Washington, DC — Economic sanctions could undermine the peace effort Liberian foreign minister Lewis Brown has told United Nations Secretary general Kofi Annan. "They serve no useful purpose" now, he says and place a "stigma" on the west African nation.
Brown dismissed suggestions that former Liberian president Charles Taylor represents a threat to efforts to fashion a new government. Nigeria's President Olusegun Obasanjo has warned Taylor about behavior in violation of the conditions on which he gave him asylum in Calabar, Nigeria.
But sporadic violent clashes between government troops and rebels are indications of the fragile state of the peace despite an accord signed in August. Yet the interim government of which Brown is a member is just days from a hand over, on October 14, to a broad-based transitional government, and Brown insists that despite seeming instability, an overwhelmingly popular desire for peace after fourteen years of civil conflict will protect the transition.
Meanwhile, some 800 Bangladeshi troops - the first of 15,000 troops approved for Liberia by the United Nations - are being flown in by helicopter and the UN predicts that by Thursday, Monrovia should be a "weapons-free zone." As more troops arrive, the United Nations will seek to disarm militias around the country, says the head of the UN mission, Jacques Klein.
A large question hanging over Liberia's future centers on the indictments of Taylor by the Special Court for Sierra Leone - a war crimes tribunal. Taylor has found sanctuary in Nigeria and his lawyers will later this month be arguing before the court that the indictments are invalid. One argument Taylor's lawyers are making is that the former Liberian president could not be indicted for recruiting child soldiers because there were no international statutes against it.
Taylor is also arguing that since he was a head of state when he was indicted he should be immune from prosecution under international law. AllAfrica.com's Charles Cobb Jr. spoke with foreign minister Brown about these and other issues affecting Liberia's immediate future. Excerpts:
Both the government of Nigeria and the United Nations have criticized Charles Taylor since he has been in Nigeria, saying that he is still manipulating the situation in Liberia. Is he doing so?
Those reports notwithstanding, the focus of the international community has to be on the desire of the people of Liberia. I think it's a tidal wave in favor of peace that cannot be reversed - in favor of stability, in favor of democracy. So, I'm not in a contest as to whether or not Mr. Taylor is making calls from his abode to Monrovia. But what I can say is that Mr. Taylor, if he has any desire to influence the process [in Liberia], to reverse it - I think that desire is useless.
The general will of the people points in the direction of peace and there is no one who can reverse that process.
I was asking the question because I know you have been asking for a lifting of the sanctions on Liberia and so the question of how much influence Mr. Taylor has or doesn't have presumably will influence the decision about lifting them.
Yes, we have been calling for the lifting of the sanctions. For all intents and purposes they do not serve any useful function. I fail to see how a country with the stigma of international sanctions can benefit from the investment that will be necessary to energize the private sector to deal with the issues of post-conflict reconciliation and reconstruction. One cannot deny that sanctions impose a stigma on the country and until that stigma is removed there will be little, if any, effort to revive the private sector which is even needed to help facilitate the process of disarmament, demobilization and reintegration.
Do you anticipate sanctions being lifted any time soon?
It is my anticipation that a review will take place and perhaps a gradual lifting [of sanctions] will be obtained.
What about the war crimes tribunal underway in Sierra Leone that has indicted Mr. Taylor and now is sending investigators into Monrovia itself to investigate other Liberians who may have been involved in Sierra Leone's conflict? Do you think Mr. Taylor should stand trial? Or do you think some kind of deal can be reached, some kind of plea bargain?
I don't know about the legal ramifications, but what I've said about the Special Court of Sierra Leone is [that] it is unique, it is new and unprecedented. We ought to be concerned about the effect of an indictment of a sovereign or the trial of a president is going to have on the already chilly relationship between Sierra Leone and Liberia. I think not much thought has gone into that aspect. All of us want justice. The question that is begging is that if there is going to be a trial, should that trial be in Sierra Leone? I think there are a number of legal and procedural matters that should be resolved. We ought to pay attention to what the people of Liberia and the people of Sierra Leone desire. People should be concerned about what the interest of the people of Liberia and Sierra Leone are. I do believe that there should be accountability for actions that did take place but I think it should be up to the people to make that decision as to how they want their leaders to be accountable to them.
But what about Mr. Taylor who has already been indicted although he has been indicted in another country? There is a 17-point bill of particulars on him. Do you think he should stand trial in Sierra Leone?
Well, he has answered the charges, I understand. So that process is moot. I think Mr. Taylor has answered the charges and filed a counter suit.
Yes, he has filed a counter suit but he hasn't appeared before the court.
Oh, you are talking about whether he should be made to appear before the court.
Yes. Exactly.
Well, there are those who believe that in the interest of peace - some of them responsible members of the international community - that right now it may be useful for Mr. Taylor to be removed from the scene and to be in Nigeria. I think just that departure, that gesture to have Mr. Taylor removed from the scene and placed in Nigeria, helped to create the signing of the peace agreement on the 18th of August. Growing out of that agreement we now have United Nations resolution 1509 which provides for 15,000 UN forces to be deployed in the country. So I think there have been more positives than negatives.
Now to answer your question squarely, whether Mr. Taylor should be made to appear, my answer is not a yes or a no but that it has to take into account the desire of the people of Liberia and not some other individual sitting somewhere else. And I think the desire for the people of Liberia andSierra Leone is for peaceful coexistence and one has to think whether or not [Charles Taylor's appearance before the Court] will lend itself in support of their general desire.
You were a top aide to Mr. Taylor and one of the key negotiators for the Liberian government at the peace talks in Ghana. Do you think this whole process has been fair? I mean both the process that resulted in Mr Taylor having to leave office and the process that led to his indictment in Sierra Leone?
I'm not worried about fairness. Sometimes you do things that are necessary. Even if one were to pronounce on fairness or whatnot, I don't know what useful purpose that would serve. What I do think is that the interests of the people of Liberia and Sierra Leone matters in this process. And I think that the analysis that has attended these decisions have not taken into full account the desires of the two countries to live in peace. I think it has been playing more to external desires than the desires of the people in the two countries to live in peace.
So, is it necessary to develop a scapegoat so that can happen? Well if [peace] is the net effect [of bringing Taylor before the tribunal]then it may be necessary. If it is not necessary to do so and it will not give that net effect then we ought to be audacious enough to say, 'Look, it will not derive that effect so let's look at it [some other] way.' That's where I am. I am not into the "fairness" and the "truth." There are things that happen in the world that are driven by necessity rather than by fairness.
I, of course, am in Washington, DC, quite some distance from Liberia. But we hear concerns from Liberians that I'd like you to respond to. One is that this interim government is scheduled to be replaced on October 14th by a power-sharing government that includes the two rebel groups Lurd and Model, neither of which are particularly democratic. There are fears that what's being set up won't be much better than Mr. Taylor's government.
Well, like I said, some things have to be done because there is a need to do it, because it is necessary for the process. We had to get out of the war. We had to end the bloodshed. The agreement that was signed on August 18 will not give the people of Liberia peace. The agreement should end the bloodshed and provide the atmosphere for the people of Liberia on a more civil, in a more non-violent way, to determine what the problems are and seek long-standing solutions to those problems. So, whether or not Lurd is a democratic organization, whether or not Model is a democratic organization, I am assured by the collective desire of the Liberian people that if either of the groups seek, or collectively seek, to undermine the overpowering desire of the people of Liberia, they will hurt themselves. So, to the extent that this agreement now provides an opportunity for us to peacefully resolve long-standing political questions I think it has been useful, and I think that all of us should welcome the opportunities [it provides].
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Well, at the risk of sounding like a cynical Washington reporter, you sound fairly optimistic representing a country that since 1980 has been typified by government established by the power of the gun.
Yeah, I am optimistic because I appreciate the understanding of the people of Liberia. I know that we are at the point where we have recognized fully the disutility of continued violence and our desire is to live together as members of one family, one nation determined to do the best for the country. Perhaps I draw my optimism from that. I hope that I am not being over-optimistic. I know that we will encounter problems as we follow this course but I am assured by the general desire of the people of Liberia that whoever finds himself in the leadership now, has no choice or else you run the risk of being overrun by the will of the people.
Do you intend to stay in government?
No. Right now that is not an option available to me. I am hoping I can continue to be useful, that I can continue to serve in other capacities but not necessarily in government. I think there are many qualified Liberians, very capable Liberians, and the beauty of democracy is to be able to give way peacefully, smoothly and transparently so others can have an opportunity to serve. I am hoping to be one of those who gives way to other qualified Liberians while at the same time remaining engaged with the process so that the peace agreement, which I am also signatory to, can hopefully be brought into useful fruition.
So you don't see some equivalent to the kind of witch hunting and violence that happened when Sergeant Doe took over in 1980 and that accompanied Mr. Taylor's takeover as well?
Well, I think the country will not be better off heading down that road. I think, frankly, there is weariness and we've learned that is a road not to take. We've learned, perhaps the hard way, it's the road not to follow. And I believe that unless we are crazy people - and we are not - that we are going to now take the high road to nation building.
