Washington, DC — Sporadic fighting between rebels and government soldiers continues in Burundi despite an agreement reached in Arusha, Tanzania, in August 2000 and most recently, a December 2002 ceasefire between the government and rebel Forces of the Defence of Democracy (FDD).
The Arusha agreement between the Tutsi-dominated government and the Hutu rebels defined a transitional period divided into two equal 18-month phases; the current Tutsi President, Pierre Buyoya was given charge of the country for the first phase and has lately confirmed, after some contradictory signals, that he will step down May 1 to allow a Hutu Vice President, Domitien Ndayizeye, to rule for the second phase.
Although nineteen political parties signed the Arusha agreement some still remain uncommitted to the peace process and Burundi's continuing civil conflict has taken the lives of an estimated 200,000 Burundians. There is hope that after the Government last week agreed with the African Union on the deployment of a peacekeeping force, the violence will at last come to an end through the establishment of assembly zones for combatants, and the demobilisation, disarmament and repatriation of armed combatants of the various parties
This conflict, says Frederik Ngoga Gateretse, President of the Burundi Youth Council and a Harvard University student, is more complex than simple tribal conflict. Burundi has a political class that manipulates ethnicity for political gain and ordinary citizens are fed up with it. Furthermore, says the youth leader, many in Burundi's political leadership should be arraigned before a war crimes tribunal. Gateretse spoke with allAfrica.com's Charles Cobb Jr. Excerpts:
What is the Burundi Youth Council?
The Burundi Youth Council is an organization that was created by young Burundians who are sick and tired of the current situation in our home country. We are an organization of young Hutu and Tutsi which is very rare in Burundi.
The group was created in Burundi?
We were created abroad. It's always much easier to create abroad and then bring it back to Burundi. Because there was such a thirst for such an organization we were able to have support on the ground [in Burundi] and we are operating more on the ground there than we are abroad. We monitor what the government of Burundi - what our political class is doing. We try as much as we can to influence the situation in a positive way because the youth of Burundi has been manipulated by politicians and they have committed crimes on both sides.
Could you concretely illustrate what you mean by trying to influence the situation in a positive way?
You see, in Burundi, our political class has never been able to go beyond ethnic lines. For example, when you have killings of Hutu citizens by, let's say, the armed forces of the Burundi government very rarely will you hear condemnation from the Tutsi politicians. You will hear Hutu politicians screaming but you will never hear any Tutsi politicians screaming. When you hear of people being killed by the Hutu rebels you will hear the Tutsis screaming but you will never hear the Hutu politicians screaming. So there is something wrong going on here; these are Burundian people who are dying, everybody should be condemning these killings. But it looks like the whole political class is divided into ethnic groups. So I think that we [Burundi Youth Council] have more of a notion of being a nation than our political class does. So we try as much as possible to condemn and to voice our anger at these kinds of situations.
How long has the Council been in existence?
We're pretty young. We formed in 2000. But I believe we have a bright future because we are fighting for the right thing.
Should you be seen as up-and-coming politicians, the political leaders of the next generation?
I wouldn't approach it that way. I would say that I personally would encourage any young Burundian to get into politics. I think there is nothing wrong with it. I think that it's pretty noble to go into politics. With the current political class [in power] I think the entrance of young people would even be welcomed. So while I think it is an individual choice it is something that I would definitely encourage.
Are you thinking about doing this yourself?
Myself? I don't know; I think time will tell. I don't think I can answer that question as of now. I am in school right now.
What are you majoring in?
Public policy.
So I should keep my eye on you, I think!
I do definitely want to prepare myself just in case I make that decision - to at least be ready. I think it is a decision that you make according to the time. But once again, I think that it is something that I will definitely explore.
There are some substantive issues related to Burundi that I hope you will comment on. When it comes to central Africa, when we're not looking at Congo we look at Rwanda. Even here at allAfrica we generate a lot of copy about Rwanda and very little about Burundi although in many ways you can make the argument that, at least from Washington, DC, Burundi seems to be more volatile than Rwanda right now. It's only in the last few days that the African Union have finally gotten its full complement into Burundi - and that's less than 50 people.
Burundian people are still extremely frustrated by the way the international community has, in a sense, lost all interest in what's going on in our home country and how they are trying to copy and paste some solutions taken from other countries. One of the reasons the Burundian question is not brought up, most of the time, is that the crimes committed in Burundi, even the crimes that are genocidal in nature have not been recognized by the United Nations as such.
There was a 1996 United Nations report [United Nations,'Report to the Security Council on the Situation in Burundi'] that said that the crimes committed in 1993 were crimes of genocide. But there was a lot of controversy around that report because the people who were doing the investigation could not agree on certain details. So that report disappeared. We never heard from it and it's in the jaws of the United Nations somewhere.
Another reason is that the international community did not want to put its feet into a so-called "Rwandan situation". They've been trying to experiment with a lot of things on Burundi - an African solution for an African problem. That's how they involved the South Africans. But I think that it is really a pity - Burundi suffers from the lack of attention. A lot of bad things are going on but nobody really monitors it.
How much of this kind of problem has to do simply with the inexperience and unfamiliarity of the mediators?
The Burundi people are very grateful to the South Africans for their efforts but I have to say that there have been a lot of mistakes made that could have been avoided. Still I wouldn't just blame them. What's wrong in Burundi is due to a political class that is not responsible, with no vision whatsoever. For example, in my opinion the problem in Burundi has never been an ethnic problem; it's a political problem with ethnic dimensions. We have an established system in Burundi. It's a coalition of criminals and opportunists. These criminals maintain the system to protect themselves.
Why do you call them criminals?
I don't say that everybody who is in the system is a criminal, but it's run by criminals. These are individuals who are responsible for the deaths of Burundian people. They are both Tutsi and Hutu. It's a system that has to go if you really want peace in Burundi.
My understanding of dealing with such a system is by either social uprising, which in my opinion would be crushed right away, or having an international tribunal in Burundi like they are doing in Sierra Leone; a war crimes tribunal. That's what we've been lobbying for because in Burundi, people have never seen the fruits of peace.
This tribunal, once it is set up, will hold those responsible Burundians accountable for all the crimes and none of them could hold any office. The situation that we are in right now is that people who are responsible for war crimes are running Burundi. People in Burundi immediately rejected the [power sharing] agreement [of August 2000].
I can't help but note that if we had a Rwandan official here, say a Paul Kagame, they might express their frustration with the war crimes tribunal established for their country, which has taken years and millions of dollars to prosecute less than a dozen people. In both their private and public expressions many people are frustrated with the war crimes tribunal.Given the Rwandan experience, why do you want a war crimes tribunal? Perhaps there is something else that might be better?
A tribunal is set up to achieve certain results, but just the fact that it has been set up can yield some results. I don't think that people who know they are being investigated will go into politics. There will at least be a halt on certain behavior. The major problem in Burundi today is impunity. Unless we address the problem of impunity we will never have peace in Burundi.
Give me a definition of what you mean by impunity?
We have Hutu who have been killed. We have had Tutsis who have been killed. And no one has been held accountable for it; people die every day in Burundi and no-one is held accountable for it. And these are political crimes. There is a culture of genocide in Burundi both on the Hutu side and the Tutsi side. No one has been judged. We want an end to impunity.
And you don't think this government is prepared to do that?
No, not at all because they've been trying to come up with some sort of formula for what they call 'provisional amnesty' for political criminals. This will not work! Burundian people will not accept it. How can you bring about reconciliation without some form of justice? They are going about it the wrong way and it's going to create more frustrations.
These should have been the questions addressed in the Arusha peace agreement. Nowhere in the world have you seen a place where people signed an agreement with no ceasefire. It is only in Burundi that you can do that! Nowhere in the world have you seen a place where they divide the transitional period into two. It is only in Burundi that you can do that! And today, the result is disastrous! Continuing fighting. Continuing negotiations here and there. The economic situation is disastrous. Burundi's GDP has fallen by 20 percent. Primary school enrollment has fallen by 28 percent.
Over what period?
Over a short period - two years. Burundi is ranked third from the bottom by the UN human index measure. Now we have a food crisis going on. The people of Burundi need serious help. And there is not much interest in providing assistance. The international community pledged assistance to the transitional government of Burundi but they conditioned that money to a ceasefire and the ceasefire has not come. In the meantime our people are dying. Like I said, the problem is the system that is in place. Burundians are tired. I think Burundians understand that they need to live together and want peace.
President Buyoya has just announced that he is stepping down on May first, trading places with the Vice President Domicien Ndayizeye. This is surely encouraging to Burundians; a Tutsi who seized power in a coup in 1996 turning the position of head of state over to a Hutu, as agreed to in Arusha. Wouldn't you agree?
Yes, he's made a good decision stepping down. But it doesn't change a lot for the majority of Burundian citizens. We are still governed by politicians who, whether they are Tutsi or Hutu, have one way or another been involved in the political unrest that has rocked Burundi for the last ten years.
This is something between the politicians [but] a major problem with the peace process is that its been business between the politicians. The Burundian 'man in the street' still doesn't trust it. So, Buyoya stepping down is a big step for foreigners who look at Burundi and think that what's at issue is a question between Hutus and Tutsis. But, as I said, our problem is a problem with the system. Both Hutu and Tutsi politicians make up the system. And, the largest rebel group, the main faction of the Forces for the Defense of Democracy, or FDD, continues fighting.
And what about all the Burundian opposition groups? Burundi has an amazing number of opposition groups. I don't know whether to characterize them all as 'rebels' or just lump them as 'opposition' but there seem to be a lot of them. Has everybody ever gotten them around a conference table?
Getting a tribunal in Burundi is the only thing we all agree on. But as far as the rebels are concerned, that's another issue. What we are saying to people in the U.S. administration here, and to countries that are members of the UN Security Council, is that we want this tribunal but it has to be dynamic. There have to be certain conditions before this tribunal can be set up. We have to have a global ceasefire, not some ceasefire here and there, here and there, with some small groups but a global cease fire. Then once we have a global ceasefire there has to be reform of the army. Then once there is reform of the army with, of course, some seriousobservers, then set up the tribunal.
What's been the response as you put this to the State Department or members of Congress or whoever you are talking to?
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We are lobbying officials to help put a tribunal in place. They think it's a good idea but they always bring up the ICTR (International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda). They explain to me that it's been extremely expensive and without any results.
I think it figures out to something like US$8m per indictment at the ICTR.
Exactly. I think also that they do not want to establish that tribunal [in Burundi] before there is some sort of political stability. But I say to them there will be no political stability without a tribunal. There has to be a tribunal and them you can get political stability.
I think the problem with the people in the State Department is that they are trying to find a "one size fits all" solution for many issues on the continent - to copy and paste. But each country has its particularities. Burundi has its problems. Rwanda has its problems.
The United States is more concerned about certain places than it is with others. It has, as has certainly manifested over the last year, a very active interest in Rwanda. It has a historical relationship with Congo - the DRC, although it is not clear what that means when you get to the Eastern Congo. And there is a very active economic interest in Uganda with president Yoweri Museveni literally being held up as a golden boy by almost everyone in the U.S. government. As a young political analyst, are you looking for a greater U.S. hand in the region? Would you see a greater U.S. role in the region as something positive?
In general, the way the Western countries intervene in Africa is through aid and some business. I think we have to develop our own strength and not rely on the Americans. But we would welcome more involvement with Burundi. If it brings in more money, why not? I wish we could have a GDP increase of 13 percent every year like the Rwandans.
How concerned are you about what might be termed the 'spillover effects' of continuing conflicts in other parts of Central Africa? There is continuing conflict in Congo which is a neighbor. Rwanda has achieved a certain kind of stability but there are real tensions with Uganda, threats of war even. And then a little further away there was a coup d'etat in the Central African Republic and of course fighting inside Burundi itself.
It's very discouraging. We have a lot of peace agreements that are signed here and there. We have the Pretoria Agreement with Rwanda. We have Lusaka. We have the Burundi Arusha peace process. Still there is no sign of any hope and I wonder if we are addressing the correct issues? Are we finding the right medicine for the right problem? It is very easy to put things down on paper and this is what they do. They agree on some papers but they never really get to the core of the problems, which is power-sharing in a way that people can relate to. I think this is going to be a huge test for the African Union (AU).
As far as the spillover in Burundi - there is a culture of genocide in the Great Lakes region. We have our internal political problems in Burundi but we also have external factors that shape the situation. We need to find our own solutions in Burundi, and in Rwanda and Uganda as well. But there needs also to be a regional solution to the crisis in the Great Lakes. If we do not have a regional solution for the security concerns of all the Great Lakes countries we will still have all these little wars.
