Germany's Ambassador to Nigeria, Annett Günther, speaks on different bilateral issues and areas of cooperation between the two countries
In this exclusive interview with PREMIUM TIMES, Germany's Ambassador to Nigeria, Annett Günther, talks about several issues including why there are fewer Nigerian students in Germany compared to its Western European neighbours.
Mrs Günther, who has spent a little over two years in Nigeria, also talked about bilateral relations between Nigeria and Germany. Both countries enjoy over 60 years of diplomatic relations.
Excerpts:
Compared to your Western European neighbours, there are fewer Nigerian students in Germany. Can you speak about your observations on why Nigerians are not flocking to Germany?
Mrs Günther: We do not compare ourselves, of course, with the UK or Canada, because as you said, we are completely different as a target country because of the language barrier, which does not necessarily apply to the studies themselves because many go to Germany and study courses in English. But also in your everyday life, of course, you want to be comfortable, and you want to know the language of your host country. So yes, the language barrier is there.
What I see is that the language courses at the Goethe-Institut in Lagos but also online, they are very well booked and can hardly meet the demand for German language courses. They have also extended their exams so that they can be done in Abuja, even though the institute is in Lagos.
I think the demand is very high, and we cannot even meet it. We have 4,000 Nigerian students in Germany, which I think is quite a good number. But of course, we are looking for more, and we would like to have more. So we have to work on two sides, we have to work on the provision of German language course, and we have to make that easily accessible.
Also, as I said earlier, the provision of visa services for those students interested in going to Germany also needs to be accelerated, needs to be made easier.
There are many scholarships offered from Germany. Many Nigerian students, especially postgraduate master's students, go to Germany and we are very happy because those are some of the brightest young people in Nigeria. Actually, we are quite happy and we know we cannot compare to English-speaking countries, of course.
What is the bilateral conversation between Nigeria and Germany on migration, especially with stranded Nigerian migrants in Germany?
Mrs Günther: It has been a subject matter. During Chancellor Scholz's visit to Nigeria, he talked to President Tinubu about it and the president agreed and said, of course, those who are illegally in Germany will be coming back and will be welcome. They can come back and contribute to the development of the country. So there is no dissent about the fact as such, we have a very good cooperation on that issue.
I must say, this is a minority, there are over 80,000 Nigerians living in Germany, working there with their families, happily sending money back, also contributing to the welfare of their families here. So I would not only see migration as a negative topic.
Most recently, and it was also part of the discussion of the chancellor, we in Germany want to invite people to come to us legally. Migration is not a negative topic.
We need people to come to our country, be it from Nigeria, be it from other countries. So we want to invite them to work in Germany, to live in Germany, to also contribute to our economic development.
However, there are regulations and we are already running seven centres here in Nigeria that prepare Nigerians who want to legally move to Germany, prepare them on the legal conditions, on academic issues, and prepare them with skills to go and work in Germany. So, I think it is a two-way story and we have a very good relationship on that issue.
What are the processes in these centres?
Mrs Günther: At the moment, we are still in the process of developing these centres and they work closely together with the labour institutions here in Nigeria. The plan is for people to go there for information, present their credentials and then get advice on how to proceed.
We do not want people to come to be disillusioned, and then you know, lost in the process, having spent money. But I also think that the preparation in those centres - there will be no money involved, you know, it is about information, guidance, about helping these people.
It is not about making money, we are not smugglers, you know. You spend money if you go an illegal way to Germany, and then you find out that maybe this is not the right way. But if you go through the legal process, I think there will be very many success stories beyond the 4,000 students in Germany.
We are also aware that the visa procedures are still too long, but there are processes underway to have more digitalisation of the process, and to outsource some of the decision-making because we are just overwhelmed, I must say, by the huge interest of young Nigerians to go and study or work in Germany. So, this goes hand in hand. We are working on it and we want to be supportive.
What group of skilled workers is most important to the German economy?
Mrs Günther: I think there are no limitations. I think skilled workers and even semi-skilled workers are needed everywhere. But of course, you are right. Most importantly, people are needed in the health sector, in the care industry, for the elderly people. In any other service industry, in hospitality.
I think these are the major sectors, but also, of course, industry, heavy metal production, basically everywhere, but I would say health care and services are at the moment the areas where people are needed the most.
The Deutsche Gesellschaft für Internationale Zusammenarbeit (GIZ) is Germany's development agency. Can you speak about the key areas of development that you are focused on?
Mrs Günther: GIZ is our implementation agency for our development cooperation. Here in Nigeria, the portfolio is a very broad one. But basically, what we can say we want to contribute to economic development, which is a very broad subject. But within that, we always look at developing the youth, skills development, supporting women and other minority groups.
Other areas are agriculture, food security, also skills development in agriculture, and micro-financing for small firms, and companies.
In the youth sector, we support a lot of startups and young tech firms. Wherever the youth wants to develop their skills, where they want to start businesses and in whichever sector, we try to be there. We cannot be all over the country, we cannot be in all 36 states.
Another area for us in our overall cooperation, but also our development cooperation, is climate change and energy subjects. So wherever we can support the development of renewable energy, wherever we can support the replacement, let's say, of generators, by solar equipment, also the development of that industry for young people to start in the renewable energy sector. So this is very important for us also to be supportive in this area.
Of the many projects you are involved in, which are you most proud of?
Mrs Günther: I think we can always be proud of them in every sector. But as I said, I think our Energy Support Programme is a very big one and it is well known. I also think the Youth Skills Development Programme has lots of beneficiaries, and that is well known. So I think these are the main areas of intervention that probably have the most popularity or are best known.
Would you say there is value for money in all of your interventions in Nigeria?
Mrs Günther: Absolutely! We do not develop these projects on our own, we always have negotiations and discussions with the government. Especially with the new government, we see that the development of the economy and the creation of jobs, the support for youth education and skills development is key for the years to come because of the demographic factor that we are all aware of. So we support the government in what the government sees as their own goals.
What was your perception of Nigeria before you moved here to work as an Ambassador?
Mrs Günther: I had been to Nigeria multiple times between 2016 and 2018 because at the time, I was commissioner for humanitarian assistance in Germany, and later I was commissioner for migration and refugees. So in that capacity, I visited Maiduguri in 2016.
I have been to Abuja, negotiating with the government on migration issues and other things. So I knew what I was doing and I knew it was a vibrant country. I was also intrigued because all the topics that I had dealt with before in Germany, exist in Nigeria.
This is where I have expertise. This is where I think I can make a good contribution to our foreign policy. I was ambassador to Kenya, and after Kenya, I thought I wanted to stay in Africa because I love Africa.
So I would not say that my picture of Nigeria has changed too much in the time that I have been living and working here. But it has changed quite a bit in the six years in between because in 2022 when I went to Maiduguri with our minister, we could see what our stabilisation efforts had achieved, how the people were moved back to Ngarannam village that had been rebuilt.
There was a dramatic change and I think I am very proud of our contribution to the stabilisation in the Northeast.
What Nigerian food have you enjoyed the most? How many have you tried?
Mrs Günther: What I like, what I share is Nigerians' love for fish. You hardly ever meet a Nigerian who does not like fish, for most people it is their favourite food. So you get a lot of fish.
Even here, you go to the Mogadishu Barracks, where fish is grilled. Have you been there? Oh, you must; it is fantastic! It is the highlight of Abuja. I also like how spicy Nigerian food is, although not as much as Nigerians do.
Sometimes when I am back in Germany or doing my own cooking, I always want a little more spice and chilli because it does not taste like anything. I have gotten used to it.
What do you think about Nigerian music?
Mrs Günther: I do not have much exposure to Nigerian music but I know it is very famous and it is played all over the world. It is one of the trademarks of Nigeria internationally. I think I should get more involved with the music.
Nigerian clothing?
Mrs Günther: I have a lot of dresses made here. The clothes that we normally wear, are not suitable for this kind of temperature and climate. Also the colourfulness, you know, we are always in our business clothes looking like boring grey people and then you see all these colourful people and you want to be like them.
I have a lady who makes lots of dresses for me. I am a regular at Wuse Market to buy fabric. My sister, cousin, and my daughters, whenever I go home, I supply everybody with dresses. When I went home last year for a big birthday party with lots of friends in Germany, she made a wonderful, traditional Nigerian dress for me, and everybody found that fantastic.
At the 10th German-Nigeria business forum, two agreements were signed in what seemed like a quid pro quo arrangement. Give me gas and I invest $500 million in renewable energy. Will that be an accurate representation of the facts?
Mrs Günther: It is very much correct that many German businesses are interested in getting engaged in Nigeria, in particular, in the renewable energy sector, because this is the way to go. This is where we want to support Nigeria in the implementation of the energy transition plan and part of that is also to help create capacities or awareness capacities for hydrogen production. So I do not think we will import gas from Nigeria to Germany. But how can we use the gas? How can we turn it maybe into hydrogen or LNG?
I think this is a sector where we are very interested in working with Nigeria because I think it is the way to go into the renewables, hydrogen into other greener usage of the existing sources of energy. So this is not a trade-off in that sense.
Speak to me about trade relations.
Mrs Günther: Germany is an export country, Germany relies heavily on its exports. So the more trading partners we can have in the world, the better for us. Our products are well known worldwide, so we want to export where we can. But also because our product are so well known, we also try to work together with other countries and not only export but also to have production facilities in our partner countries.
For instance, one example, Nivea is a German product and many do not know that. It is a German company called Beiersdorf, they produce all Nivea products. They have a production site in Lagos, state of the art, that could be the same thing in Germany.
Because they can hardly meet the demand, they have already planned a second production site to expand their production and to make use of the regional markets.
It is not that we only export to other countries, jobs are created in those production sites. It is also more sensible to produce here, why should we ship those products from Germany to Nigeria, if we can produce them here?
I think there is still room for improvement when it comes to investment-friendly climate, to legislative environment. The financial sector is also at the moment a little bit in a situation that might not necessarily be investment-friendly. But these are all things that can be overcome, that we work on together and the government is quite aware of that. So, I think the trend is clear to come and produce here and to create jobs and skills.
How favourable is the business climate in Germany for Nigerians?
Mrs Günther: It is not different for people from other countries. I mean, everybody can decide for themselves how much they like the business climate in Germany. But I think it is very friendly and very many foreign companies operating in Germany. But it is not different for Nigerians.
Does Germany's support for Israel not come off as double standards when you compare it to its position on the Russia-Ukraine war?
Mrs Günther: I would not say that you can compare the two cases. Russia started a war of aggression against a sovereign state, which is completely unacceptable. It was completely unprovoked. There can be no acceptance and no understanding for Russia terrorising its neighbouring country with the war, killing people there. This is against all international standards and we have to reject that. We support Ukraine in its defence against this war of aggression.
In Gaza, we have to accept the fact that Israel was attacked, also unprovoked, very brutally. People and children were killed, who were just peacefully in their houses or celebrating. This is also completely unacceptable and we have to accept and support Israel's right to defend itself against this aggression and terror.
Of course, we support the fight against terrorism all over the world, terrorism is unacceptable and Israel has the right to defend itself against this terror.
Unfortunately in defending itself against the terror of Hamas, innocent women and children are killed every day in Gaza. How would you respond to this?
Mrs Günther: As I said, Israel has the right to defend itself against terrorism and unfortunately, every military confrontation risks to have loss of civilian life of innocent people.
Each country is held by international law to try to prevent civilian loss in any military confrontation. So we are not saying that Israel is targeting the civilians, they are defending themselves and unfortunately, this causes the loss of civilian life, which of course, we urge Israel and everybody does that, to make sure and try to keep that loss as limited as possible in such a war.
Now that the ICJ has ruled and asked Israel to prevent further deaths in Gaza, will Germany as an ally put pressure on Israel to see that it respects the ruling of the court?
Mrs Günther: I think we have raised and we will continue to raise this question with our Israeli partners at any occasion. There is a very intensive context and German politicians moving back and forth between Israel, and other Arab countries in the region trying to find solutions to the conflict. In each conversation with the Israeli side, we repeat our respect for international humanitarian law, and we urge our partners to also respect international humanitarian law and avoid the killing of civilians. It is not that we are not telling them that this is also our position.
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What is Germany's clear position on the allegations against UNRWA, is this a reasonable position to take?
Mrs Günther: It is a very unfortunate incident. But as I said, we we will continue to support these people. We will work with other organisations. We have increased our support, for instance for International Red Cross by seven million. And our reaction and our future cooperation with UNRWA will certainly depend on the investigations, but we are also in regular contact and discussions about this with our partners because Germany does not act on its own. So we will see what are we doing within the EU.
If we decide to go this way, then we will not do it on our own. We are always in touch with our partners. Germany and the US have been the biggest donors of UNRWA, we will not neglect the needs of the people there, but we will try to find solutions on how we can collectively deal with this situation.
Are you saying that Germany will for now not provide funds to UNRWA but to other organisations who can still attend to the needs of people in Gaza?
Mrs Günther: Yes. Not just any, but our trusted partners.
Security in Nigeria has been worrisome and Abuja has been in the news. Are you concerned about your security?
Mrs Günther: I am personally not concerned about my security in Abuja, but of course, we have seen a shift of insecurity that maybe in the past we thought only happened in the Northeast or Northwest or South.
It is a major problem in many parts of the country. We have seen incidents now closer to Abuja, on the outskirts of Abuja, and of course that is of concern, but I would not say that I am personally targeted or that foreigners per se are at at risk.
It is a general situation that probably speaks of the economic problems of people, maybe other issues or grievances they have with each other that unfortunately are resolved through force. I think it is more of a general phenomenon.
It is not a question of being targeted but that of not knowing who the next person might be.
Mrs Gunther: There are so many other cities in the world where you would not walk in the street in the middle of the night or where you do not go to certain areas at certain times of the day. Abuja is not a very dangerous or criminal city. No, it's not.
It is safe, you can move around. But even in Berlin, there are areas where I do not go to, especially at night. So unfortunately, it is a phenomenon of big cities and Abuja is growing and it is becoming a big city. These are unfortunately phenomena that we see all over the world.
On that backdrop, what kind of security partnership does Germany have with Nigeria?
Mrs Günther: Because improvement of the security situation is a priority of the government, it has become a priority of our cooperation. So for the last three years, we have been, in addition to our stabilisation engagement in the North East/West, we have been very much engaged in the police reform project. Because after the EndSARS protests, even the government realised that something needed to be done to put the police forces in a better position to build trustworthy and capable institutions. So police reform is very important. So we have been very engaged, put a lot of money into that one through UNDP.
With the new administration, we have already signed a new MoU with the National Security Adviser who now also explained that the whole security sector reform is a bigger and very important project and the police, of course, definitely is part of that.
We are going with the Nigerian institutions in that direction, and we will continue our support. And beyond that, we also have in the military area, we have a technical advisory group that works on five different projects currently supporting various military installations, institutions in infrastructure, in training and development, to also empower the army, and military forces to do their job. There is quite a heavyweight engagement in the security sector for us, and we think it is important to do that.
