Abidjan — Four weeks after the rebellion began in Cote d'Ivoire, President Laurent Gbagbo speaks about the crisis in his country.
Gbagbo granted an interview to Caroline Dumay and Anne Boher of the Paris-based Le Figaro newspaper and allAfrica.com's Ofeibea Quist-Arcton, in his office at the presidential residence in Abidjan this week.
The Ivorian leader talked at length about the attempted coup d'etat of 19 September, the rebels, West African mediation efforts, his goverment's response and the possible impact and outcome of the conflict that has rocked his country and the region. Extracts follow:
You said in your last televised address to the nation that the conflict had to end quickly, either peacefully or by war. Do you maintain that positition?
More so now than ever. We have chosen to follow the negotiation route and we are still on that road. Otherwise what was the point of going to Accra, Ghana (for the emergency summit of the Economic Community of West African States (Ecowas) on 29 September 2002)? We are still waiting for the assailants, the attackers, to sign the Ecowas peace deal that we have already agreed to sign, the proposals of the Ecowas heads of state.
Either we give up on the negotiations or we must look deeper into the situation. Whatever the case, I, as head of state, have to manage both public opinion and an army. I can't just go round and round in circles listening to rumours and humouring people. I want them to behave responsibly, so that we can be done with this once and for all !
But on Monday, the mutineers were very clear about their position. They held a press conference and announced that they were suspending all negotiations
But they didn't say that to me! You have to distinguish what they say to journalists and in the media in news conferences and what they are saying to the West African envoys! Don't forget, I hear both sides. But I'm waiting to hear a definitive answer through diplomatic channels. Even if the response is the above, I'm waiting for them to tell the Ecowas mediators exactly what their reply is. From there we can decide what goes next.
And if they refuse to sign, are you ready to go to war ?
It's not a matter of being ready. If they refuse to sign, then we are obliged to go to war against them. Listen, we didn't declare war. They imposed it on us. If regional mediation fails, and I've accepted negotiation, you can't expect me to stand by while part of my country is occupied. If they refuse mediation, I have no other choice but to go to battle. So your question is one that you should put to them, because I won't have any option but to go to battle if they refuse to sign.
The rebels say that you have brought 500 Angolan soldiers into Cote d'Ivoire and that's why they were pulling out of the talks. What's your response to this accusation?
Accusation? Really, how can people who have recruited mercenaries accuse me? Don't make me laugh. It doesn't make sense to talk about an accusation. A sovereign state has the right to sign accords with whomever it pleases. They talk of 500 Angolan troops, but we also have 600 French soldiers, even more now, on our territory. Why don't they talk about them? I am a head of state. I have the right to sign agreements with anyone I choose. If I want to ask for Angolan soldiers, or Liliputians or Georgians or Americans or Nigerians - or troops from anywhere else in the world - I am perfectly within my rights as a sovereign head of state to do so. That is not the issue.
And for the record, there are no Angolan soldiers here in Cote d'Ivoire.
So precisely what has come from Angola ?
Lots of things have come to us from Angola. But not from the government. There are private companies in Angola, and many of them sell weapons and military supplies. It's very difficult, when there's an emergency like we're experiencing now, to ask for state-to-state assistance. We bought arms and munitions when the crisis started. We paid for them and now they are being delivered. But these are private deals, okay. Where's the problem in that? Wherever we have to go and buy to back up our supplies and our military capacity, we will go.
What about the armoured vehicle that broke down near downtown Plateau, was it part of the Angolan military supplies you ordered?
That vehicle did not break down! It was flagged down, because the police patrolling in that area had not been alerted that it would be coming. I received a call to say that it had been surrounded, because residents in the Marcory and Treichville area thought there had been another coup d'etat and that there were attackers in the armoured vehicle. Let me tell you that we have bought a number of them. Others will start appearing. That one is far from the last you'll see.
What about the battle for the cocoa capital Daloa in the west. Loyalist troops went on the offensive when you were busy with negotiations. Does this belligerent stance by the government augur well for mediation efforts? Is it a bad sign ?
A bad sign from whom? Listen, while we were negotiating and I told my soldiers to ceasefire, the rebels went ahead and took Daloa. So I told the Ecowas negotiators that that I had given my troops orders to recapture Daloa that very night. I mean, we were right in the middle of negotiations and they were busy trying to advance in a pincer movement towards Daloa and toward M'Bahiakro. They failed, but obviously we can't just sit there with our arms crossed. While we're in discussions, and my soldiers are staying in their positions, they are trying to advance and they seize Daloa and try to take M'Bahiakro. That's why we retook Daloa. Simple.
France, the former colonial power, has once again called for an immediate ceasefire. What's your view on that?
You know what, it is not France that has been attacked. Our friends have come to our assistance. If France wants to help us, she will. But remember it is not France that has been attacked. Cote d'Ivoire has been attacked. I cannot speak for France. I am not the French head of state.
Were you caught unawares by the rebellion?
There is always that element of surprise and a feeling that you have been caught short when such a thing happens. But we knew that something big was being planned. We knew that the first targets would be the homes of (the late Interior Minister, Emile) Boga Doudou and of (the ex-Defence Minister Moise) Lida (Kouassi). All the intelligence agencies had that information. So I suppose we weren't really surprised, but we didn't have the specifics - the time and the place. We tried to prepare ourselves and take the necessary precautions, but we really didn't know when this would happen, when they would strike. These people have been plotting for more than a year, since January 2001.
We received information a few months ago that a coup was planned. From 10 August, about thirty people were arrested. What they had to say to the police implicated certain others. Our police force took the necessary action, like the police anywhere else in the world would. But the people who were not implicated, where there was no conclusive proof, were released.
But how do you explain a coup bid at this moment?
I'm still trying to work that out myself. You know, and I say this without pride or exaggeration, but I have done more for national reconciliation, for democratisation and for national dialogue than any of my predecessors. I have met all my political opponents and all the political parties and parliamentary groups and NGOs and the unions and associations at the presidential palace -- to talk, to try to explore their grievances and discontent. I have listened to everyone. Anyone who wanted to speak, spoke. Everyone who wanted to be heard was heard. That's why we organised the national reconciliation forum that lasted 3 months. Everything seemed to be in order.
I met my three predecessors in Yamoussoukro for two days, as people had requested, and we came to an agreement. Since then we have applied in spirit all that was decided. So, I really can't understand it. I included representatives from all the main opposition parties in my government and yet, hardly a month after that time, after the creation of that national union government, things blew up. I can't say why, I'm asking myself the same questions.
Really no one could have done better or made changes more quickly than I have. That's why I say that I feel betrayed - not betrayed by any one person, but betrayed because of the effrorts I have made. No political leader has been as free as they are now under the Gbagbo leadership. I mean as an opposition leader I was sent to jail four times, none of my opponents have gone to prison since I came to power. I have taken measures to ensure that every former president, prime minister and national assembly president would have the means to live a decent life. Everything was in place.
So if you come up with a reply, please hurry back here and tell me, because I certainly can't work out why!
What about the army?
No, no.
But it's exactly one month since the attempted coup, as you have called it, yet still we don't really know who has challenged your authority. Do you have any idea who it might be?.
During the 1st World War, in 1914 they spoke of the " drole de guerre " ( " what a funny old war " they said). The same expression is as appropriate for Cote d'Ivoire in 2002. We can all surmise that there are people involved in this other than the rebel corporals and sergeants who are on the frontlines. But in the meantime, we are simply fighting against the armed people who have attacked us. There are two significant things about them. They are all low-ranking, junior soldiers. The most senior must be an adjutant, I think. The second thing is that they went into exile before I came into power. I have no personal problems with them. I wasn't the one who forced them in to exile. They left Cote d'Ivoire before 22 October 2000, the date of the elections that brought me to power. Tuho Fozie, (one of the rebel commanders in Bouake), for example, he left on 9 October 2000. We have all these details. But I wasn't sworn in until 26 October.
Wouldn't it be easier to reach a negotiated settlement if you knew who you were dealing with and what they want from Cote d'Ivoire ?
Of course. But it's for them to tell us who is behind them, who there backers are, where they're getting their money from! Maybe that's why they're not in a hurry to sign an agreement and negotiate. I have accepted the principle of negotiation, my team is standing by. I said that if the attackers are ready to sign, then they must give me a list of their demands, not so that I cross them out, but so that I can give instructions to my negotiators. It's not for me to say who's behind them if they don't want to tell us.
I haven't laid down any preconditions. I'm going by the text of the Accra statement. It says that the Ecowas contact mission should contact them and that they should lay down their arms and then start negotiations with the government. Those are points 8 and 9, so I'm not insisting on any conditions.
But the rebels said that they were pulling out of the negotiations because they don't have confidence in you President Gbagbo, that you are not sincere and that you were negotiating in bad faith while preparing a military counter-offensive. They are demanding your resignation.
Sign up for free AllAfrica Newsletters
Get the latest in African news delivered straight to your inbox
The question should rather be, do I have any confidence in them? But that's not the issue. They are army deserters after all. They took part in the 1999 coup d'etat that brought (the late General Robert) Guei to power. Maybe he wasn't the one they wanted to put there. So he was installed meanwhile until they could put their chosen champions into office. But they saw that Guei got a taste for power and then they tried to unseat him. Guei took them to trial and they were convicted. So I can't understand why they've taken against me, why they've got it in for me. It really is Kafkaesque. Why me? Why? But just because you don't have confidence in someone, does that mean you should try to kill them? Well in that case how many people would there be left in the world?
But they are asking for you to go and for fresh elections.
But are they candidates? Ask them that. They should let those who are prospective candidates speak.
What proof do you have that this attack has come from outside Cote d'Ivoire?
The very fact that these deserters were in exile, living in a certain country, receiving military training there, going around the region look for recruits That is what we're talking about when we say outside powers are implicated. Now if that's not enough proof, I don't know what is.
People are asking that, if it's a matter of saving Gbagbo or saving the Cote d'Ivoire, would you agree to step down to save your country?
This country is not in danger! Cote d'Ivoire has been threatened by deserters from the army who have managed -- I'm not quite sure how or where -- to buy arms and recruit mercenaries and who have come back. Our only duty is to defend ourselves. It's as simple as that. I do not understand how these low-ranking soldiers, who bet on the wrong horse at a given time, should now be making all these demands of an elected leader. No, that's not serious. I mean, obviously we can't just sit there with our arms crossed!
This war is obviously going to have an indelible impact on Cote d'Ivoire. The rebels control the predominantly Muslim north and the centre, the government still holds the mainly Christian south. So are you worried that this conflict could lead to a north-south partition?
There will be no north-south partition. No one is advocating secession, neither the intellectuals nor the peasants. I repeat, there is going to be no partition between the north and the south and there will be no secession. Yes, this will will have a negative impact, but it will also reinforce a sense of national feeling. People will understand that better a quarrel in a nation that is still standing, than dabbling in war. Ivorians will come to understand that war is no joke.
