The GAMING WEEK Team recently engaged Yomi Oketope, Managing Director, Sax Innovative Network Limited, owners of the 9Jackpot casino brand. Oketope, the president of the Association of Casino Owners and Gaming Operators, has a background in advertising which helped him to provide very revealing responses
How did you get into the casino business?
I came into the gaming business by accident. It was not something I planned. The Promatic Group, the owners of Sax Innovative Network Limited, came to Nigeria looking for investors and the possibility of having a gaming business here. There was an Austrian that they met, and they started discussing. Incidentally, that Austrian and I had a joint import/export business. I was managing the business. Eventually, they did their fact-finding and decided to give it a go. They needed a Managing Director to pioneer the business. I was invited, and I met with the directors. They interviewed me and said, 'Okay, we can work with you. Let's start'. That's how I got into the business. The company is in its eighth year.
Talking about the Promatic Group, the parent company of Sax Innovative Network Limited. It is a Polish company, and they have been in the business of gaming for about 22 years. Promatic is the largest manufacturer of slot machines and system solutions for gaming in Poland. So, they were looking for outlets where they could also deploy their slot machines and their solutions. Nigeria was one of the countries that they decided to invest in. We also have a presence in Europe, Latin America, and two or three other African countries.
We have a business model. We partner with agents and partners. Partners are people that own their businesses. Let's say, you have a hotel, a lounge or a bar, and you say, "Ok, I have this space already, I want to go into the gaming business. You will come to us. We'll inspect the place. If it is suitable, we will give you the machines at no cost to you. But you cannot expand beyond that location unless you have another hotel. Those are ones we call partners. We have agents. Agents are people who want to make a business of gaming. They are not restricted to any location. They don't even need to have any location of their own. They will go out looking for locations that are promising, they will rent them, and we would supply them with machines. So, they can have as many as 20 locations, but partners have one or two. That is the difference. Of course, 9Jackpot has its cafes which they own 100 per cent. Like the VI branch, it is owned 100 per cent by Sax. We also have it in FESTAC. We have one in Calcutta Crescent, Apapa. We own all those locations 100 per cent. When we work with agents and partners, we do not have interest per se. They run those businesses, and at the end of the month, we do the accounting together and they give us a percentage. That is a model we are running.
How would you describe what happens in the casino business? What do you really do?
When you say casino business, the term is too encompassing. In the casino business, we have two different sectors, though related. In a full casino, apart from slot machines, we have table games like baccarat and poker games. Those are games of skill. Those are full-fledged casinos. We also have slots. Slot machines are purely a mystery game. What it means is you don't need any skill. It's a matter of luck because whether you win or lose, it is random. It is a computer that controls it. Nobody can predict when somebody is going to win. But for those table games, there is an element of skill. 9Jackpot is in the slot gaming sector. We deal only with slot machines. Promatic, which is a parent company, is the manufacturer of slot machines. They also provide the software that drives the machine. That is the advantage that we have because the parent firm is both the manufacturer of the slot machines and also the provider of the software. For other companies, you get the slot machines, and you have to get another company that will provide you with the software.
Have you completely eliminated the use of coins on slot machines?
We do not use coins anymore, but in some casinos that deploy slot machines, you can still make use of tokens. Each token has a value which you slot in, but those are few now. The most common now are slot machines that accept cash directly. If you want to play a large volume, there is a key that the cashier will use to key in any amount you want to play. For instance, if you want to play N50,000 and you have N500 notes, it will take time for you to slot in each note. Rather than do that, you'll use your card to pay the cashier, or you'll do a transfer. Once they receive it, they use a key to put in the amount that they want to play. You'll see it appear, and then you'll start playing. Lastly, which is very common with most casinos: you have a card system where you pay the cashier, and they will output a card of that value, so once you get there, you will scan it, and then the value will appear on the screen, and you'll start playing. Once you've completed your play and you want to end the game, the machine will print out the amount that you are cashing out. Maybe you won N70,000 now, and you want to end your game. The machine would give you a card, you take it to the cashier, and they scan it and give you the value. Those are the various types of slot machines.
What are some biggest changes in government policies or innovation in tech that you have dealt with?
It is the gaming company that dictates the technology, not the government. The government, most times, is playing catch-up because the gaming companies are always looking at advanced technology to drive the game and make it more interesting and more user-friendly. For example, some advanced countries accept Bitcoin now. You can use Bitcoin to play. In Nigeria, we do not recognise that. What is happening is once there's a new technology, the lottery regulator will have to understand the new technology. And then if they need to amend the computer. How does the lottery board monitor it? They will ask you to give them access to the backend. You have to provide the back end to them. Whatever is going on online, they are monitoring it.
Does this happen regularly?
Oh, yes. Like sports betting companies, they have to give the regulatory body their backend. At the end of the month, they also know how much you've made, and based on that, you will pay what they call 'good causes' to the government. The government uses that to provide amenities to the people. Unfortunately, people are not aware of that. Even in Lagos State, they use it to provide fire fighting equipment, fire vehicles, and a lot of things... to renovate schools. They do all that through good causes.
Are there any moves to incorporate the use of Bitcoin in what you are doing today?
In Nigeria, unfortunately, even the government, through the CBN, does not recognize Bitcoin as having monetary value. They, in fact, disallow it. Because as far as government is concerned, Bitcoin does not have a particular value behind it, like, let's say, gold reserve. It is just a value that is driven by the markets. And so, it's so volatile. Also, it is easier for people that want to launder money through Bitcoin, and you find it very difficult to track. In fact, some companies that accepted it before are beginning to clamp down on it now. In Nigeria, Bitcoin is not accepted.
What were some difficult decisions you took in the roles leading up to where you are now?
A lot of challenges. Because the rules are always being updated, and you have to be up to date. Because there are sanctions if you do not follow the rules. Most people do not understand that the gaming business is one of the most regulated businesses in Nigeria. There statutory reports that you have to file every month to the authorities. That is, EFCC, through SCUML and the Nigerian Financial Intelligence Unit (NFIU). I will not go into the details of those reports. Then we have the challenge of detecting addiction.
I'm talking about my own sector, because the gaming law has a regulation on how to deal with gaming addiction, and it is something we have experienced. When you notice that somebody is addicted, you need to speak with the person and counsel him to seek help. Within that time, you must disallow him from coming in to play. We have trained our managers to detect people that have addiction problems. There is a particular case of a Caucasian who came to Lagos. He was working with one of the governments in the South-East. He was ill, and he came to Lagos for medical attention. Along the way, he discovered one of our locations. He got addicted to the game. And they called my attention to it. I went there to speak with him. I said, 'Look, you came for medical attention. Now you are okay. You need to go back to your job'. He said yes, that he was willing to go back, but he didn't have money. So I said, 'Okay, how much is your flight ticket?' I told the accountant to arrange it and give it to him to go back. Immediately I turned my back, he started playing again. So they called me and said, 'Look, this guy is still here playing'.
What I did was buy the flight ticket, take him to the airport and wait until he boarded his flight before I left the airport. So, the regulators have imposed on the operators the rules for dealing with a player that is addicted. We have to educate our staff to watch out for signs of addiction. When they notice it, they escalate it to me, and we find the solution to it.
We designed a form that you will have to complete, authorising us to exclude you from entering our cafe. And when you come back and say, 'Look, I think I'm okay now. I can play', there is another form that you are going to fill out saying you have sought professional help. I am okay, and I want to be admitted again.
Another challenge that we have, majorly, is infrastructure challenges, which affect all businesses in Nigeria. It's a major problem. Without energy, we are dead. Our cafes operate 24 hours. What it means is if there is no power for two weeks, the generator must be running. When you are on a power supply, and the light goes off, the machine shuts down, and somebody who is playing believes he is going to win with the next roll. He would be mad. We have to invest in inverters so that when the light goes off, within the period of putting on the generator, you can continue to play. Now, when we started, we were buying diesel for about N200, now diesel is about N800, and it forms a huge input into our cost structure, but we don't have a choice.
Another issue is security because you operate 24 hours. Now that we are going cashless, the amount of cash we deal with is less, which is good for us. But it has a negative impact on the business generally because the small players just want to walk in and play N1,000, and go. They may not even have an ATM card, so he finds it difficult to play like they used to. That is also a challenge. The Naira redesign posed a challenge to us with even something as common as water supply. People drink. They take drinks, soft drinks, and beer. When you are playing, you want to cool down. It's hospitality business. But the water here in VI is not clean enough.
We've sunk about three boreholes in VI, yet we could not get good water, so we have to provide water treatment. Somebody comes out every month to check. Because you cannot use water that is not clean to wash even the glasses that they use to take the drink. So, all those little things that people take for granted elsewhere, are a big headache for us. Take the issue of the internet. All the machines are networked all over Nigeria. We are present in about 16 states and Abuja, and for us to drive our jackpot, we have a three-level jackpot, to drive it, you need 24 hours internet connection. Otherwise, some players will be excluded from the jackpot. It's a major headache trying to provide uninterrupted internet access all over Nigeria. Thank God for Elon Musk and Starlinks. So that's what we're exploiting. We are experimenting with it. If we have that, we are able to solve the problem of internet access. So, you can imagine all the challenges that come with running a cafe. When you look at it from the outside, you'll think that it's so easy. But when you look at it, you will see that it is not easy at all. I was at a conference in Abuja organized by ECOWAS, and somebody was saying, from the regulatory side that after oil, gambling is the biggest money spinner. And those of us that are in the gaming sector started laughing, because that is what you see from the outside. This is not so. Let me give an example, in our sector, there is a minimum amount which must go back to the player as winning. If people play N100, about N90 to N95 goes back as winning. What we get is the N5 or the N10, and there are times when some machines even give a negative return. From the 10 per cent is where you will take care of all of these challenges, including your overhead, staff salaries, and training. So, it's not as lucrative as people think. A lot of casinos have closed shop, and a lot of betting companies closed shop because of these challenges. Maybe if we have a country where we have good infrastructural facilities, then, maybe it might be easier, but for now, every day comes with different challenges.
Any recurring issues or problems in the industry or the company that you have not found a way around?
Security is one. You see, when people visit you, you want to give them an assurance that they are safe, and the only people that are allowed to carry a weapon are the policemen. You can't bring soldiers here. It has to be policemen. And, you cannot bring regular policemen, it has to be policemen from SPU, the Special Protection Unit. In the last 12 months or so, we've been trying to get more policemen from SPU, but we have not been able to get them because a lot of people require these SPU policemen, even for personal protection. So, it has been a very big headache for us.
We have bouncers, but in addition to bouncers, we also provide policemen because some people are difficult customers. We don't have many of them but the major challenge is people coming from outside, hoodlums, trying to disturb your customers. You want to guarantee their safety. For that, you need security, and it is a problem for us getting extra policemen to man our cafes. We have them in some cafes, but in other cafes, we still have a problem getting them. It is a major challenge for us.
For your statutory report, you know when you do not file it on time, there are penalties. These statutory bodies can come in anytime and check your books. That is, EFCC because there is a focus on a campaign by the Federal Government against money laundering, and the gaming business is seen as one of the vulnerable areas for money laundering. There are reports we have to file to EFCC, to NFIU. Before we can even register a gaming business, your staff must be trained, they must go to SCUML training by EFCC.
And then you have the NFIU, too. In fact, there is a training coming up in May where we are sending most of our management staff to attend so that we can always bring them up to date. So, that we'll be in compliance with government directives. Another big challenge is foreign exchange. Accessing foreign exchange. For example, in the gaming business, you cannot source forex from the CBN. You cannot remove or source it from the open market. You can only buy inflows, that is, Nigerian companies that earn dollars. They are the only ones that can give you inflows that you can use to pay your vendors, because all these machines are so expensive, we pay for them on an instalment basis. Also, the software, we pay for it every month.
Once they turn off your software, those machines are as good as decoration. Even if you're able to source inflow, which you will get at a premium, because they know you can't get it from the Central Bank, you can't get from the black market. If you get it from the black market, you can't send it out. Now to even send it out, it's a huge problem. Everyone in the gambling industry is facing this issue because they tell you that you need to get this certificate, and when you go to the authorities that are giving the certificate, they will tell you they are not even giving any gaming company. Meanwhile, you have to pay your suppliers and your vendors. It is a big challenge for the industry in general.
What understanding do you need from society and the government for casinos to succeed?
From the citizens, first, there are some cultural practices and beliefs that are hindering the growth of this sector, generally. It is both cultural and religious. When people see you gambling, they see you as irresponsible. The church will say, 'Look, gambling is bad'. So, there's a negative perception of gambling, whereas gambling is a lifestyle. There is no way you want to earn income from tourism that you will not have the gaming sector. Because when the tourists come in, they are looking for the nearest casino because they are used to it. For them, it's a lifestyle. It's entertainment. It's part of hospitality. But here, we still have a negative perception. So, people hide because they want to play, which is where online has an advantage.
Because online, while you're in your house or you're playing, nobody knows you're playing when your money comes to your wallet. Some people are careful not to be seen they are gambling. We need to change that perception. Gaming should be seen as a lifestyle. The only thing you need to watch out for is addiction, and there's nothing you do that you cannot be addicted to. Some are even addicted to food. Some people are addicted to common drugs that we use. They abuse it. Anything that you abuse, will not work out well for you. Gaming is not different from other things that can be abused.
Let me give you an example: in Nairobi, Kenya, the population is just 4 million. They have over 100 casinos to service about 4 million people. Lagos has a population of about 25 million, and we have just about 15 casinos, and yet those casinos are not doing as well as they should because it's the same people that you will see in Jacaranda that you'll see in Federal Palace. It is the same people that are going around. We need to grow the industry, the more the merrier. Gaming is a business, and we pay all the relevant taxes just like any other business, and it's also an employer of labour. If all the gaming companies are to close down today, a lot of people will be out of job. We should see the gaming sector as a business and remove the negative perception. That is on the part of society.
On the part of the government, there is a need for them to understand better what gaming is. A lot of them still don't understand the gaming sector very well. And that's why we encourage interactions between the regulators so that they have a better understanding of the gaming sector. FIRS, EFCC, MFIU, The Lottery Commission. The Lottery Commission, yes, they have a good understanding of the business, but all these other sectors, the CBN, doen't have a good understanding. And that is why in the industry, we've had a running battle with FIRS because they want to VAT stakes. A stake is like a bet people used to play, they want to VAT it. How do you VAT a stake? A stake is not VATable. Because when you play N10, You can win it, or you can lose it. You can play N10, and then, maybe win another N10 or N20... at the end of the day, what do you VAT? If so you're VATing winning. The guy would say, "Oh, so what happens when I lose? Are you going to pay 7.5 per cent of that to me?" So, they still need to understand how it works.
Yes, we can VAT for drinks if we sell drinks to customers, and then we need to pay VAT on it. On contracts, yes, you need to pay VAT, but not on a bet. You can't VAT bet because it is like virtual money. It is very difficult to know what it crystalises. Most of it is virtual. So, it's an ongoing challenge for the industry.
Another big challenge is the issue of dual regulation. Now you have the National Lottery Commission say they have the powers to regulate gaming all over Nigeria. They regulate lottery, they regulate sports betting, and you pay heavily to get that licence. And then when you go to the states to put up your shop, the Lagos State lottery authority will tell you, 'You have to register with us. Otherwise, you cannot operate here. Does the Federal Government have any land?' all the land here belongs to Lagos State. And when you have a problem with Lagos State, and you call on the National Lottery, what can they do? So, in every state, you have to deal with the state lottery authority. And in some states, it is so bad that even the local government, each local government, is regulating gaming. And where did the problem come from? In the Constitution, gaming is not on the exclusive list. It is not on the concurrent list. So, it means it is in the residual, and anything in the residual belongs to the state, but the National Lottery Commission does not agree. They are in court. They are in the appeal courts now.
The state won the first round. So, if the two bodies, the state commission and the National Lottery Commission, can come together, we can just have a uniform commission that will regulate the industry. Then they will have a way of working out a transparent manner on how to share the profits that comes from the business, depending on how many people play in Lagos and how many people play in Anambra, but there must be that understanding, but they are not even talking to each other. Instead, they're going to court. And the National Lottery Commission is trying to introduce a new bill that will put gaming under the exclusive list. So, if that flies, then it means the National Lottery Commission are the only people that can regulate gaming. So, we need to sort this out because it is the operators that are suffering. They have to pay the national, then pay the state. In some states, pay the local governments. So, it's a disincentive to business.
Can you categorise three kinds of people that visit your casino every day?
Normally, there are some categories we do not allow. If we know which sector you are coming from. If you're a banker, for instance, you are not allowed to play. And it is for obvious reasons. So if you are a banker, and we identify you to be a banker, we won't allow you to play. But when you are talking about the category, we have what we refer to as the street market. The street market caters to class C. These are low-income earners. They just want to play N2000. If they win N3000 or N5000, they are out. 'Give me my money', and they are gone. And then you have the class A and B plus, who are people that don't take gaming as a profession. They play for fun. It's a lifestyle for them. They want to interact with other people to share a drink with them, discuss and then play some games before they go home to sleep. There is also a category that I would refer to as professional gamers. Those make a living through gaming. That's where they make their living. And they claim they're able to predict outcomes, even slot machines. Some have skills that they can use in table games or card games. And, like sports betting, for instance, some say they can predict the outcome of a future match fixture, and you have a lot of people making good money from it. Those are professional players. But for our sector, we have the street majorly and the higher class, so we provide for both sectors. We have a location in Apapa. It's like a community on its own. If people don't come in a day, they feel incomplete because they are bonded with each other and they want to see this person, they go there, and they see him. They socialise. They drink. They play the little they want to play, and then they go home and sleep. That's the street market. And then you have the high-end who are the big players, those who can play N500,000, and even when they win, they can give it out to people around them. Those players are enjoying themselves.
But how do you tell a regular from a casual player?
We know our customers, and they know us too. So, the café manager knows the regulars. There are some who just come in. Maybe they travelled to Lagos, maybe they put up in a hotel nearby and they want to play. They come in here, two or three days and they are gone. Some people that we know, in a week, might come in three times. Some in a week might come in four times. And there are some that if you don't see them in a day, you know that this man has not been here today. You know, it is a lifestyle. Just like you would want to go to a pub to relax. And you know we have drinks. We have cigars, and cigarettes, that we can give you, and there are some categories of players that there are no limits to what they want, that we do not give them. There are some you limit what you give them.
Let's say there is an addict who comes to play regularly. You identify him here. What stops him from going to the next location where people don't know him?
That's the challenge. There are so many gaming companies that provide virtually the same products that we're also giving. It might be another brand. If we stop him from coming here, there's no way we can monitor where he goes. He's free.
You have a branch in VI, and there is one in Apapa. When you flag him here, will he also be in the records there?
No. Because the addiction happened here. You understand? We're restricting him from here. Now, if he starts going there to play, they will notice after some time, and they will refer him, probably to myself or the café manager. Whatever happens, it will be escalated to me. Once I hear the name, I will just tell them to stop him from playing there. The only people that we flag in all our cafés are those troublesome customers. Some customers are difficult. They just want to... they're looking for loopholes that they can take advantage of. When we notice it, we ban them from all our cafés. There are some that are a pest to other players. They don't have money, and they start begging other players for money to play. With time, they become an irritant. Once we notice that you are not playing, we ask you nicely to go out.
Can you tell us about a time you requested a casino player to be removed from the casino?
Several times. There are several occasions. We work closely with the police stations around, and an incident happened some time ago: A player was playing, and it was in the night, and while the machine was rolling, the light went out. Unfortunately, the inverter which was supposed to hold the energy also failed. That particular round could not be concluded. He said, "Oh, I would have won. I'm sure I was going to win. It was this light that went off." They explained to him that it doesn't work that way. Once there is a cut in power supply, that particular play is cancelled. And each machine has what you call a journal. The journal records what you play and what you win. If there was a win, it would record that there is a win of a certain amount on a particular machine. When we checked the backend, he didn't win anything, but he said that if we don't pay him, there will be trouble. They called the police to take him out.
The next day, I said they should call him m to the office so that I can explain to him how this thing works. I even showed him the backend. "This was the machine you were playing on at this time. Now look at it, is there any winning there? But to make peace, what you are betting at that time, we will return it." But because he was violent that night, we had to call the police to remove him. We had to stop him. We don't welcome people that are violent. If you have any issue with the interpretation or the outcome of a play, there is a lottery authority. They are the ones you would report to. Not even the police. And the lottery authority will invite you. They will invite us. They have experts and they will look at it and tell you, 'Mr Man, you didn't win'. That is that.
Or they tell the company, 'Please pay him'?
If it was a win, they don't even need to tell us. Once you are a customer and we want your patronage, if you win, it won't get there. It is nothing to us. We want people to win. Because the more you win, the better for us. When people win, we are happy.
Why are you happy?
The whole idea of the game is for you to win. That's why you've come to play. And you are playing against the house. We are the house. You want to win. For example, if you come in with N5,000, and you won N30,000, it will make you happy, and it also makes us happy. Because now you know that what you've been hearing is true. People do win. Even win N1.3 million, N2 million, and N3 million. So, if you win, you are happy. You will have trust in the system. Next time you come and you don't win, you don't feel bad because you will see other people besides you winning. When there is a win, everybody will know. Something will go off, a sound will go off, and you will know somebody has won. So, that is what I said if you are winning, we're happy because we want you to win. There are new partners that we have. If you give them machines and people are winning, they become scared. They will call us and say, 'Oh, they are winning too much. I want to shut down the machine'. I would say, 'No, don't worry. Let them win. We want them to win'. If you win, you will be building trust in the business and people will come back to play. So you win today, you lose tomorrow.
That's the way it is: You win some, you lose some.
Gamblers have a large heart, the real gamers. They know that they're taking a risk, and the higher the risk, the higher the reward. It is not all the time that you're placing a big bet that is good for us. Like sports betting for instance. A sports betting owner was telling me of a customer that placed a bet, that if we had won, it would have cost him about One Billion Naira. And he said he could not sleep because he was afraid. You know some people fix matches globally. "Is it that they fix the match? Or does this guy have a 'pre-knowledge' of it?" He said he could not even watch or listen to the match. He was just waiting for them to call him the next day, so when they called and told him the results, he said, 'Thank God'. He asked them to go and buy a gift of N1 million for that guy. So, at times, some wins can close you down. It is on both sides. For you to be in the gaming business, you have to be highly capitalized because you don't know when the big win will come. And once you are not able to pay a win, the lottery authority will shut you down.
There is a deposit bank guarantee that is with the lottery authority. They will now call the guarantee and use it to pay a winner. Meanwhile, they will revoke your licence and shut you down. People just think you win all the time. No, it's not so. There are some games like in sports betting where people, let's say Liverpool, is playing against a small team. And everybody has calculated that Liverpool is going to win. All over, everybody is putting money into winning even if the return is 10 per cent. When you aggregate it all over, it is in millions. At times you pay out almost a billion. So if you're not financially solid, you will close shop. So that's what it is.
You are in a place where you interface with owners of casinos and workers. I want you to talk about that role: what challenges does it pose to you as president of the Casino Owners Association of Nigeria?
I cannot speak about the other companies, but for this company, I must give kudos to the owners, that is, our parent organisation, Promatic Group led by Pawel Paliwoda. The first thing is this: they tell you not to cut corners. They are very high on ethics and integrity. Obey all the rules of the regulatory bodies. So it makes it very easy for us to tell the staff "don't help us to save money." Apply the rules exactly the way they are. That is the first thing. We're on the same page on that.
Secondly, they take training very seriously. From time to time, we have their technical crew coming in to train our IT. We have an IT unit. And there are times when they have challenges that they can't fix. They use TeamViewer, they work with the IT team in Poland to resolve issues. Thirdly, in the gaming business, your staff are very key. If you do not take care of your staff, you will lose them to the competition. These are people you have spent a lot of money training. One: you are sure of their honesty; their integrity, you can rely on it. If you do not take staff welfare very seriously, it will be like a revolving door. People will just be coming and going. Since we started, when you look at our staff turnover, it is less than five per cent that have left the organisation. Most of the people we started together with are still here. Whatever the law says, as far as they're concerned, they say 'obey it'. If the law says all your staff must have HMO with their dependents, they must have a pension. They must have life insurance, we have everything. We would never ask you not to do it.
Once it is in the laws, and the labour laws say you have to do this.
I have a very high calibre staff. And even when I'm not in the office, I know that things will run as they should. When they get to call me for intervention, they would call me. When we need to call for technical assistance in Poland, they are always there 24 hours to attend to us. Even without being prompted, the parent company has set up an incentive programme which continues year in, year out, to encourage staff performance to put in more effort. For instance, this year, we've already set aside N60 million to reward staff who are high-performers. People are encouraged by this and they put in a lot because they are being evaluated. If you fall within the benchmark, you will go home smiling. I do not have much problem with the directors who are the owners of Sax.
For the association, I am the president of the Association of Casinos and Gaming Operators. We are the gaming operators, that is, people who are into slot machines. While the casinos are full-fledged casinos, like Jacaranda, and Sheraton, they are full-fledged. Like The Green Lion Casio, like Federal Palace, all those full-fledged casinos. Now, the association looks after the interests of that sector of the gaming industry. We look after the interests of the casinos and gaming operators because we have the same challenges, and so we call meetings from time to time when there are challenges. We discuss it, and then we arrange a meeting with the National Lottery Authority to discuss those challenges and to see how they can help us to find a solution to them. Right now, we have about 16 different companies that are part of the association. They are all in Lagos, for now. But the idea is to cover all operators in Nigeria. So, it also acts as a pressure group to speak with one voice when we are discussing with our National Lottery Board. When we are discussing issues with CBN. When we have issues with any of these regulatory bodies, to let them know our concerns and our position. The bookmakers, that is for sports betting, have their group. The lotteries have their group because the challenges are different. So that is what the association does: to represent the interest of this sector of the gaming industry.
What are the typical 24 hours in the life of a casino operator?
We are open every day. The only time we shut down is when the federal government shuts down everybody, like during the election. But when you're having holidays, whether Christmas or so, we are always here. For me, it's an ongoing thing. We have staff on the floor, not the management staff. We're talking about people working in the café. We operate a shift system because we do a 24-hour operation. The accountant, for instance, or the cashiers will work one day, that is, 24 hours nonstop. And then you're off for two days to rest. So, in a week, you work two or three days. So that you have enough time to rest and rejuvenate. It's better than them having to come to do two shifts. In the morning, we have some players that come in in the morning, they are early birds. They come in, they play, and they are off. Then in the afternoon, we have some that come in the afternoon to play, maybe till about seven, and then they go. Then you have the nocturnal, the owls who come in at 1 am, or 2 am, and they play until about 4 or 5 am, and they go.
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Would you say the nocturnal are the big players
I would not say so. I think it has to do with maybe the type of work they do. Some are pensioners. They come in the afternoon, play and then go home to sleep. We have some that will come in the night and play until 4 or 5 am, and they go. Every day, people are coming and going. You might not notice that the staff are changing, what you know is, anytime you come in, there will always be somebody there to attend to you. That is the job we do up here: the human resources, finance, café manager, and quality assurance manager, they are always there making sure everything is running as it should. From time-to-time, maybe on weekends, I might just go to any of the cafes and see what's going on, just spend some time there, and I leave.
But there are people whose job it is to visit and look at the surrounding, the cleanliness, the aesthetics, everything must be in place. Every quarter we give a reward to the best café in terms of the health check, cleanliness and everything. At the end of the year, you now have a reward. Any café that wins any quarter will have a monetary reward, and at the end of the year, there is a trophy that we give to them backed with a cash reward for all the staff that work in that café. People are always looking forward to that, because it is a bragging right, at least, till the next year.
Are there people you have caught trying to rig the system? Is it a common occurrence?
It's not a common occurrence, but most of the players are decent people. Decent gentlemen and ladies. But you have about five per cent that their interests are short-circuiting the system. And with time, even the other casinos, know them, and we exchange information like the association for instance.
There was a time when we had a Lebanese lady, they were two, and they came here to play and while the cashier was distracted, they took some money and went away. Of course, we shared the information with other cafés. They went to another casino. Immediately they got there, those people recognized them, and they didn't allow them to come in. They phoned us, but by that time she had left, otherwise, we could have sent the police to pick them up. There are people like that who are just natural cheats. People that want to short-circuit the system. But they are very few. Once we identify them, we don't allow them to come into the café. Where it is very serious, we report to the lottery authority that this particular person did this and deserves this. They also have an enforcement unit. So they'll deal with it.
You have come a long way, and you must have picked up a lot of things on your way here. What are some of the important lessons you'd like to share?
A lot of experiences. One: the face can be deceitful. Don't be deceived by the way people look. People that you think are innocent, at times, might turn out to be people that will give you problems. Deal with everybody equally, but don't bend the rule for anybody. We're constantly training our staff and letting them know. Let me give you an example of something that happened in one of our cafés, not even in Lagos, but in Abuja. Some of these dubious people, when they come in, they try to attract the attention of the waitress. When they're going, they tip them heavily. They come in to play, normally, you are supposed to pay before you are allowed to play. Now, he comes in, he plays N50,000, and he pays. Another N50,000, he pays. And then he says, 'Please I have cash in the car, just credit N100,000 for me, when I finish playing, I will go and bring the money'. The lady would relax because she has been getting tips and she believes this person is good and says, 'Okay, let me give it to you on credit'.
At the end of the day, you asked for him to pay, he says, 'Let me go to the car', and he disappears. Of course, that's a big problem for the cashier because we've told them we don't allow credit. There is a notice: 'Credit play is not allowed'. Not only us, but it is also a gaming rule set down by the Lagos State Gaming Authority. You should not allow customers to play credits, because when you allow them to play credit, you are encouraging addiction. You should play with what you have. That is why we do not allow credit. And we've made it very clear to them that before you allow anyone to play, make sure that they pay. But you see, we are human. At times they get carried away because these people were generous to them. And at the end of the day, they get shortchanged, and they are left to bear the brunt. The person would just disappear. I've learnt not to accept people at face value. No matter how close you are to me, I can never give you credit. I'll just tell you that the gaming regulation doesn't allow it. Then I have also learned that when you have good staff, you have to value them.
And you must be concerned about their career progression, and encourage them. Those that have a professional career, encourage them to undertake professional courses to build themselves up. They appreciate this, and then in return, you get their loyalty. In return, they give you extra, over and above what you require them to do. That has really helped this organisation. I also learned that there are no challenges that cannot be overcome. You only need to put your mind to it and be innovative and creative, and you'll be able to overcome it.
At times when these challenges come, you think the whole world is going to collapse on your head. But you have to be calm and face it squarely, at the end of the day you would overcome it. Those are a few of the lessons I've picked up. And another thing that I must mention, as staff of a given company, we are not allowed to play. Do you know why? If a staff plays now and he wins, a customer might think that he has knowledge of when the jackpot will drop. They will not have confidence in the system. It is a very grave offence for any of our staff to play. In fact, once you are seen playing with the machine, it will attract a summary dismissal. Now, if I play, for instance, I might show a customer that wants to play how to play, and I will use my money. But in the process, I might win. Now, when I win like that because I didn't have the intention to play, just to show somebody. That winning, I can only take the amount that I used to play, the balance. I will give it to the player to play. I can't put it into my pockets as winnings.
Is this a rule by the company or generally in the industry?
This is a rule of this company.
Are you allowed to disclose how you inspect your gaming equipment?
We have international laboratories that certify the equipment and the software. That is not our responsibility. It is the responsibility of the manufacturer. And all our machines have been certified, and the software, otherwise, we will not be registered by the gaming authority in the first place.
Are you the pioneer president of the association?
The association has been on even before I ever came into the business. In the days of the late Chief Ayoku, and Baba Ijebu, they've had this particular association. But at a time, it went moribund. There was a time when the gaming sector was almost dead in Nigeria. But the association has been registered all that time. So, when the sector started coming up again, all we just did was change the name of the association at the CAC, and then we continued from there. We didn't start it. It was there all the while. I became president about four years ago.
There was a time when mainly Lebanese were most noticeable in this business. Were you there at the time, or do you know about it?
No, I was not there, so I cannot speak much about that time. But now, we have a lot of Europeans coming into the business. The Lebanese, yes, a few gaming companies owned by Lebanese, even all the Chinese, are coming in, especially to casinos. We have a lot of Chinese there. We also have some legal online gaming companies which are fighting against. They are fly-by-night companies. But they have a seamless interchange with the players. They don't even need to go through the local banks for payments. You know, wallet and all that... internationally. Some even take dollars. But it is illegal, and the gaming authorities are closing down on them. But majorly, you have a lot of Europeans coming into the business, and it is good for the business. Not only from Eastern Europe but even from the West.
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Before we can even register a gaming business, your staff must be trained, they must go to SCUML training by EFCC. And then you have the NFIU, too. So, that we'll be in compliance with government directives. Another big challenge is accessing foreign exchange. For example, in the gaming business, you cannot source forex from the CBN. You cannot remove or source it from the open market.
