Washington, DC — At a breakfast fundraiser in Washington DC for the Liberian Education Trust, President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf discussed the nation's prospects for development and peace with veteran journalist Judy Woodruff and a supportive audience. AllAfrica transcribed the session.
Judy Woodruff: I am delighted to be here this morning. I'd like to welcome President Johnson Sirleaf. I would like to start out with a reminder of Ginger Rogers famous line; someone asked her, "Are you really as good a dancer as Fred Astaire?" and she said, "Absolutely, and I have to do it backwards and in my heels!"
I would say, in the case of President Johnson Sirleaf, that you have to do it backwards and in your heels in a country with enormous challenges. We are particularly delighted that you are here. Thanks very much.
I don't want to give very much of an introduction. You have it in the program. Suffice to say, President Johnson Sirleaf has been involved in the life of her native country, Liberia, for several decades. She started out at the ministry of finance. She was educated in the United States and Liberia. She ran for president in 1996, and last year, she ran again. She was elected and took office nine months ago yesterday, on January 16 of this year.
President Johnson Sirleaf, we don't want to focus on the challenges you face, principally, but I do want to ask you, to begin, to size up for the audience the situation that your country is in at the moment. The infrastructure was destroyed after fourteen years of civil war. We know the effect on the economy, not to mention education. Give us your description of the challenges your country faces right now.
President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf: First of all, let me say how glad I am to be here. I see so many familiar faces around the room who I have worked with and interacted with over the years. Let me apologize for being late. I just came in this morning. Because of bad weather, we got delayed by a whole day. It is good to be here.
One has to see Liberia contextually…Since a coup d'etat in 1980, we have been in economic freefall. We had most of our infrastructure destroyed, because the coup d'etat and the military dictatorship that took over led to … a civil war that really destroyed everything. The challenges are many; they have all been reported and talked about. But I think the greatest challenge of all is the challenge of youth.
We have a young population; some 40% of our population is less than 20 years old. Many of them were conscripted into warfare, have never been to school – and at this stage, how do we respond to that? We are trying to meet the challenges of improving infrastructure. We are trying to meet the challenges of reconciliation from wars and of ethnic tensions and rivalries that were associated with that, but most of all, getting our young children back to school and giving them hope and confidence in the future.
For many years they have reached a place where they lost hope, where they could see nothing but death and destruction, where they have no confidence in government, no confidence in leadership, no understanding that they had a place and a stake in their society, and they could grow up and become a major participant in the process of reconstruction. I think our responsibility is to restore that hope; to bring back the smiles on the faces of the children again; to make them know that we are moving ahead to respond to their needs.
It is a difficult task right now. Timing is of the essence.
It has been nine months since the election. It takes a while to get all of the procedures and policies and programs in place to respond to their needs. At this stage, our biggest challenge is getting things on the ground that affects their lives. That means getting the schools, getting the clinics, getting many of them the training and skills that enable them to get a job.
We are working with our [aid] partners; we are trying to stress the need for urgency. I think we have a lot of progress, but the progress compared to the challenges is still much too small. The challenge for the next six months, when we have the weather conditions to enable us, is to put these young people back to work, to get them to school, to fix our infrastructure.
It is going to be about how quickly we can do it; how effectively our partnership can be made to work, given constraints on our resources; how we can create the environment that will attract private sector involvement that would create the jobs. So in the next few months, as I go forward to my first anniversary on January 16, what we do will make a big difference in consolidating the peace and reinforcing the hope and promise of our young people, who are the future.
Woodruff: The statistics, President Johnson Sirleaf, are: population, 3.2 million; unemployment, 85%; illiteracy, 80%; only 28 doctors in the country, I read; three pediatricians; 35% of the population is undernourished; 3.7 billion dollars in debt. Why the focus on education and particularly on educating girls?
Sirleaf: That is where the future lies. As a matter of fact, that is probably our most important neglect. Women need education; they need skills. Our young people can apply themselves; they can become a part of the rebuilding process.
Why girls? Because girls, in Liberia, in Africa, are the ones that have been left out. If there was an opportunity and not enough resources for both boys and girls, the young boys would get the opportunity, because they represented the person who could take care of the family, the one who had the opportunity for jobs, the one who would excel in leadership positions. Young girls got married too early.
The emphasis on girls is to correct many years of neglect. We are already beginning to feel some effects, as the enrollment of girls is beginning to increase.
Woodruff: Tell us what the numbers are in terms of boys and girls who are enrolled in school right now up to age of 18.
Sirleaf: The enrollment rate for boys is somewhere around 40%. We don't have enough of them in school, because we don't have the schools. [The percentage for] girls is about half of that. The total numbers, I don't have that on me.
Woodruff: But you were saying that it was less …
Sirleaf: Oh yes, very much so. The girls' enrollment rate is about one-half of boys'. The program we launched recently – the Liberian Education Trust – Debbie is here, she is running that from here. [They] have been trying to get statistics, and I have to tell you, that is one of our problems, the lack of statistics over the years. There were no attempts to gather statistics. We are trying to get our national accounts and all that back in place again. Debbie, do you happen to have those numbers.
Deborah Harding, president of Liberian Education Trust: I think it is 50% of the school-age kids are in school, of which 24% are girls.
Woodruff: Is the greater challenge the resources, or is it changing the attitudes of people about the need for educating girls, or both?
Sirleaf: I would put the weight on the latter. Yes, money is a constraint, but for families to survive, their young children, particularly girls, have been a source of income, because they go out on the streets.
There is nothing more heartbreaking than to walk the streets and see a five-year-old or six-year-old with a huge basket on their heads, selling food or little packages of water and things like that. They should be in school.
The mothers themselves are in the market, sometimes with their children with them, in difficult conditions. This is the only way for them to get enough money to feed the family that night, or for that matter, to pay tuition for one or two of the boy children. If it is a large family, not all of them can go to school, because they do not the resources. In some cases, the facilities for schooling are not available in their communities. So, I think it is changing the mindset of the family and pressing upon them the need to get all children in school, but also to place emphasis on the girl child, which is the one that gets neglected in the circumstances where the resources are not available.
Woodruff: How much time do you think … what is the window you think you have to turn things around – maybe you think you have turned things around – so you don't run the risk of the sort of instability that led to the country being enveloped in civil war?
Sirleaf: Eighteen months from now. We did our first 150 days and called them deliverables and tried to set measurable targets of the things we would achieve in the areas of peace and security, infrastructure, governance and the rule of law. We achieved a lot of that. Largely it was a planning effort, setting the goals, getting the policies right.
Now we are working on an interim poverty reduction strategy and the time frame for that is July 06 to June 08. That is the period that we have got to deliver. Between now and then, we have got to deliver progressively in many areas so people begin to see results on the ground.
When I talk about the urgency – within that time frame, transformation has got to be visible. Transformation has got to be felt. We have got to touch the lives of these young girls and boys. We have got to make a difference in their families. Because if we do not – the record on that is clear in post-conflict countries – if you don't make a difference in a relatively short amount of time, one to two years, chances are that the country slips back into chaos and back into conflict.
For Liberia, this is the one best opportunity that we have to fix it, to make sure that we get lasting peace and that we progressively deliver on the agenda. Our country is not poor, let me be quick to point that out. Our country is rich is natural resources, rich in human resources, and we see some of them around the room, many of whom are here pursuing good things, like an education or a job. Remittances are an important part of our resources right now, but those resources have not been properly managed. That is our challenge. In two years, by the time I reach my second anniversary in January 2008, things will be different. The roads will be fixed, the lights will be fixed, the kids will be in school. If I don't, I am in trouble (laughter, applause).
Woodruff: You just said it, you are dealing with electricity, a lack of running water, sewage issues. Is there another country, you mentioned post-conflict, that you look to as an example, who did it right, who did it well, who you can point to and say, "They did. They are who we should copy"?
Sirleaf: There are two countries whose experiences are similar to us: Mozambique and Rwanda. Those two countries have successfully put in place the policies, the priorities, the programs that have turned things around, that have made for a successful transition. The circumstances may not be totally equal to ours, but they have experiences, practices that we can use, and we are trying to study them. We are trying to do some networking between their agencies and ours to determine if we can use they have learned.
Woodruff: Why are you so passionate about this? You have an interesting life, a successful life, why devote this time to such a difficult challenge?
Sirleaf: Because we can be a model. Because we have the potential to show that you can turn tragedy and chaos into success. We have the right team and proper resources to do it. I have been involved in all of this for awhile. I have worked for it; I have earned the stripes, and at this stage, this one opportunity has come, and I do think we can make Liberia a successful story.
It is a small country – 3.2 million people, a country the size of Ohio, but we have the resources. If we can just get it right: the partnership right, the priorities right, the causes right, it is possible to make a total transformation. It is possible for a country that has had so much in its history, both the good times and the bad, but more important, almost total destruction, to turn it around. That in itself would be a strong message to countries, particularly in Africa, to show that, with good leadership, things can be different.
Woodruff: You are in United States appealing for support, not only from the government sector, but we did have an appropriation from the Congress in the summertime. I don't know if that money has reached you yet; I gather that it has not.
Sirleaf: It is a long road from commitment to cash!
Woodruff: My friend Tami Hultman from AllAfrica, who is over there taking your picture, was telling me it was 50 million dollars, is that right?
Sirleaf: The supplemental was 50 million dollars.
Woodruff: Why should Americans care? Why should Americans reach out to help this tiny country on the continent of Africa, which, as you said, is the size of Ohio, 3.2 million people? Why should it make a difference to Americans?
Sirleaf: It is the one country in Africa where America has a long-standing relationship. There have been periods of support and periods of withdrawal, but always the ties have been there - not only government-to-government, but people-to-people. Many of my compatriots have studied in this country, lived in this country, have worked in this country, have some of the same cultural traits as this country. So that friendship and that bond is there.
We say today, however, that Liberia is responsible for its own development. Going forward, we want a partnership that has mutuality, respect, and mutual interest. That said, if you ever ask anyone in Africa, "Where is the American connection in Africa?", without a doubt, the answer would be Liberia.
Already America has invested quite a bit in Liberia's success; it has been part of its downfall and part of its rise. Now is a time we can show, in partnership, that we can make it successful. We think the partnership is growing. We have some very strong support from the Bush administration, the first lady has been exceptional, supporting me and some of the things we do, so this opportunity is a chance to show that partnership can work.
Audience Question: Madame President, you cite Rwanda as an example of success, and, as you know, Rwanda has the highest percentage of women parliamentarians in the world, at almost half of its lower house. Could you reflect on that for a bit and discuss the particular roles that women play in post-conflict reconstruction?
Sirleaf: Women during conflict suffer. Women have to take care of their children while the men go off to war. Women have to fetch food and make sure the family is fed. Women are vulnerable; they get used as sex slaves. And so, at the end of the day, women are always up front, promoting peace, because it is their families and their children that get infected by warfare.
The women then get left out of the processes, because the men come back, and it is now their time to take over. That is changing in some places – and certainly in Rwanda. Many women became heads of households because of the genocide. I think increasingly, not only in post-conflict countries but all over, the potential of woman and the sensitivity that women bring to the task of leadership has been recognized, and they are taking a much bigger role.
Audience Question: You mentioned at the UN Assembly that you wished there would be a world body to help empower women and girls. How would you lay that out? Would it just be country-specific, or would it be an all-encompassing body?
Sirleaf: I would like to see an independent body that is fully authorized with adequate resources. There is a body right now, Unifem, that is responsible for promoting women's matters, but it is just used as a sub-agency, and its resources are so limited that it cannot make much of a difference. They can only do marginal things. We are talking about a major agency that has the scope, mandate, and the resources to respond to the needs of women, as Unicef responds to the needs of children.
Audience Question: I am an educator here at a university in town, and I work with young women to get them to consider careers in politics. There continues to be a reservation among young women I work with to get involved in electoral politics. I was wondering if you could comment, from your experience.
Sirleaf: I think, in every country, one needs to encourage women to be a part of the political processes right where it starts – for example, claiming leadership roles in political parties. One of the major constraints that women face in promoting themselves in politics is resources. Increasingly, all over the world, money is a big factor in electoral processes, unless we can get the means not only to encourage women but also the instruments to raise money for women.
It is possible to have more workshops, to focus on leadership, more ways to promote women's groups and women's institutions. Then you get the critical mass. We always have to bear in mind that women in politics and women in professions carry twice the burden as men. Most of the time they carry the burden of the household, as well as of pursuing their political or professional careers. That makes women exceptional.
Audience Question: You talked a lot about some of the tangible things you need to rebuild in Liberia. I was curious if you have any more reflections on the value of hope, as an intangible that makes a lot of the other tangible things possible?
Sirleaf: You know, I think the intangibles sometimes have much more impact on the responses that one needs to create consensus. When people lose hope, they don't think the future is going to make any difference. They become very cynical, very critical, lack confidence in anything that they see. They look for the hidden agenda. Over the years, no one responded, no one delivered, there was no one they could count on.
That to is so important and that is what we are trying to turn around in Liberia. We say to people: "There is a future. In this future, you have a part to play; you are important stakeholder in this.
That hope comes, first of all, with the change of the status quo that happens with an election. But it does not last unless you can build on it. Right now, we have that hope and that expectation, and that is why I say that delivering has such urgency. It is what turns that hope into action; it is what turns that hope into consensus; it turns that hope into cooperation. That is where we are right now.
Woodruff: Are the people hopeful at this point? How do you measure that?
Sirleaf: We measure it by what they say, what they do, and how they act. Those who now go out and get a job, and they take that job and turn it into something constructive – whether it is trying to rebuild their homes with their meager income or trying to find business opportunities. They now have confidence that they will not be repressed – that the police won't come and destroy whatever they are trying to do.
For us that is very important, because, too many times in our history, people have tried to rebuild, only to find it destroyed again – another wave of rebel activity or another wave of wars and conflict. The hope now is that peace is here and that, finally, this peace is probably sustainable. Now we can start to think about what we can do to reorder our lives to think about the future.
That hope is there now. Our challenge is to keep it there and consolidate it.
Audience Question: I would like to go back to the education sector for a moment and ask for your thoughts on the MDGs in terms of universal elementary education. Is Liberia likely to be on target for achieving that and do you think it is the best measure of success for Liberia?
Woodruff: That's the Millennium Development Goals [adopted by the United Nations as a set of targets for reducing extreme poverty worldwide].
Sirleaf: We are way behind in meeting the MDGs. Whether we are dealing with poverty reduction or [school] enrollment, we are way behind. We are now trying to catch up, and much of our poverty reduction strategy is tied into the MDGs. With our best effort, I doubt we will meet all of those goals as currently structured by the target date 2015.
Enrollment – I think we will come close. Poverty, some of the others, we may not. Is it possible that we could make it in the time that we have left? If we are lucky, and all of the programs we have take root and move at an accelerated pace. We want to be cautious, and realize that it is a big task.
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Audience Question: I appreciate your highlighting the plight of child labor. I was wondering how your administration looks at not only having enough facilities but making education relevant to those families that are dealing with poverty on a daily basis – making it attractive enough for those families to opt to send their children to school and not into the labor market?
Sirleaf: The problem with the quality of education: a lot has to do with teachers. Many of the trained teachers have left the country. Many who have not left the country are not pursuing a teaching career, because the incentives are just not there compared to other areas. Much of it has to do with instructional materials. Many of the schools do not have proper libraries and laboratories.
That is what makes the task so difficult because it is not just the physical structure of the school, repairing the schools, but getting teachers, good teachers, getting well-paid teachers, and that is a long-term endeavor. All we can do is start the process and do as much as we can and set multiyear targets to improve the quality of education.
Woodruff: Are teachers who left the country coming back?
Sirleaf: A few. Our incentive system, our pay, not only for teachers, but also for all professionals is so low that it is difficult for us to get them to give up what they are doing now and make the sacrifice. Once we improve on the budget level to get our incentive-level up, our civil-servant pay up, we hope to attract them back. A few are coming.
Then we try to restore our teachers training colleges so we can train teachers. We need teaching assistants who need to go through a high-level of instruction to improve their own abilities. It takes awhile to do it.
Audience Question: Could you tell us a little bit about the mineral resources of Liberia, tangible resources.
Sirleaf: When I say we are rich – not poor – you want to know what I mean? We have got a lot of mineral resources. We are a traditional iron producing country. We are negotiating with the largest steel-producing company in the world. We have iron-ore mining; we have other deposits of iron-ore, diamonds, deposits of gold and other minerals; our forestry sector in Liberia represents the greatest area of biodiversity. Our forest cover is perhaps still the largest in west Africa.
We had sanctions put on us by the Security Council, but those sanctions have now been lifted with the new forestry law that will ensure benefits to the communities where the forests are located and ensure competitiveness to make sure the resources are used to help the people. We hope to go into valued-added activity, producing plywood and other types of wood.
As you know, we are on the ocean, so fishery is one of the traditional areas; before we were a major exporter. Today there fishing illegally in our waters by other countries; once we get that under control, we can promote a fishing industry.
In terms of other agriculture, Liberia is very rich. We are an exporter of coffee, cocoa, and other kinds of products. Of course, our farms have gone into a state of disrepair but we are trying to get that back.
We are part of the Guinea Gulf, and we are hoping that we are going to be one of those countries that has some oil, so we have done some studies that show that some places have the potential. Permits have already been given so people can start some exploration.
We have a wide range of things that could provide the means, so we can have a very aggressive development agenda.
Audience Question: Your successful election was a remarkable symbol for people all over the world and the values you stand for. I was wondering if you could talk for just a little bit about what was surprising in your campaign because for most of us, it seems like a remarkable victory.
Sirleaf: We had a strategy was tied to women. Here was an opportunity to mobilize Liberian women. Out time had come! In all the country's history there had never been a women president. Here is one time that we had one who was equal to the task by whatever measurement you use, including being involved in the political process.
Many people missed the fact that the ordinary market women, uneducated, caught on to the strategy, caught on to the idea that "I sit in the sun, I sit in the rain, and sell my goods, for one primary purpose – to educate my children." They saw somebody who had education and could make a difference. That was our theme in the runoff.
People missed the fact that it was not just popularity that carried us, but women's own view for what the future would hold for their children. What was surprising? The only surprising thing was that we did not get 85%; only 58%! [laughter, applause]
Woodruff: Thank you very much.
