Governor Lawal also speaks of the motives of the terrorists and why he and some Northern Nigerian governors travelled to the US.
In April, 10 northern governors, including Dauda Lawal of Zamfara State, were in Washington D.C. to attend a United States Institute of Peace-hosted event with the theme: "Advancing Stability in Northern Nigeria. A Strategic Conversation with Nigeria's Governors."
While in the US, Governor Lawal spoke with PREMIUM TIMES' White House Correspondent, Pearl Matibe. In the interview, the governor discussed the benefits of the trip and the challenges Zamfara State is facing in fighting against insecurity and eradicating terrorism, locally called banditry.
Excerpts:
PT: Good afternoon, Governor Lawal. Thank you for your time today. I know you have an extremely busy schedule. You've had, in fact, a very busy week here in Washington. Earlier this week on Tuesday, you were part of a panel that was hosted by the United States Institute of Peace on the event Advancing Stability in Northern Nigeria. Thank you so much for your time and welcome. Could you give me an overview of what is the chief security issue in your state?
Lawal: Well, thank you for this opportunity. As you rightly pointed out, Zamfara is one of the states that is facing serious security challenges, part of which is banditry as well as kidnapping. It is something that has been going on. I have inherited this issue, a major concern for me and the entire state, as well as Nigeria, in general.
PT: Thank you so much. Now, I do understand that in your state, as you rightly said this issue has been going on for quite some time. The perpetrators - are you talking about Fulani militants? Who are the individuals? Can you describe who they are?
Lawal: Well, these people are Fulani herdsmen. They are the ones that are rising even though there are some elements of Hausa but they're not as many as the Fulani. So, it's a crisis between herdsmen, their house, or community in Zamfara State.
PT: And how would you characterise the root cause of this issue? And if you know the root cause, why are you not able to solve the root cause?
Lawal: That is a $1 million question. Like I always said, if you speak about Boko Haram I can understand the fighting for a religious cause. If you speak about the Niger Delta, they are fighting for economic development. But in my own case, I still try to understand the root cause of this herdsmen crisis. Because if you look at the way this whole crisis is going on, they are killing everybody, including their fellow herdsmen that are rich, and sometimes they go on sporadic attacks and attack the women in villages - villagers that are also trying to survive. Sometimes they bomb the whole village or location. They burn their [victims'] food, they kill people. So I begin to wonder, what exactly are the issues that if only we understand the issue, then we'll begin to address the issue. For example, for me as a governor, I have responsibility over six million people in my state, and I'm ready to provide whatever assistance for development in terms of primary health care, in terms of schools, providing water, and so on and so forth, which I'm ready to do. And I'm trying to understand, really, why destruction? Why is it going on? So, it is something that we are trying to find out what really are the causes of this security, and what is ongoing, and I believe when we know the root causes, we'll be able to begin to address the issue. And what makes it difficult is because some of these guys are in the bush and they're scattered around the state. So basically, we have about 10 local governments that are affected by these banditry activities.
PT: I can imagine that it is a nightmare. I have looked at some of the data on the security situation, and the data that I was looking at was not from last year. I looked at data from 2022. And what I found in this data - this is according to data which is published by the Global Terrorism Trends and Analysis Center (GTTAC), which has partnered with a research centre at George Mason University called the Terrorism Transnational Crime And Corruption Center (TraCCC). What GTTAC Record of Incidents Database (GRID), collected and found in terms of Zamfara State in 2022 is that Nigeria experienced more than 632 incidents in 2022 alone. And out of these incidents, there were militants who were perpetrating the incidents. In terms of how and what they were doing, it talks of arms and a lot of shootings. A high number of kidnappings, like you quite rightly said. From your perspective, do you consider this issue as strictly crimes, or as banditry with extremism aims and motives? Or is it tied to any illegal mining? Could you talk about the role illegal mining and the role China plays?
Lawal: As I said earlier, at this conference that we attended, what I'm trying to understand is what is the root cause of these issues? What exactly are they looking for? The interesting thing for you to know is these locales ... are indigenous to the state. So what exactly is the reason? Honestly. That's what we're trying to find out.
PT: Is the state leaning more towards agriculture or mining?
Lawal: Let me say this, Zamfara State is an agrarian economy. We have vast land, very, very fertile land for agricultural development. Zamfara happens to be one of the states that is feeding the South-west, in terms of food. In terms of cash crops, as well as food crops, for example, beans - most of the beans that are being consumed in the South-west are from some foreign states. Look at cotton. It is a major producer of cotton. So, it is purely an agrarian economy. Now one other thing that we're blessed with in Nigeria is that Zamfara has the highest mineral deposits. There is abundance. So, it's a very small state, but very rich. We're blessed if we're able to get our act together. Believe me, it is going to be one of the greatest states in Nigeria.
PT: You've been meeting with former Ambassador Carson and staff here in Washington and having many engagements in your quest to seek some solutions to these issues. Now, since you mentioned the issue of your state, having such a wealth of resources, let me ask you one or two more questions and then I'll let you go because I know that you have got a busy schedule. You're hoping to get assistance and support, obviously from the United States. But, you know, in terms of resources, obviously China plays a role right, in your region? So, can you weave that in for me to help us understand what type of assistance or how was your engagement and interactions with people in Washington? How's that been going? Fill us in on outcomes. What have you managed to achieve in your time in Washington? And then let us know what the role of China in Zamfara is. And where do you see sustainable results for when you go back home, for the future of Zamfara? When you are back home, what can you say you managed to achieve in Washington?
Lawal: Let me say this, this trip is an important trip in the sense that we can, and we learned, we picked up ideas that are a combination of ideas from experts that had one challenge or the other. Issues were discussed in terms of what would be the best way to handle this kind of complex situation. And you know, some of these things had happened. In different parts of this group of experts that we discussed with. The good thing is, like I said, let's take 10 governors that attended this conference from the north. There are seven governors from the North-west as well as three governors from the North-central which include Plateau and Benue, as well as major states where also by extension, the states are also facing similar problems or spillover from Zamfara into some of these neighbourhoods. So, the good thing is they heard about the issues. And we're looking for solutions which we can take. It has implications, and therefore, it's going to be a combination of factors. What do we do with these people? All these issues were discussed extensively. Major, medium-term, as well as long-term solutions to this banditry issue. They have to discuss. So, it was a very good meeting because it's a combination of ideas.
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PT: I appreciate the fact that you say it's a whole holistic conversation that is happening not only connected on the humanitarian side for the people living on the ground in Zamfara. These are people who are living in fear. All they want is to wake up and take care of their families each and every single day. And yet, they might want to flee and not be able to return to their homes. How can they feel safe to return to their homes? If we know where the bandits are, if we know the people perpetrating these crimes, why can you not work to solve the problem? If where they are is known, why can somebody not go after the people?
Lawal: Three weeks ago, I met with Mr President [Bola Tinubu]. I had explained this situation because maybe he was not properly briefed. What I asked him was, look, this small group of people, how can they be more powerful than the government? I don't think it's right. We need to do whatever it takes to take this fight to wherever. These people who we know where they are; why is it difficult for the security forces to take this fight to the end? This is the $1 million question. As you know, I'm just a state governor by name. I'm the chief security officer of the state. However, I don't have control of the military. I don't have control of the police as well as civil defence (NCDSC). That is why I had to take these to Mr President, for him to come up with a system and do whatever it takes to make sure these guys are flushed out if we can do this thing holistically.
