Mali's Habib Koité has led a storied career since he burst onto the scene with his award-winning debut album Musa Ko in 1995. Now, eight albums later, he's returning to our shores with a quartet in a unique show to celebrate Mande Sila: the way of the Mandingo empire, symbolizing languages, cultures and music of West Africa. Koité, on guitar, will be joined by kora player Lamine Cissokho, balafon master Aly Keita and percussionist Mama Koné. Tour dates here. The tour includes a Tuesday, November 19 show at SOB's in New York.
When Koité last visited New York with his band Bamada in 2022, Afropop's Banning Eyre and Sean Barlow sat down backstage at the City Winery to catch up. They started by calling Habib's friend and collaborator Bonnie Raitt on the phone. They all enjoyed a lively conversation recalling their travels with Afropop in Mali in 2000. Some of what followed focused on how the Covid pandemic affected artists in Mali. But they also got around to discussing the new generation of musicians in Mali. Here's an edited version of the interview, with Banning's photos from Habib's City Winery show presented by the World Music Institute.
Banning Eyre: Bonnie is one of my favorite artists in the world, and favorite human beings too.
Habib Koité: Me too.
Sean Barlow: So, Habib, welcome back to Afropop. And to America. How's it feeling? How's the tour going?
The tour is going very well, and we are very happy to be coming back. I'm especially happy to come to the U.S., because I love touring here. Before Covid, I had a chance to make a short tour in Europe. But when Covid came, everything stopped, and I didn't have any opportunity to come to the U.S.. Actually, it's been five years, and I miss the my people here. I think they miss me too.
Banning: They sure do. So, how did you come through the Covid period?
There were no tours for Malian artists in Europe. And in Mali, we had a lot of health restrictions. Concert halls were no longer allowed to open. Concerts were prohibited. Even gatherings of more than 50 people were prohibited. So in Europe and in Mali, it was prohibited to make music.
For more than a year.
Yes, for more than a year. Musicians suffered a lot. But then, at one point, there were football matches that they let happen. Football, okay. Music, no. That's it. And for football, there are 10,000 people in a stadium. But musicans can't do a concert for 50 people. Our big concerts, it's maybe 500 people or 800. So there was a protest.
And then food was given to some people. But I think there are too many artists for a bag of rice and not everyone got it. Money was also promised, but it was not a large sum. People were happy that we were promised. It calmed people down. But we never got the money. It was about 10 Euros, 5,000 francs, but we never received it.
They promised but did not give.
No, they did not give, and there were a lot of protests. But I'm not in the musicians' union. I tell myself, it's always like that. With us, there are people who eat, there are people who embezzle, there are promises. I didn't think about it too much. I kept quiet. So, at one point I had project that came from South Africa via Germany and Michel [DeBock, Habib's manager at Contra-Jour] to do a duet in my living room, with guitar and bass, so we did that. There was also a lockdown in Europe and South Africa. Those people were not allowed to go out either. They could watch on TV. So we did that and it brought in something.
And then at one point, Contra-Jour took care of us with financial help. That was very exceptional, but it was done, so it must be said. And it was a fairly substantial sum, which is very different from the sum promised by the cultural section of the ministries. Very different. My group and I were very happy, very pleased. But hey, money always ends.
Some musicians I've spoken with said the lockdown gave them time to create new music.
If you can do that alone, it's good. For me, 50% of the music I create, I do it alone. After that, I bring the musicians together to rehearse. I always rehearse. But for rehearsal, you have to bring the musicians from all over the city of Bamako. It's big. So I need to pay transportation or gasoline for the car or the motorcycle, if I'm going to have someone come to rehearse. I really had to think about that. Well, maybe you have to behave like a leader, but you can only behave like a leader up to a certain limit. It was a time when we took a little rest.
Have you written new songs?
No, not so much. It's not easy for me.
I remember that about you. Of course, we were locked down too. It wasn't so bad at first. I played a lot of guitar. But it was rough in New York. A lot of people died.
Really?
Oh yes. Hospitals were full. It was bad. Anyway, it's better now, and it's good to be getting back to our crazy lives.
The normal life!
Zoom was a gift for us because suddenly we can talk with people in Nairobi, Lagos, everywhere. That was one good thing.
Me to. We did a Zoom with the whole team of Jackson Brown's music project in Haiti, Artists for Peace and Justice. We had finished the recording and it was time to start promoting, and everything was shut down, but we still did some conferences on Zoom. But I was in Bamako with bad internet! Anyway, it was interesting.
I love the song you did for that Jackson Browne project with Jenny Lewis, "Under the Supermoon." You sing at one point in Bambara. What are you singing?
It's a traditional Khasonke song, an initiation song for young people, young adults coming to adult life. I put that in, to add some color.
That was a great project. You also worked with Raul Rodriguez who helped us with an interesting program on the Black roots of flamenco music. And you worked with Paul Beaubrun.
Yes. It was a good team, and a very good mission.
So there's been a lot of change in Mali, Covid, political changes. What's it like now?
Well, everyone is vaccinated. So it's washing your hands and covering your nose and all that stuff. We have to keep doing it, even if we say that Covid is over. That's for the education of the children who are growing up. They need to know that there are a lot of germs that pass through the hands. So it's with Covid that we learned that, because, after all, we shake hands a lot. So now, activities have started up again. And the big scene in Bamako is Bama Art. It's the biggest event in Bamako that takes place on the banks of the river with 2,000, 3,000 people.
Oh yeah, is that new?
It's not new. It's just that Covid came to stop it, but it's back now. Bama Art is huge. It's once a month, on the weekend between Saturday and Sunday, once a month.
And bands play?
Yes, a lot of groups play. Because there are a lot of young groups making music who have a lot of local success. They are very strong, and there are a lot of them, about the age of Sidiki Diabaté, not at the same level, but that age.
Around 30.
Yes. There are a lot who are having great success. It makes me feel old. I realize that, because there are new ideas, new ways of singing, new words, new generations. They use words that I do not dare to pronounce in my songs. Things that are sensitive. The youth. Ooo là là!
Are these rappers mainly? Singers too?
There are singers and rappers. Both of them, and they are very successful. The singers are a little more successful than the rappers. But we have one or two rappers who are very successful.
Like Master Soumy? We met him in 2016.
No. These are younger than Soumy. There's Iba One. He was very close with Sidiki. They started together, but then they split up. Now we are told that they are quarreling, but it's all a star story. I look at these things and I say, "Well, things have changed." And then, afterwards, they will get along again, they will be together. Everyone will talk about it on the internet. "Ah now, Iba One has become a friend again." There are lots of things said on the internet among these young generations. There are quarrels, there are good feelings, bad feelings. And so, this is a change.
There really are new talents, but there's a big difference when I compare them to me when I was their age. I played guitar and I sang. They go into the studio and they make their music. They love the studio because there are so many digital possibilities. All the little studios, they have their software. It's their generation, it's their moment. All these things came in their time and they understand it. They grew up with it.
And they're doing this in the period when these big artists from Nigeria. Wizkid, Burna Boy. The world has changed.
The world has changed. But when I look at them and think about when I was their age, we didn't do playback. If I did playback, people wouldn't come. I have to play. But now, they don't play. You can do playback and there are a thousand people in the stadium. That's a big difference.
Sign up for free AllAfrica Newsletters
Get the latest in African news delivered straight to your inbox
Anything new you're excited about?
Sidiki Diabaté. There are many almost like him, but he's on top. He has lots of local hits. But I love this song "Diya." Diya, it can mean "my love," or it can be things I love. I love the way of my life. It could be a girl, the love between two persons. Diya is to be happy, to be, to be well, to be good. This is diya.
Does it bother you that this new generation comes with less guitarists, less horn players, less drummers, less traditional instrumentalists? Do you think that's a problem?
I'm tolerant. I tell myself, "Well, it's their time." Because with what they do, they can fill a stadium, and if they have success, they have money. So, I say, "Okay for them, everything is fine." But me, as you say, as I've become an old man now, I have to look at them and say, OK, it does bother me to see musicians making digital music, performing with just a deejay. They don't play instruments and that bothers me. But I can't do anything. I can just tell them "We need instrumentalists. We need instrumentalists!"
But there are still young people who play instruments.
In Mali? Oh yes, there are instrumentalists. But in Mali, there are instrumentalists and there are singers. It's rare that a person who plays an instrument also sings.
Sidiki plays and sings.
Yes. So there are a few. But it's rare. Who else? Mbouillé Koité, my nephew who is about the same age as Sidiki. He plays and sings and he has a lot of success. But after that, it's finished. They have big big hits, but they don't play instruments.
Sean Barlow: Habib, do you use social media? Tik Tok, Instagram and all that? Do those platforms help you?
I'm not from the Tik Tok and Instagram generation, and my producers are also not from the internet generation, but we came into it. I have come into it. I film here and I put things on Tik Tok or put a clip on my WhatsApp profile. I started doing that not long ago, maybe a year ago. I get a lot of response. But the younger generation, they fight for it. They make lots of buzz words, all these new words we hear now. They are very smart about it.
Looks like it's time for you to go onstage, but it's great to speak with you again.
Good to see you too.
