to forgive, the foundation will be there. Such people, because they have been given the opportunity to tell their story to the world, to secure the sympathies of society, should be able to forgive.
But if we do not allow people to have their say this way, then the likelier course for them to take would be, perhaps, to take up cudgels and cutlasses and go after those people they think hurt them. We dont want that, so this is what the government is trying to do with the establishment of the National Reconciliation Commission.
So, will the hearings bring reconciliation to Ghana or will they sow division? The critics say the national reconciliation commission will be a witch hunt against those who led the former military regimes.
Look at the critics well and you will see that perhaps they were the perpetrators of the offences that people have been complaining about. We believe it would promote reconciliation, because when an aggrieved person appears before this commission of reconciliation, such an aggrieved person will be heard. Where necessary, perhaps witnesses will be called. Evidence will be produced.
And when the Commission is satisfied that, truly, the complainants were unjustifiably and unduly hurt, the commission would make such a prescription of remedy, to government and to the nation, which would again bring about balance and would restore normalcy.
I have said, wherever possible, wherever reasonably possible, the government will step in to do the necessary pacification. So, resorting to retribution or vengeance may not be the order of the day.
If you call that a witch hunt, then I dont know what you mean by that word. But I can assure you that when you hear ten people saying that this commission would be a witch hunt, and you look closely, perhaps of the ten, nine would have been perpetrators of the evils that have led to the establishment of this reconciliation commission for peace within our society.
Part One: Ghana President Promises Strong Ecowas Stance on Liberia
