Durban, South Africa — Dr Mohamed ibn Chambas is the executive secretary of the Economic Community of West African States (Ecowas). He attended the recent inaugural summit of the African Union (AU) in Durban, representing the region. The West African community is currently battling to resolve the conflict in Liberia pitting rebels of the Liberians United for the Restoration of Democracy (Lurd) against the government of President Charles Taylor. In an interview with allAfrica.com's Ofeibea Quist-Arcton, Dr Chambas spoke about progress by Ecowas to bring together the two rival Liberian sides. First though, he gave his impressions of the transition from the Organisation of African Unity (OAU) to the AU.
Dr Chambas, what are your thoughts after the first ever African Union summit in Durban?
From the point of view of the Regional Economic Communities (RECs), we thought that this was a significant event because, quite frankly, the RECs had not been fully involved in the OAU, probably because the major focus of the Organisation of African Unity (OAU) was more on the political issues. But regional economic communities such as Ecowas and SADC and Comesa, and others, see a departure here, that part of the transition from OAU to the African Union is also the clear shift to give more focus to the RECs and to see to it that the integration effort, economic and social integration effort, is given a major boost.
As an example of that, for the first time we were actually given an opportunity to report on the activities of our various regional economic groups to the summit, so that there would be an opportunity to discuss the work that is being done in the various sub-regions to ensure that we coordinate and harmonise our policies on the economy, on trade and other major sectors.
So what is your status? Do those of you from the Regional Economic Communities remain observers in the African Union, as in the OAU, or do you have a new status within the AU?
Indeed, we are part of the AU secretariat and we were identified as such. This enabled us to sit in on all the meetings - including closed session meetings.
And that is something new, is it?
That is significant and we think that, within the context of the AU, we will be involved more and more, especially as far as the implementation of policies is concerned. Our units are identified as the building blocks of the AU, and, for that to have any meaning, we have to be deeply involved in the various processes. And it has to be appreciated that when it comes to integrating and harmonising and liberalising trade and exchange and greater coordination, it is going to be at the sub-regional levels.
In that regard, we stand ready to play our role to show that the AU is about improving the lives of African people and concentrating on economic development. So, for instance, the Nepad; we believe that the implementation of the Nepad really has to be at the sub-regional level. That is why in West Africa, we have met as a sub-region at summit level and we hope that the other sub-regions will do likewise and that all of this can feed into the work of the (Nepad) steering and implementation committees.
If we did all this, I think there would be a clear shift away from the purely political issues to issues now of socio-economic development, fighting poverty, ensuring that there is growth, creating jobs for African youths etc. Thats where the ordinary people of Africa will really see the difference.
But is the idea that the programmes of the New Partnership for Africas Development are implemented at the regional level, by organisations such as yours, Ecowas?
Yes, and I think that, even at the level of the implementation committee, this is now appreciated. In fact the meeting of the implementation committee in Durban urged all the various sub-regional organisations to hold sub-regional meetings on the Nepad. Thats how you can focus and get effective implementation. It cannot stay at the continent-wide level. It has to be brought down to various sub-regions and then, that way, even nationally, you will see an impact.
One, of course, is not talking only about the economic side: even on issues of political stability, on democratisation, respect for human rights. In terms of actually getting effective supervision - or shall we just say, monitoring and peer review - it should be at the level of the sub-regional organisations. The fact is that when one country refuses to live up to the minimum norms that Africans have set for themselves, for governance, the immediate impact is felt by the sub-region, with the influx of refugees to their countries and the destabilising effect that has.
That is why, in West Africa, we have always appreciated this and we have adopted a protocol on governance and democracy and we see that there is clearly a link between having good governance, respect for human rights, peace and stability and economic development.
Which brings us precisely to my next point, the issue of peer review, because, for the first time, under Nepad, this voluntary mechanism is going to exist within the African Union. Leaders can be brought to book and their conduct is going to be observed and monitored - not only by their peers, but by everyone else. Will this make it easier at regional level for you to whip people into line?
Absolutely, It is a major departure and one of the significant differences between the AU and the OAU. In 1963, the issue was sovereignty and everybody there was protecting their sovereignty. It created a Chinese wall, behind which all kinds of things happened, and not always to the good of Africa. In fact, on the contrary, many negative images were brought upon Africa.
Now there is a departure and there is an admission that sovereignty cannot be a shield behind which all sorts of untold negative things can be visited upon the population and that the African leaders, African countries and African people can, and should, intervene when things go beyond the pale; when there is gross abuse of the population and the rights of peoples.
Thats a significant departure and, in West Africa, this principle we have acknowledged for some time now. That is why we intervened in Liberia. That is we were able to intervene in Sierra Leone and in Guinea Bissau. It remains one of the guiding principles of our protocol on democracy and good governance, which says there should be zero tolerance of the violent overthrow of governments and lack of respect for the basic rights of peoples in countries.
We say so because what happens in one country is of concern to the neighbours. Because, if we dont intervene in a timely fashion, when things break down, they impact - for example the refugees - on neighbours; so I think that now we have to understand in Africa that we are all in the boat together and we must truly be each others keeper. We should set some minimum standard for governance that will help us to create the enabling environment to attract investment, to grow our economies, to create wealth and prosperity for our people.
Now lets talk Liberia. What is the current situation? We get the impression that there is a dual track. First, the Mano River Union presidents (of Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone) who went to Morocco and tried to resolve their differences there, under the auspices of Prince Mohamed, and second, the Ecowas initiatives. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the latter seem to have been questioned by the government of Liberia?
No, on the contrary. The two processes are working hand in hand. The Rabat process was useful to improve the relations between the three Mano River Union countries. That has had that effect and has broken the ice. They are now able to call each other and to discuss issues of peace and security in their sub-region.
The Ecowas process is designed to bring Liberians together - the government, the Lurd rebel movement and other political parties to a round table discussion on the future of their country.
Talking about the Lurd rebels, of course Ecowas has said - and you have told allAfrica in the past - that the rebels can never be recognised, because they are using arms to try to topple the government and you cant do business with them.
We have always said - indeed stated categorically and that remains the Ecowas position - that on the one hand they [Lurd] cannot attain power through armed insurrection as they are doing and, if they did, they would not be recognised.
It is not only the Ecowas position, it is the AU position. So that has to be very clear. It is a question of principle. Unconstitutional accession to power will not be recognised. That is point one.
Point two, though, is that there is a problem on the ground in Liberia. The legitimate, legally constituted government does not control the entire territory of Liberia. And, worse yet, there are internally displaced persons, refugees from there, adding to the suffering of the population. So we have a duty to come in there and bring the parties that are at war - in this case the government and Lurd - to an understanding, to achieve a ceasefire and to put the process back on the political track. So Lurd should be encouraged to come on board the political track. Thats the only way they can seek power in Liberia.
So, when are you going to organise a meeting? Because the Ecowas peacekeeping expert, General Cheikh Oumar Diarra, has indicated to allAfrica that in principle "with some conditions" President Taylor is prepared to meet the Lurd rebels. When can we expect to see them sitting at the same table under Ecowas auspices?
General Diarra is right about that. That is because in the last week or two there have been some positive developments, both from the point of view of getting Lurd to the table and also the willingness of the Liberian government to encourage a process of talking to all parties. The West African meeting of foreign ministers, that took place here in Durban on the side of the AU summit, decided that the President of Senegal (Abdoulaye Wade) should make contact with Lurd.
In fact, the initiative came from Lurd. We have to give them credit there, that they are willing to meet in Dakar for any talks that will be arranged, under the auspices of President Abdoulaye Wade, Ecowas and the UN. This is the process that we will be working on in the next couple of days and weeks and we hope to see some movement in that direction.
Once Lurd has been met and everyone knows who they are, and President Wade, Ecowas and the UN have held the meetings with the rebels, when do you think we might see the Liberian government and the Liberian rebels at the same table, talking?
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This process should lead to an all-Liberian meeting. I believe the issues at stake do not only concern the Liberian government and Lurd. The political parties have a stake, because they want to see conditions created in Liberia which will allow them to campaign and engage in a process of seeking power next year, when the current mandate of the current Liberian government is up.
So I think, at the backs of our minds, we should all be working, in creating those conditions of peace and security for all, to enable Liberians to engage in legitimate political activity, leading to elections that should be free and fair to choose the next government of Liberia in October 2003.
There were many African leaders here in Durban for the launch of the AU, but with the notable absence at the inaugural summit of President Taylor of Liberia and three other regional leaders. How do you interpret the fact that Taylor missed this historic summit?
This was an historic occasion and I wish that all of our regional heads of state had been here, but for various reasons - some of them national - some were unable to attend. Three of our West African leaders, the Ivorian, Laurent Gbagbo, the president of Sierra Leone, Ahmad Tejan Kabbah, President Charles Taylor - and indeed the president of Guinea, Lansana Conte - were not able to come for domestic reasons. But they were ably represented, in the case of Liberia, by the vice-president.
But what signal does it send when four West African leaders, out of 15 that are member states of Ecowas, dont show in Durban?
Oh no. They had very legitimate reasons. In the case of President Kabbah, we all know that he was preparing for his inauguration and he had invited many heads of state and I suppose he wanted to stay home to ensure that the process went smoothly.
Similarly, as you know, Cote dIvoire was engaged in local elections and I know Guinea has also recently come out of legislative elections and there were certain fall-outs from that and I think the president stayed home to ensure that the legislature takes off on a smooth operation when it convenes.
And Liberia?
Well we know theres war in Liberia and I believe the president has to stay to ensure that the minimum peace and security there is maintained.
What we hope, of course, is that very soon we can get the government and Lurd to talks to try to bring permanent peace to Liberia, create conditions in which all Liberians can feel safe and secure in their country and engage in normal, ordinary life - political or otherwise - without any concern that their lives may be at risk.
